Modern Vespa

Better give him a mountainbike, he will get stamina and develop good muscles and when he's 18 hand him the keys of a used Volvo.

Yes. I would make it a stipulation that he attended the Motorcycle Safety Training Program first.

I have two teenage daughters who ride scooters and a third that can't wait until she gets old enough to drive one. I trust them completely and continuously tell them that it is their responsibility to drive safely and watch out for other people, whether they are driving a car or a scooter...even more so on a scooter.

If your son wants to ride, then let him. You may also find that you & he may have some additional things to talk about!

My son is 21. If he were interested in riding a scooter now, I would say OK. But at 16, I think their driving experience is not enough. They just don't have good judgement.

My son had a driving job when he was 18. He totalled the company car making a left turn onto a busy road. Thank God no one was injured. He's a really great kid, top student, and smart. I know he wasn't being reckless, but it was just a lack of judgement on his part. If he had been on a scooter, or the car he hit had been a scooter instead, there would have been a serious injury, or worse.

I wouldn't give a 16 year old a GTS250 , but I'd quite happily buy a responsible kid something more suitable to start on - a 50cc is standard fare in the UK.

I'd want to set some rules about what will be their responsibility and what won't be , and would have some conditions that would mean it being taken off them if broken, but you also have to show trust and encourage them to be independent (within reason).

It should go without saying that I'd also sort out training so I could be sure that their riding is of a suitable standard before going off on their own.

Yes I would let him he sounds very sensible. 2nd Dan in a Karate shows that he could have a good idea when to GO & when to SLOW. Life is all about DOING stuff. He's gone through school & now let him grow.

A 250cc is nice bike in the UK at sixteen I don't think he would be able to ride that bike. But i guess you've been taking him round as a pillion a few times. Take him out for a pillion ride and point out your towns local dangers ie. Pot holes, white lines in the wet, loose road surface, bad junctions etc. If he listens and ask questions then be happy for him. If he just goes round saying yes dad I know that and that, then I'd say yes but ride out with him a few times. JUST NEVER JUDGE HIM ON HIS RIDING SKILLS, we have to learn.

Good luck

To giving him some freedom, absolutely! Hopefully he's had some before this point via a bicycle or even walking.

I actually think everyone should have to start on a 125-150 for a year before moving to a larger bike.

175 more info about your son's HT and WT is helpful but i still think a beater 50cc to practice on would be a good thing. Then move to a 150. I'd keep the 50cc to ride myself. I like them. I'm assuming he hasn't been on a motorized 2 wheeler before. While i haven't had kids i was an only child who was taught the rules and took classes on everything. I was behind wheels on everything also. Lived in the country and grew up in the 60's. Not as many people back then and times were different. My parents were protective but allowed me my freedom but i was still a kid. My dad sent me to Lime Rock raceway for a defensive driving class when i was 16 (senior in HS) before i could get my drivers license. When i graduated from college at 20 i got a car for graduation. That winter we picked out a maroon camaro. It was delivered to me the day my dad was buried. I graduated a few weeks later and over the summer i "enjoyed" my car Took less than 3 months for me to get my license pulled for speeding I was taught about speed on highways in my class at Lime Rock but i still did it. I had the knowledge and the car to do the speed and i rationalized the fact that i could handle the car. Just a kid even at 20. Live and learn. It's a hard call but whatever you do know that you can only do so much. Every one of us has had to take what we were taught and apply it. Parents did their job the ownership was on us then.

I don't know if you are still reading the responses but I am a parent of an 18 yo and a 6 yo so I understand your pain and concerns.

I would have him take the MSF. Do not go with him, let him do this on his own. After the class, have a chat with your son and the rider coaches to determine where his comfort level is and then decide if he wants to ride a scooter at all. He may find, after taking the class, that this is something he doesn't want to do. If he is interested in riding, get him full gear and a 150cc learning bike. This will be enough to safely and confidently keep up with 99% of the traffic he is likely to encounter in SoCal. Do some rides with him until he is comfortable and confident. It may be better if you found a local club and ride with them so he's not always feeling the pressure from Dad and he can bounce some ideas of other riders.

After that, you need to trust him, whatever your decision. It doesn't matter whether he is riding a 150cc scooter or taking the family car to the football game, you have to trust that he will do the right thing.

Once he is out of your sight, he can do whatever he wants to do. We trust that he is going to the Friday night Varsity game but for all we know, he is over at this girlfriends enjoying a kegger party or a weekend with no parents. you never really know what they are doing.

I think the whole decision comes to your level of trust in your son and his ability to respect and keep your trust.

Jim, unfortunately your experience is quite different than mine. At 16 I had a terrible accident on a motorcycle and I wish my parents would have kept me from riding until I was really ready.

No need to cover my tracks. I will gladly scare him by showing him MY scars and tell him about the years of recuperation I went through.

Just as much could go wrong on a 50 being ridden carelessly in the burbs or the city. Two colleagues sons (different families) have come off their scooters in the last year, both going too quick on inner city streets. One got bumps and grazes, the other missed going under a bus by the length of his fingers.
Risk taking and showing off is part of growing up and becoming an adult. For some, that risk taking will involve drug taking, high risk sexual activity, violence, gambling, alcohol, drink-driving, speeding etc etc. (just spend a moring browsing YouTube).
I believe managing the risk by 'granting permission' is a great way forward. My dad let me sample scuba diving at 8 years of age. He let me do my PADI course at 14. I was night diving and doing underwater photography by 15 and joined the Navy at 16. These experiences fulfilled my tansition to manhood. Maybe that's why I never really indulged in other risk taking activites...except I didn't buy my first scooter until 42yrs.
I take my 10 yr old daughter to school on the back of my scoot every day and I am sure she will want to have her own scoot at around 16 yrs...what will I say? No - wait until you're 42! Nah, I will probably help her buy a good sized scoot and pay for Toreador Pants out of my wallet.
Yes, there is an element of risk and a whole lot of luck just to get through life - whatever way you choose to live it. Parental role modelling in the sensible management of risk is a good way forward IMO. You will know already whether the 250 is appropriate - the bigger question is whether to let him 'ride' at all; a question that confronts parents every day in many other contexts, not just scooters.
Good luck to you and your son.

I agree, why bring out the big guns all at once? You wouldn't hand him the keys to a ferrari right off the bat even if he took the driver's ed course and got straight A's. A 150cc is speed a plenty, and will keep him off the freeways for the most part. It's not as 'twitchy' on the throttle as the 250 and will allow him to develop those skills before he gets on the 'big kids' scoot.
He sounds like a nice young man, and I am sure that you are the best judge of how responsible he is. Best of luck. Expect him to drop it at least once, it's pretty much a given with your first scooter anyway.
My only caveat, and condition, for him riding would be Toreador Pants. No gear, no ride. So make sure he has appropriate gear and he uses it.

I do agree the Vespa GTS power should not be taken lightly it has a good amount of power. I think it looks so cute and innocent that most forget just how fast and quick to react it is. I seem to want him to ride but he lost interest when I put my foot down on the sports bike he asked his mother for. (GSXR 650 LOL, or a R1 ) I told them that they were crazy. I also told my wife if she gets him a sports bike to make it the BMW k1300s or the Ducati Street Fighter so when I take it away I'd have a nice bike.

It sounds like if he only wants to ride a suicyle as a first bike that he may need to cage for a while and build up some maturity. Sounds like he's playing her to get to you and such.

May I wish you all the luck...

I think all kids want hot and fast. I as his parent controls what he drives or rides. kids are funny you should see how much they hate my Yaris. I know the sports bike talk comes from all the other boys that were on the football team as far as I know none have gotten a Motorcycle or a scooter.

Yep, give it to him. Make him take the safety course, and ride with him at first to observe. I had a Honda 350 when I was 17. I had a couple of spills, but I'm still here! I didn't really wise up and grow a brain until I was in my late 20's, but I learned a lot riding and had a lot of fun

How to apply for a motorcycle or moped driver license if you are under 18

There are two classes of motorcycle licenses, Class M1 and Class M2.

With a Class M1, you can operate any 2-wheel motorcycle and any motorized vehicle in Class M2.

With a Class M2, you can only operate any motorized bicycle or moped or any bicycle with an attached motor.
Effective January 1, 2006, you may operate a motorized scooter with a Class M1 or M2 driver license. Prior to January 1, 2006, you must have a Class C or higher driver license to operate a motorized scooter.

A motorized scooter is defined as: A two-wheeled "device" powered by a motor with a floorboard that is designed to stand on when riding. The scooter may also have a driver's seat.

Refer to the Motorcycle Driver Handbook for more information.

To apply for a motorcycle Class M1 or M2 permit, you will need to:

Be at least 15 ½ years of age
Visit a DMV office (make an Appointment(s) for faster service)
Complete application form DL 44 (An original DL 44 form must be submitted. Copies obtained by Xeroxing, faxing, or other methods will not be accepted.)
Have your parents' or guardians' signatures on the application form DL 44
Give a thumb print
Have your picture taken
Submit proof you have completed both driving education and driver training. (DL 387, DL 388, DL 388A, OL 237, or OL 238)
Present an acceptable birth date/legal presence document.
Provide your true full name.
Provide your social security number. It will be verified with the Social Security Administration while you are in the office.
Pay the application fee. This fee is good for 12 months and allows you to take the appropriate law test(s) and skills test three times, if needed, within the 12 month period. This fee pays for both the instruction permit and driver license, if you qualify within that time period. If the application expires, it becomes void and all steps must be completed again.
Pass an vision exam.
Pass a traffic laws and signs test.
Pass an additional law test of motorcycle driving rules.
OR
Show your California driver license, if you have one issued to you.
Pay the application fee
Pass a vision exam
Pass a traffic laws and signs test for motorcycles
Note: To allow you sufficient time for testing DMV will not be administering written or audio exams after 4:30 p.m.

After studying both the California Driver and the Motorcycle Handbooks, call your local DMV to schedule your Appointment(s) for the traffic laws and sign test.


After completing the requirements, you will be issued an instruction permit to allow you to practice driving a motorcycle. You may not drive at night, on the freeway, or have any passengers with you.

To apply for your motorcycle driver license, you must:

Be at least 16 years old
Have had your permit for 6 months
Have completed driver education and driver training or have your California driver license.
Complete a motorcycle rider training course given by the California Highway Patrol (CHP). All persons under 21 are required to complete the course.
Submit the CHP completion certificate (You will not be required to take the motorcycle driving test at DMV.)
For information about the CHP training course, please call 1-877-743-3411 or visit www.ca-msp.org.

I am not a parent but I do remember when I was 16. I got good grades, played video games, but not athletic.
I got a car when I was 16 because I needed to run lots of errands.
Living in SoCal, I don't think the roads are too bad during the day. Your son probably shouldn't ride during the night and no freeways or lane splitting (even though he can).
Since I don't know his weight or height but since he plays football, he probably could use a 250.
How do you feel about him riding 2 up with friends (or girls)? I think that is something to think about.
Just my 2 cents.

I posted the same question on a different forum.
The concensus there was a 150cc or lower to start.

My BF's 16 year old son wants to ride, so we let him ride papillion first. (pillion, sorry long friday!)
Now he is scheduled for his MSF course next weekend.

He thinks we are buying him a Ninja 250cc.

Even I didn't start riding scooters on a 250cc.

We will start off with a 150cc, IF he passes his class. And he will only be able to ride with us.

Freedom like riding is should not just be handed to you because you are 16 and you want it. A 16 year old cannot possibly understand all the unwritten rules of the road. These are the rules you learn only through experience on the road, not in JV football, sports or any other venue.

The road is a harsh teacher and sometimes one mistake is all it takes.

You all just saw the post by Brichez, a 16 year old girl who went down and displayed her road rash. Well she was pretty lucky. It could have been much worse.

Can you promise that your son will not EVER try to show off in front of his friends or a girl? Can you assure everyone on the road, that he won't become speedy mcspeed demon? I see kids on crotch rockets cutting in and out of traffic. Yeah they can ride, but dang they are dangerous as heck.

So I say, MSF, and rides only with you on a 150cc for at least a year. That is my advice.

I will let you know what happens with our little guy.

I'm on the other side where my son won't ride on my scooter with me. He is deathly afraid of the traffic around us so it is a no deal with him. He just turned 15 and is now in drivers education at high school. He will get his learners permit this year then has to drive 75 hours with me or mom before he can get his regular drivers license. Then in Illinois you have to drive 1 year before you can get the motorcycle endorsement. It would be nice if he did want to ride with us, on his own scooter when he is old enough, so we can go out as a family, but again, he won't ride, or even drive, so him getting a scooter or motorcycle won't be an issue at our house.

I would say "no" and here's why.

At 16 he has no, or very little, hands on experience driving a powered vehicle, be it 4 wheels or 2 wheels. In other words, he doesn't know what he doesn't know. The MSF is good, but a part time 3 day course isn't "experience", its simply the beginning of experience. Look up the literature on maturity, brain development and accident rates for 16 year old males. The only one on the road more dangerous to himself and others than your son is an 85 year old driver.

Look, I bought my LX 150 at age 56, to begin riding, seriously, for the first time. The dealer, Washington Vespa, expressly said don't get the GTS 250, wait a few years, get some experience and then "move up" if you are so inclined. After several years and several thousands of miles, I'm beginning to feel comfortable and that comes after a lifetime of driving cars all over the U.S. Putting a 16 year old on a 250 is a recipe for disaster.

Sad note. Last summer one of the lifeguards at our community pool was killed in a scooter accident. He was 16 and his parents bought him the scooter to get around town and reasoned it would be cheaper than a car. I don't know if he was a fault, but the accident happened on a heavily traveled road, and he and his rider were struck by a car.

Ride with your son two up, let him drive 4 wheels for a while to see if he has the maturity and perception to handle that. There is plenty of time before the 2 wheel riding starts.

I'm glad that you are so amused with those of us who think this is a bad idea. I'm also very glad that nothing untoward happened to you in you younger days or to your kids. Statistically, you were friggin' lucky. That doesn't mean those who counsel caution are cowardly -- we just have a different point of view based upon our own experience and those of others.

Thanks for re-inforcing my point.

Wow. I don't always agree with jimc, and I think he likes it that way, but I am totally with him on this one. I mean, the way most of your naysayers are talking, it's a wonder you are able to get the nerve to even ride your own damn bikes. The guy said he was gonna make the kid take the MSF and a 250 is hardly a beast. It is probably still tamer than the most starter motorcycles (like 150s). Lastly, this has been discussed to death already, but risk is risk, and a scooter, a car, a ten speed--even walking is a risk. A parent should be able to asses his own kid better than any instructor, and I think he will. Geesh, scooters are supposed to be fun, right?

My 16 year old rides my 50cc a bit, and I'm taking him for his motorcycle permit next week, and then motorcycle safety course. THEN we'll figure out what kind of bike he can handle.

Your son sounds just like mine, right down to the gaming system!

He may prefer just pillion.

An R1 huh? A $12K motorcycle as a first bike? how much was that yaris?

I change my position. Make him come up with the cash for the bike. Support him getting a bike but make him work for it. You can fork over the cash for riding gear.

That said, I think we each take our own experience, good or bad, and inflate it's importance. I have no kids and don't see that changing so my advice on parenting may not be well founded. But if he gets the R1 I'd love to ride with him on my smallest scooter.

I think the bottom line is that you know your kid better than anyone...You ride, so you know the risks and the rewards. I have a 16 year old who is a good kid, but her hobbies include not paying attention and breaking things. I know for a fact she is not ready for a scoot. Your boy sounds like a good kid...let him roll if you think he is ready.

I'm a relatively new rider and the thing you never realize is how much you learn from actually driving a car for years before you start riding a scooter.

I've been in a ton of scrapes. fender benders. speeding tickets and near misses.

Like everyone by 30.

You become a cautious cat.

Keep that in mind. Your son might be the most mature teen in your eyes and agile as a cat (he sounds bigger than a cat)... he still lacks this experience b/c he's 16.

I'm a way better rider because of life experience and I still get surprised a ton.

250 cc sounds kinda potent.
I'd go with 150 cc first.
Let him get a feel.

I do agree with the use of a smaller engine to start of with, thats why they made it a law over here in Blighty.

Tough call, dad..

When I was 16 or 17, to my utter shock, my parent's allowed me to ride my older brother's mostly unused Bridgestone 175cc bike (his girlfriend wouldn't go near the thing). My mom was not happy, but my dad insisted.

Expecting me to be responsible and use the motorcycle wisely was way more profound than riding. A high point of my teenage years, I felt trusted and respected as an adult really for the first time. It was up to me to prove that I deserved it. Not a spill in the two years (of course, my brother would have skinned me alive if I brought it home scratched up or dented - now that was additional incentive!). Worst moment was going too fast on a downhill curve and had to widen my turn over someone's lawn. Could'a been bad, I was lucky. I was way more careful after that.

I don't know that I would have made the same call for my son when he as still in high school. Now older and living in Georgia, he's been talking about a small motorcycle or scooter, but it wasn't until I purchased my ET4 in July that he got the bug. Just put a downpayment on a new People 150. I'm fully encouraging it, but yes, it's making me very nervous and he's 23!

I do agree with you 100% I was never given a car or motorcycle. yes an R1 I LMAO, when he told me that. Its looking more like he'll end up with the Yaris because its cheap and safer. I will still have him do MSF Class if he likes

Tough call. Sometimes, however, you can push them a little too far a little too fast. Think on it. It'll come to ya.

I'm sort of in the same boat. I have a 16 year old daughter who was born about 30 and has grown up considerably since then. She is wanting to learn to ride, and can get her learner's 6 months before she turns 17. She was told that she had to learn to drive and drive for 6 months accident and citation free before she can get the learner's. Honestly, she isn't the most confident driver right now, but she is getting better every day. She is taking the MSF this fall and we will probably buy her a scooter next spring. We live rural mtns, so it will be a larger displacement so that she can get where we go. We have also discussed that there will be no small period of time(we're talking months at least, maybe longer) where we ride with her to allow us time to evaluate her riding before we send her out in the wider world. That said, I feel strongly that past that point I will have to accept that this is my fear, and definitely her choice to make. It scares me to death, but I guess that is my issue, not hers.

Scott&Nelli
> Tough call, dad..

100%

Mine is still a few years away from that, but that day will come soon enough.

If she tends towards a cage then cool, if she tends towards 2 wheels then (I say she cause mine is a she ) ...

Make her do the MSF/CBT, ride with her a bit too ( and not just sunday school type riding, this is important) let her see how you ride. Get her all the gear. Plonk her in front of the computer, let her read all the forums so she can learn the variety of ways she can become a cropper ( not just Dad talking )

That said, I would prefer that she spent a few years with a cage so that she learnt the basics of roadcraft and experienced the degree of f**kwittery out there while kinda safe.

We love them but we cannot wrap them up in cotton wool, despite how much we want to. They need their independence, prepare them as best we can.

And keep our fingers crossed