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update: simple video shows function here

Thanks to JimC and Guy (Techguy9707) who helped me along all the way, I was able to finish a project that looked like a nightmare in acts one and two but had a happy ending.
This is just about act 3 now: parts and installation.

The goal was to use the existing front turn signal lights (TSL) and convert them into both, running lights (RL), and turn signal lights. It takes two relays and two load resistors to do that. You can either purchase separate relays, or follow Guy's suggestion and get a Hoppy 48845, which internally connects the RL and TSL and provides the relay function. See wiring diagram for the NAPA part number, that's where I found it. It cost me $15.

For the load resistors, I used 5.6ohm 10W shunts, for $2.

For the installation, I chose to tap into the alarm connector for the input side. The connector is located behind the left knee pad.

Let's the pictures do the talking now:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
In the beginning, there was chaos. This is the Hoppy with the full wiring. Most of that will go as it is not needed.
The input side is the one with five wires (on the right). See diagram for details.


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
This is how I integrated the two load resistors. They are necessary to prevent the blinker to go into fast mode, thinking there is a blown bulb. Note that the ground connection goes to the white (ground) wire on the output side for streamlined wiring. The connections are made with splicer taps.


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
The connections of the input side: all are tapping into the shown alarm connector.
Because I already had some wires going in, I spliced directly into the wires for ground and +12V. The two TSL contacts (yellow and green) are going into the connector (soldered ends).


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
This is how I wired it. You will see that for output, I only need two wires, yellow and green, and I crimp-connected those to the wires going to the TSL. Note that the (black) ground wires remain untouched, and the + wires for TSL need to be cut and not reconnected.


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Ta-Daa! Running lights always on, and the TS switch will determine which of the two will go into pulse mode, to indicate your turn. I trust that this solution is bright enough (10W) to be seen at daylight, and the way I exposed this picture proves that point.

FTR, the center horn cast light is a 5 SMD-LED lamp (bluish white)

For tools, I used the obvious (whomever will attempt this project will know what they need), but I want to point out that I also needed a fly squatter. Pesky, pesky, pesky, and not good when you're leaning into the scoot, juggling wires and electricity
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I like it, a lot. Can you tell me something, the indicator light that you activate, does it blink brighter or just go off and on while the other one stays on?
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It just goes off and on, not brighter. That would require a two-filament bulb which was act one or two, I forget.

The way it is now, it is quite conspicuous, at day and at night (as I found out when I closed the garage )
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I am glad it all worked out for you and I could help you.

If anyone else is doing this, the resistors were only added as the ECU requires them. You may not need them in other model scooters.

In the matter of complete information, the Hoppy is the product name of this series of controllers as given by Hopkins. It was a convenient nickname for the controller. There are other controls that this company makes if you cannot find this exact controller but it may require some different connections. http://www.hopkinstowingsolutions.com/products/basic_wiring/taillight_converters/standard_converters/tail_light_converter_12.html

In my Kymco scooter, this mod was added directly after the blinker relay and makes the turn signals, front and rear, run solid and blink during turn signals. I did replace my turn signal relay with a 'no-load', LED-compatible Tridon relay from the local car parts store. You know you need the new relay if the blinkers either will not blink or blink at the wrong speed. I know in CA, that my amber turn signals being used as running lamps and showing a steady amber to the rear may not be completely legal. I am willing to run the risk of a fix-it ticket to have the safety benefit of two running lamps to the rear. If you would like to do similar, you may be able to get bulbs that show red even with an amber lens or get lens paint and paint the amber lens red

As an aside, do the resistors generate heat? If so, attaching them to the controller may not be optimal.


External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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windbreaker wrote:
It just goes off and on, not brighter. That would require a two-filament bulb which was act one or two, I forget.

The way it is now, it is quite conspicuous, at day and at night (as I found out when I closed the garage )
Excellent outcome and solution. That is a mod that I would consider for the future on my Super. 8)
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Thanks for the additional information, Guy.

Any resistor, if powered, will create heat, and these are no different. However, with just pulses and never for a long time, they are doing fine, and I mounted them on their little "feet", so they don't have direct contact with the converter over the full length. There is air between them. If you look closely enough at the second and third picture, you will see those feet.
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Well done, you got there in the end.
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That's awesome!! I'll have to try that myself sometime. Sounds like not much more work than using the dual-bulb signal housings, and a lot less cost. Only issue I would have is that I've already used the alarm connector for an actual Piaggio alarm. Would there be any other convenient place to get power? I've also already used a connector on the horncast light for the Motorsports 12v power socket.
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Witch,
Those blue splice taps will get you all the connections you need, from under the alarm plug. You might have to remove some of the electric tape wrapping the wires, to make room for the splicers, but it should work.
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Nice. Are you going to do the rear lights also?
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I think you'll find the rear turn signals do the same as the front ones...
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No rear running lights. I feel my normal tail light is very bright and conspicuous, so I don't feel I need running lights in the back. I do have a tail light modulator (or whatever that's called), though. It flashes four times before it goes into solid ON.

The reason why I want running lights in the front is that I learned of their importance for letting cagers gauge my speed (they need horizontally separated lights for that--see Hough's article on that here and here.
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I did a simple video (sorry, I'm a still photography kind of guy) and just uploaded it to youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvJ6bWQrcjY.
It will show how the turn signals work in unison with the DRL.
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This is response to the comment that the tail lamps would do the same as the front bulbs.

If you wanted them to act in the same way, you could do the splices further up in the wiring harness before the front and rear light wiring splits. With an ECU, you may need to adjust the resistors to accommodate the change in load.

One other side effect or benefit is that if you wanted to change the turn signals to LED bulbs, you should be able to do so without any other changes,
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TechGuy9707 wrote:
One other side effect or benefit is that if you wanted to change the turn signals to LED bulbs, you should be able to do so without any other changes,
LED bulbs very often don't work well in a lens-type lamp housing (meaning, with an internal reflector). If a bulb doesn't have the light source at the right spot, it is out of focus and the reflector remains more or less dark.

I had to almost fully pull out and rotate to a certain position my horn cast LED to get a decent reflection. Aftermarket LED applications in an incandescent environment simply suck (as do Xenon bulbs that are not designed for an existing reflector, or vice versa).
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DoeS the hoppy make an audible clicking sound that can be heard at speed? Thx. Miguel
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Miguel wrote:
DoeS the hoppy make an audible clicking sound that can be heard at speed? Thx. Miguel
don't you wish Laughing emoticon

no, they are electronic, not mechanical relays, and therefore silent.

You could devise a setup with regular relays, mounted on a spruce soundboard, and you might then hear it--or get in the habit to null your TS switch after every turn
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windbreaker wrote:
Miguel wrote:
DoeS the hoppy make an audible clicking sound that can be heard at speed? Thx. Miguel
don't you wish Laughing emoticon

no, they are electronic, not mechanical relays, and therefore silent.

You could devise a setup with regular relays, mounted on a spruce soundboard, and you might then hear it--or get in the habit to null your TS switch after every turn
I've tried a number of relays. None have been loud enough to hear at speed, most you can't hear even at idle. I don't care for the buizzers tho I've installed one till I can find the right relay. Thx.
Miguel
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Oops, just discovered a little surprise: my clock reads 21:something, and my temp gauge is back to F when I had it set to C.

The installation must have hicced-up the ECU some, but now the clock is counting from there and temp is shown (in F). It probably reset to default.

I'll get it back to my settings and will see if it stays there from then on. (Ugh, how do you set that clock again?)
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Duh, and duh!

First one: I remembered that I had taken out all fuses to check them. No wonder the clock and temp gauge reset.

Second duh. Is it because of or in spite of (which I hope) my new lights: twice, today, I was cut off by cars merging into my lane from an opposite side street. They must have had plenty of opportunity to see me, but obviously didn't. One came from church , the other one was too concerned about her hairdo Headache emoticon

Hmmmmm
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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Will this work on an LX50?
Will this modification work on an LX 50? I wanted to change to Euro turn signals and loose those silly pods.
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An LX50-cognizant member needs to answer that question. I'm sorry, I am not familiar with the inner workings of that model.
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I don't know either but I assume that bike does not have the ECU that was discussed in this thread. Which means that it may be pretty easy.

I think the biggest issue is if the fixtures in the front fairing actually have bulb sockets or can be made to accommodate a socket and bulb retro fit.

The wiring should be pretty straight forward. I don't know how the blinkers actually work (ie... electronics, conventional load-required blinker relay...) on this scoot.
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TechGuy9707 wrote:
This is response to the comment that the tail lamps would do the same as the front bulbs.

If you wanted them to act in the same way, you could do the splices further up in the wiring harness before the front and rear light wiring splits...
But the front and rear lights are in parallel. What you put to one you put to the other. Doesn't matter where the splice or the split is - wire is wire.
Jim, you agree?
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Diodes can help here. Just make sure they are Shottky diodes of a suitable current capability.
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Cincinnati John wrote:
TechGuy9707 wrote:
This is response to the comment that the tail lamps would do the same as the front bulbs.

If you wanted them to act in the same way, you could do the splices further up in the wiring harness before the front and rear light wiring splits...
But the front and rear lights are in parallel. What you put to one you put to the other. Doesn't matter where the splice or the split is - wire is wire.
Jim, you agree?
CinciJohn, Not sure but I think at one point the wire splits into two paths, one going to the front light, one going to the back. My guess is that the OP tied into the sire going only to the front light.

Dont' know which bike you have but I think that the GTS and GTV (which I have) are wired slightly differently. Evidently, the GTS turn signal power comes from the ECU (or so I've read) but on the GTV, the power definitely comes from a relay behind the left kneepad like a turn signal relay like a car.
Best
Miguel
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Not to belabor the point, but if two loads are connected in parallel, a voltage applied across one load will also appear across the other load - no matter where along the conductors the voltage is applied. Wire will carry current as readily in one direction as in the other.

On the GTS, the turn signal power is supplied by the instrument cluster.

Jim, back me up buddy...
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Nice Install
Ilo,

Nice install. Also, I like your 5 white LED horn light. I'm glad you got the running lights working.

Best Regards,
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Thanks, Darren.

Just FYI, ILO is my scooter's name. It stands for
In Lieu Of snowmobiles, personal water crafts, ATVs, and other nuisances.
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windbreaker wrote:
Thanks, Darren.

Just FYI, ILO is my scooter's name. It stands for
In Lieu Of snowmobiles, personal water crafts, ATVs, and other nuisances.
Sorry, I didnt read your signature thoroughly.
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Very nicely done.
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Cincinnati John wrote:
Not to belabor the point, but if two loads are connected in parallel, a voltage applied across one load will also appear across the other load - no matter where along the conductors the voltage is applied. Wire will carry current as readily in one direction as in the other.

On the GTS, the turn signal power is supplied by the instrument cluster.

Jim, back me up buddy...
Yup, got that. But I think the running light arrangement is only on the front lights after the front/rear wiring split but I'm only guessing. Hopefully the original poster will reply. I'm curious myself.
Best
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windbreaker wrote:
TechGuy9707 wrote:
One other side effect or benefit is that if you wanted to change the turn signals to LED bulbs, you should be able to do so without any other changes,
LED bulbs very often don't work well in a lens-type lamp housing (meaning, with an internal reflector). If a bulb doesn't have the light source at the right spot, it is out of focus and the reflector remains more or less dark.

I had to almost fully pull out and rotate to a certain position my horn cast LED to get a decent reflection. Aftermarket LED applications in an incandescent environment simply suck (as do Xenon bulbs that are not designed for an existing reflector, or vice versa).
What your discussing about Led's not working so well with the reflectors are caused by getting the wrong led's to begin with.If you get the led's with the side firing lights,that will take care of the problem.Get yourself the led's with the added side firing lights and you will see a big difference over stock bulbs.
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Scootover wrote:
Get yourself the led's with the added side firing lights and you will see a big difference over stock bulbs.
Scootover over - Have a reference for the side firing LEDs?
THx.
Miguel
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This is what I used for my front and rear running lights. They are sufficient lighting.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/WLED-xHP5.htm

Best Regards,
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I might have to give that a try...
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To answer a few questions that came up:

I did not test what the rear lights would do without splitting the front lights' wiring. Looking at the electrical diagram, they might be connected. I would not want all that amperage being drawn constantly, though, and the rear running lights are not necessary, IMHO, to increase safety. The front ones may actually help.

As you can tell, I'm not so much for looks, more for function. YMMV.

For LEDs, I used that WLED XHP5 bulb. It would only give a decent light output forward when I pulled the lamp holder almost completely out of its socket. Since that is soft plastic and is tight enough, I hope it will hold. Pushed all the way in, as it is supposed to be, the light output sucks.
Also, keep in mind, these LED bulbs are quite expensive. Two of them (amber ones) died right away and I had to return them (got a refund).
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Great job. Your post and the Euro conversion post gave me the inspiration to mod my LX150 to have cool running lights in the front.

Still looking for a way to turn my rears into running lights with the color combination I want.
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Ossessionato
Kymco P250 Now, P200E in the 80's
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Posts: 3908
Location: Antelope, CA, USA
 
Ossessionato
@techguy avatar
Kymco P250 Now, P200E in the 80's
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3908
Location: Antelope, CA, USA
UTC quote
wrecks wrote:
Great job. Your post and the Euro conversion post gave me the inspiration to mod my LX150 to have cool running lights in the front.

Still looking for a way to turn my rears into running lights with the color combination I want.
What color combination do you want in the back? They do make lens paint to change the color of the lenses but I am sure some of it has to do with what colors you start with.
@wrecks avatar
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Hooked
Vespa LX 150 '09 Graphite Black
Joined: UTC
Posts: 231
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
 
Hooked
@wrecks avatar
Vespa LX 150 '09 Graphite Black
Joined: UTC
Posts: 231
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
UTC quote
TechGuy9707 wrote:
wrecks wrote:
Great job. Your post and the Euro conversion post gave me the inspiration to mod my LX150 to have cool running lights in the front.

Still looking for a way to turn my rears into running lights with the color combination I want.
What color combination do you want in the back? They do make lens paint to change the color of the lenses but I am sure some of it has to do with what colors you start with.
I want the rear signal pods lens to remain clear. I want the bulbs or leds illuminate red for the running lights. Then when I blinker, I want them to shut off and the leds or bulb to illuminate bright amber.

Sorta of what we did here
Euro Turn Signal Kit Installation on Vespa LX150 (Video)

Problem is they do not make red/amber 1157 led in that color combination. So it looks like, I will probably have to get a red 6cm LED strip and glue or use double side tape in the reflectors.... and a couple relays. Not really motivated to do that right now.

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