Modern Vespa

I did a search and couldnt really find a straight answer on this one.

What is the average tire life for Vespas?
I read that the rear tire wears faster than the front, is rotating out of the question?
being a Vespa Newbie Im guessing I need to change how I think about my new mode of trasportation, no more tire rotations or chassis lubes.

thanks guys/gals

Not sure about the 250 but in general a front will last 2-3 times the distance of the rear. Depends on how hard your corner and stop. I'm still on my original front on the 125 at 12000km and on my third rear.

The front tyre is more important as when it lets go its more often than not catastrophic. You can often recover from a little slide with the rear wheel. Hence putting the worn out rear onto the front is a bad idea.

wear also depends very much on the brand of tyre - Pirelli GTS (which come as stock with the new GTS) wear out very quickly. Heidenaus have been reported to last up to three times as long. Cheap and nasty tyres made of slippery hard rubber (like the awful 'vee rubber' tyre that graced the front wheel of one of my ET4s for over three years) seem to last forever without wearing out.

ok good to know, guess I forgot that most of the grabbing force is placed on the front tire.
Are there a lot of choices for scooter tires? or just a select few?
can you tell me too, is there a difference in size from front to back on any of the vespas?

there are a lot of choices, but a few seem generally preferred by members here... i'll list the ones i can remember but you may want to do a search under 'tires' to see what else you can find:

pirelli diablo
pirelli gts (grippy but wear out quickly)
michelin pilot sport
michelin pilot city
heidenau k61
heidenau k66

Don't rotate your tires on your GTS. The front and rear are different sizes. 120/70 12" front and 130/70 12" rear are what come with the GTS.

My rear tire, the OEM Sava, lasted me about 9000 km on my GTS I believe. However, my replacement tire a Pirelli only lasted about 6000 km.

awesome. thank you

1. Don't rotate your tires, the 120 width front is too small to put on the rear.

2. OEM Sava tires: Rear wore down to TWI (Tread wear indicators) at 5,700 miles. Front looked fine, but I replaced with premium Heidenau K66s at both ends at that time.

3. Heidenau K66--4,300 miles so far. Front looks brand new, rear measures about halfway down on tread (Started at 3/16 to TWI, now at about 3/32). I'll estimate 12,000+ for the front, maybe 7,000 for the rear.

This means 1 rear per year for me, 1 front every 2-1/2 to 3 years. I don't like it, but it isn't really that bad in the general scope of things.

P.

Bridgestone 'Hoop' on the back if you want a tyre that lasts a long time....

Michelin Pilot Sport is a very good road holding tyre

running the bike with slightly too low pressure on the rear will kill your tyre fast - so check it all the time.

Wow i just looked up the Pilot tire, and that is a really good looking tire!

I phoned the tech department at Pirelli USA, and asked about the Diablo tires for the GTS 250. The man said that they were not recommended for use (by Piaggio), and would not give me a reason why.

My Diablo rear has been wonderful. I wonder if the Pirelli guy meant they aren't fitted as standard equipment- the Pirelli GTS 23/24 are.


Harvey

So far I'm quite pleased with my Pirelli GTS tires. They are grippy in both dry and wet conditions. We'll how long they last though, given their relatively soft rubber I'm hoping for 6000 kms on the rear but with the way I ride they'll probably last 4-5000 kms.

I've been wondering the same thing about tire brands.

Being a former motorcycle owner I'm wondering if you have to use the same brand on the front & rear like my bike. My thinking is this applies to all 2 wheeled vehicles

You don't have to use the same brand front/back. However there are quite a lot of rules and regulations - and these can vary according to jurisdiction - but essentially (for motorcycles) these apply just about everywhere:

If a radial tyre is on the front, the rear must be a radial as well.
A tyre designed for the front must not be used on the rear.
A rear tyre can be used on the front, but mount for reverse rotation.

Front tyres are under most stress under braking, rears on acceleration.

Similar tread patterns seem to be more important. The LX, for instance, has an odd 11" front tire size. Only 4 or 5 options available and some of the more popular tires (Michelin Pilot Sport, Conti Zippy) don't come in this size.

I've been raving about these since I first got 'em and still love them: Heidenau K61. There are a couple threads here with mash notes to these tires.

Front tires last about twice as long on the GTS vs the rear.
My rears have lasted between 4,500 and over 6000 miles, depending on tire model (and probably riding style during that phase).

Front tires require a different tread design than rear tires, and they are of a different size (recommended 120 front, 130 rear).

If a specific tire is not recommended by Piaggio, this generally means they have not tested it. A difference would be if a specific tire is discouraged or even strongly recommended NOT to use.

To get to personal opinions, I now prefer the Pirelli GTS23 for front and strongly discourage the Michelin PS for front (it introduced the wobble on my GTS).
For rears, I like the Zippy1 and the Pirelli Diablo. Between the two, the Diablo is preferred for its higher speed rating and the Zippy for its slightly better grip. I have also tried Michelin PS and the stock Sava. Both will not get back onto any of my rims! I have not tried the Heidenaus and might give the 61 a try, if the positive reviews persist.

The main reason is because Pirelli does not make the tire in a 120/70-12 size with a front style tread pattern. I am running identical tires front and rear, the Diablo 130/70-12 with the rear tread pattern. I love the tires and I push my bike to the limits, but I may switch back to a more rain friendly front tread come wintertime.

Did you reverse mount the one in the front? If not, next time you change it you might consider this. Then the stresses of braking will be acting on the walls in the way they were designed to take. Plus in some areas (in the UK for one) it's mandatory when a rear tyre is mounted on the front.

Isn't the front tire exposed to the same directional forces under braking as the rear tire?

Under strong braking the rear tyre has almost no force on it at all! The rear is designed to put the acceleration forces on the road (so to speak) - strong braking puts forces in the opposite direction on the front tyre.

Makes sense (for a powerful MC). In our case, I'd guess that the braking forces are much higher on the rear than the acceleration. I haven't tried this but I believe I could stop from 60 to zero quicker than accelerate 0 - 60, using just the rear brake. I might be wrong, though?

I did indeed, Jim! In fact, on many other tires I've seen, there are two rotation arrows, one indicating drive wheel direction, and an opposing arrow for front wheel mounting.

Hello Tomorrowmatters
You have me slightly confused... as your asking about tires for a GTS250, but you list an LX150 under your avitar?? Are you like me, and have both? If so that is 4 different tires you will need when ever they wear out.

The main reason you can not find anything concrete about how long a tire wears is because there are too many factors that come into play. Your wieght, your riding style, the roads your ride on, as in how much are twisty and how much are straights; road conditions come into play, as does how much stop and go traffic riding you do. You will get more life out of a tire, if you have about 60% to 80% curving roads as apposed to straight streets. Most if not all motorcycle and scooter tires wear out on the center of the tread, while there is still lots of life on the edges. The only people who wear out the edges of their cycle tires are the ones who race on a track.
You could have two identical scoots, that ride the same roads all the time, with the same tires, and one will wear out faster than the other. It all depends on the variables of rider and style of riding. How far you push the tire's wear life is another. Some will change as soon as the tread hits the wear bar, others.. Like me ride a bit longer on a given tire.
I have changed the rear tire on my LX150 3 times now, and have a total of 8995 miles on the scoot. The original front is still on it, but getting close. In all fairnes, I had a puncture on the 2nd rear tire, and could not get a plug to stay in, even heavyly glued down.
I have not changed the tires on the GTS250 yet as they only have around 2,000 on them and they look fine. But I do have a new set of Heidenau K61's just waiting. When the rear wears out, I will change just the rear, probably 2 or 3 times before that stock front is ready.
So to sum it all up, tire milage varies too much to give a solid answer to anyone. Just keep them inflated properly (remember to put more air in if your going to ride 2 up, and to let it out before you ride single again) and decide when it is wore down too much for you to feel safe.

To the original poster, whose question looks not to have been fully answered, you cannot rotate the tires on your LX, because your wheels are two different sizes. Average rear tire life on a 150 will be somewhere in the 4000 mile range, depending on a multitude of variables. Your front tire should last for 9000 miles or so.

As far as tire choices for the LX, Heidenau K61's are my first choice, but the more commonly found Michelin Pilot City is also very good. I do not like the Pirelli SL38 Unico, one of the stock tire choices for the LX. The tread tends to wear oddly, causing severe cupping in the front.

Ahh, I, too, was referencing the model listed on the OP's profile. I forgot the thread title indicated the 250's.

I have had the stock Sava's...they were good for what they were...the front tires, however, had a bump that popped up all around the diameter of the tire in the center which made them ride terrible up until I could replace them. I am now running Continental Zippy's front and rear....120/7012's on front (standard size) and on the rear, the Continental Zippy in a 140/7012...the 140's in Zippy tires are not real common but give a much wider profile than even when I had a Michelin Pilot City of the same 140/7012 on the rear...more rubber on the ground is always better for me. Not sure about the wet handling as I don't ride in the rain but here in Florida, where it is hotter than hell, they stick pretty darn good to the pavement. You can ask 10 different people on this site which tires they like and get 10 different answers...go with any of the major names mentioned here, get rid of Sava's, and you can't really go that wrong. The Pirelli's that come standard on the GTS were recommended by my dealer (that is why I didn't go with them...he sells tires... he wants to see me for more tires soon..they don't last long...so, I went with what the service rep at the Vespa dealer recommended...Zippy's).

Before getting the Heidenaus, I ran the Pilot City on the front and Pilot Sport on the rear for the majority of the time on my LX, which has almost 19.5K on the odometer now. Never had any issues with these. Either way, like you I didn't like the stock Pirellis compared to the Michelins.

[quote="drewteague"] Drew, the Pirelli Catalog lists them as 'new for 2009'
120/70 - 12 51P TL Diablo Scooter Front NEW IP codes 1822800

Are they not making it to the States either? (I've had No luck getting them here)

Harvey

interesting! I'll have to see if I can get my hands on them.

The UK pirelli site lists the 150/70-14 Diablo as available (for the Fuoco rear) - but there have never been any in the country - likewise 120/70-16 Diablo Scooter for the GP800 fronts. The latter despite new bikes arriving with those on.

It's down to what the distributor deems worthwhile stocking - they may have a minimum order quantity they have to fulfil.

I just came across this old thread and saw that I hadn't answered the OP's question earlier. So, here it is. All tires are for my GTS 250.

Rear tires:
1. Stock Sava, lasted 5,277 mi. Replaced by Zippy 1
2. Zippy 1, lasted 4,700 mi. Replaced by Zippy 1
3. Zippy 1, lasted 4,500 mi. Replaced by Michelin Pilot Sport
4. Michelin Pilot Sport, lasted 4,000 mi. Prematurely replaced by Pirelli Diablo due to puncture
5. Pirelli Diablo, lasted 7,400 mi. Replaced by Pirelli Diablo (just recently)

Front tires:
1. Stock Sava lasted 12,200 mi. Replaced by Michelin Pilot Sport, which introduced the infamous wobble.
2. Michelin P.S., lasted 9,500 mi. Prematurely replaced by Pirelly GTS23 due to wobble. Wobble ended with GTS23.

I used to buy the pilot sport for larger displacement motorcycles and i really liked them. The one thing about the Pilot sport is they didn't last as long as i would have liked... they were a very good handling tire in dry and in wet... i eventually swapped them out for the Pilot ROADS and was very pleased with the overall package... they lasted and were good in wet and dry conditions...

i don't think they make the roads for scooters but given the info. posted here at least we have options....

A good place to look for your options is moto tyres

http://www.moto-tyres.co.uk/start.html

And another good site for ordering stuff from is M & P. They seem to have the cheapest prices online. They charge £5 delivery for two tyres and are cheaper than Moto..

http://www.mandp.co.uk/products.aspx?tier1=Tyres

I note that Moto have the Pirelli Diablo... which might be an option.

I know on my Burgman 400 scooter people recommend running the rear tire at 41 PSI or Two people Pressure as opposed to 29 in the manual. My mechanic says that it increases tire life. I'm new to a Vespa, but I know from other MC/Scooters that lower air pressures in rear tires increases tire heat which causes wear.

On another note what is the difference between Pilot City and Pilot Sport tires. Have you notice a wear differences as far as tire life and grip.

I am gonna put bridgestone on gts's rear in few months when stock Saba wear out, I got bridgestone rear hit up to 16,750 miles on my 07 burgman 400, and still on stock bridgestone on front at 27,400mi! , but will replace when I order new tire asap

On the Burgman I'd go with Michelin Sport or Pirelli GTS23/24. Just my experience living in San Antonio. Check out American Motorcycle Tire.com