Modern Vespa

I frequently ride through and between cars (at the red light, waiting for green) during peak hour.

I have had 2 occurances of swiping the cars mirrors...
i'm wondering if there are any mirrors out there which gives the vespa a smaller width? (ie. from one side of the scoot to the other - the handle bars are the widest part of the bike). I understand these may limit my vision but i think it should be okay. i am not particularly broad anyways.

I've seen the bar end type mirrors however, with some cars the standard handle bars height is perfect for going underneath them... with those mirrors, it's definatley going to 'swipe' them...

anyone know of any?

If your hitting cars it mean your too close of fit. smaller mirrors will help but still you need more room.

My stock mirrors seemed to be the same height as the car mirrors, making lane splitting and filtering more... er... exciting than it need be. I went with bar end mirrors, but pinched between the grips and bar end weights to minimize the width of the scooter. They hang over about and inch from the bars, but they are about 1 cm above the grips, so they are easier to keep track of. Plus, they sit lower than the stock mirrors and car mirrors.

They are Motrax brand billet, 3-inch mirrors and purchased at a national chain for $25 US.

Have a look:

You will have to trade safety from a better rear view with slim-line through narrower width.

I personally would not want to sacrifice safety just to get by a tight spot in traffic. Bar end mirrors, for that matter, are deemed less safe in my book, because I need to deliberately look down and to the side to see their image, which means I have to focus away from traffic in front of me.

Smaller mirrors show less and are harder to 'read' (also in my book).

Stock mirrors are my best compromise for visibility, safety, and slim-line (and I have about 23,000 miles of lane splitting in CA under my belt).

I'd worry more about the durability of your helmet than your mirrors. You will need the extra protection when one of the guys whose car mirror you break tries to kick the stuffing out of you.

You obviously have no lane splitting experience. That guy whose mirror was violated is far behind you, stuck in his lane, while you are already at home

I split lanes on my Bagger sometimes 20 miles worth in Los Angeles traffic. lane splitting on a Vespa is a cake walk.

Good point, but can't one of your goals be to not violate another man's mirror? If one can't do the deed without knocking into someone's car or mirror, then they should be content stay in traffic.

I'm totally getting over on cagers already, why be and asshat on top of it? I say be cool to all your fellow commuters.

As for the safety of bar end mirrors, I can say that my front-facing field of vision is greatly increased by getting the big stock mirrors out of the way, making lane splitting and filtering much easier and I dare say safer. The bar ends I run provide a smaller image, but being convex, provide a much wider field of vision. Plus, when I need to really see whats behind and next to me, I turn my head and look. Nothing beats putting your peepers directly on the situation.

Certain things may be unnecessary to mention, and not intentionally violating a cager's vehicle is one of them. But it happened to me once, that I hit (touched, not destroyed, I think) an SUV's mirror, and it was because he had hogged the space between lanes, so at least it was part of his fault. If a space really looks too tight, I would, of course, stop there and bake in the heat, until it opens up again.

That said, from my view it appears that you must be short in size. With a lower point-of-view, the stock mirrors can get in the way, I concede. For me (6'), they block the view to a bit of asphalt right in front of me, where I never look anyway. Bar end mirrors would not be in my normal peripheral view (particularly not with a FF helmet), I'm sitting too tall for them.

Edit to modify my earlier concession: the [GTS] stock mirrors are soooo far to the side that they couldn't possibly be in the way of traffic, road, whatever ahead. They might cover a midget to your side, but then, you would have seen him as you approached him, and once he is behind a stock mirror, it is too late anyway

Nice arrangement. I was looking at those Motrax mirrors today. What bar ends are you using with them?

I also hate the stock mirrors. For a good filter they appear to be set at collision height with taxi and van mirrors. I have hit a van driver's mirror once, a week after getting the 300. I was not used to the pace and was going to fast. After he called me everything under the sun I was certainly using that pace to its fullest!

Thanks for the kind words. My bar end weights are stock Vespa weights that came on the scoot (purchased used) which also had a factory topcase installed. I purchased 90mm stainless hex head bolts - factory length is 80mm - to allow for the extra width with mirrors on.

Honestly, bar end mirrors widen your bike quite a bit. Yes, it brings them down, but the range of vehicles on the road have their mirrors at basically any height you can think of. The best solution is to make yourself narrower. Scroll about halfway down this thread, and you'll see my mirrors. I have installed them on a number of others' bikes as well, and the difference is huge!

BTW, I do use bar-end weights, but the MP3 style that are shorter.

show us your mirror mods

Bin the mirrors
That way the handlebars are as wide as your hands

All you can see most of the times is your arms anyway.

Learn to look behind you, it will serve you better in the long run.

Jaysus!
I just about live in my mirrors and could not imagine scooting without them.
A 'head check' (looking over your shoulder) is taught on the riding course as an additional safety check when lane changing to monitor the inevitable blind spot that may occur in multiple lanes of moving traffic.
I remember the Ferrari driver in the original Gumball Rally movie ripping off his rear view mirror and stating "What is behind me does not matter!"....but seriously, I think Fartypants is taking the piss.

Back to the O.P.
I also lanespilt regularly in stationery queues or slow moving queues of traffic (legal here). I have had a couple of mirror contacts in the early days and had to hold the hand up for a moving apology. Lately, if the fit looks too tight I come to a stop and 'wiggle' past close mirrors by leaning the GT over - this is of course only when splitting to the front of stationery cages.
The other day I was wedged in by a late lane change by an SUV. I simply grabbed my mirror and folded it back, rode through and pushed the mirror back into position. The mirror has not loosened but I'm not sure how many times I would do this.
Basically I am apply more care and less speed when splitting these days coz I find the clashing of mirrors a bit emabrrasing and consider myself in the wrong if I am the moving vehicle.
Good luck

Plenty of scooter riders here ride with no mirrors - I wouldn't, but they seem to do just fine, especially the vintage crew.

Quite a few ride with seemingly hundreds of mirrors as well - now that I'd find confusing!

Agreed, I'd probably crash checking myself out too often

Sorry, didn't mean to start up a who's right and wrong thread.
IMHO i total agree that the stock mirrors provide great visibility & safety... i am willing trade a percentage of that so i can lane split in tight sydney traffic! Call me crazy. .
I am however not insane to impede it in such a way such as to may as well 'remove' mirrors and ride without them.. i've seen a few bikies do 'em.

That said.... Exactly!

This next train of thought is disregarding safety... but do you think it's possible to install the bar end left mirror on the right and the right on the left? (effectively reducing width again).
Before someone burns me to a stick.. would you get a view not >40-50% obstructed (from yourself in the mirror) from these mirrors? Yes. I am trading safety, however i also do head checks when changing lanes. Drew.. aren't these almost the same width as the handle bars or is the angle of the picture decieving?

Likewise not right or wrong post.

Just an observation that with no mirrors, the widest part is your hands and you just 'know' how wide that is.

Anyways, I would still be using mirrors had someone not liberated them from my scoot! The view from them was mainly of my elbows anyway, so a proper look back was generally a good thing to do.

These last pics of mirrors look like they're plenty narrow.
So much so in fact they look like they'd give you a good view of your own chest, and not much more......?
Would you sacrifice not being able to see following traffic just for more 'narrowness'?
-Don't believe I would, myself...

my trick is to remove the left mirror - this lets you get nice and close to the traffic you are passing.

Not a bad idea if you're in Central London most of the time.

Yeah, my mrrors are about an inch or two narrower than the bar ends. I feel that they are just about the perfect compromise between usability and narrow profile. If you are getting close enough that you need the mirrors to be narrower than the bars, that's too close,IMO, and I'm quite an agressive lane splitter. In that case, it's best to wait, or possibly slip behind the car to the other side, because if they are that close on one side, there will likely be plenty of room on the other side.

Don't get new mirrors just because of that. I hit a mirror once every week or two. So does the crotch rocket in front of me and so does the guy on a Harley (who is really too wide) behind me.

I've had my mirror (on my car) tagged by a bike splitting lanes. No damage to car mirror.

EXCUSE ME,
What I do to get past cars is this,
I've been told by the traffic school is any way you can
get past the car in front of you is legal. When the cars in front of me squeeze together I pass on there right. If it's too tight and I want the
front of the traffic I ride in the left hand turn lane then pull in front of
the fast lane cars and wait for the lite to change and then go, be
inventive.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52991

Here is some info

I can relate to the Vespa's mirrors being in the wrong position for filtering.

I definitely understand WM's post - I've found the GT's mirrors are perfectly placed to collide with a Transit van's mirrors.

It's not the size of the mirrors though it's their position.

You could try bar end mirrors, alternative shapes and stems, even legshield mounted mirrors - see which one works for you.


However. one thing I will say though;


If you hit someone else's mirror while filtering then you're filtering too fast.

I love filtering. I do get seriously pissed off with white line (not lane)
hoggers who impede my progress. It might mean I have to come to a practical standstill and wiggle the bars past them but if I can't avoid a collision with their mirrors then I'm going too fast.

End of the day if you (and that's not aimed at the OP - I should probably write "one" but that's not how I speak)) can't avoid a stationary object you're doing something wrong. - no ifs no buts.

I just had an epiphany: keep your stock mirrors.

Then, loosen the left mirror a bit in its socket, so that it is tight enough not to move while you ride, but will rotate and fold back when you hit an object strong enough to move it.

This will only work for the left mirror, so aim accordingly

Interesting idea.

Given that there's no cam on the fitting, what torque would you suggest for the socket? What speed would it okay up to?

Trial and error dear boy!

Approximately, or a little more, maybe

Seriously now, JimC answered it correctly. Trial by pushing it back with your hand, and by riding with it loose to see that the wind alone won't push it back at your maximum speeds.

Careful guys! Whack your mirror a couple of times, and you'll probably strip out the threads in the mount! It's just aluminum! (that's aluminium for you, Jim. )

I do a lot of riding between cars here in the city and find the stock mirror arrangement to be a bit wide indeed, but at any rate they're up high enough to clear most car mirrors.

It's true that delivery van mirrors are the exception, but I can usually swing the handlebars just so I can clear them and get through. My previous Honda was so low to the ground it was a lot harder filtering between cars.

Visibility with the stock Vespa mirrors is great, and that's most important to me.

Zwerski, does these mirrors move back and foreward rotation? It looks like they can move up and down but can you adjust the angle to make it show a wider angle?

I put these on my gt200, and love the look, but hate staring at my shoulders. I have already ordered the longer stem ones. These are only 5" stems, the new ones will be 7". I find that no matter how I adjust them, I have to kinda lean in to get a good view behind me.

If your mirror's that loose it probably will eventually move out of alignment while you're riding!
I have a better solution. Don't "hit" that "object"?!

Sometimes when I read threads on MV (and MB) where people
talk a lot about crashing and accidents I wonder if I must be particularly lucky
that in 25 years of MC riding and 6 on scooters, I haven't "hit an object"?

But then when I also consider some peoples' attitudes about riding....?

A few people around here have been using Napoleon bar-end mirrors, but mounted to the stock mirror mounts. This brings the mirror forward (better for tucking) and lower (better for lane sharing).

Jess has them on his GTS, you can kinda see it in this pic:



Or this one:



Or here on Patrick's (oopsclunkthud) Sym HD200:



View from the back, both bikes:



Last one, with rider in position:



I'm going to go pick up a set today, actually.

Quick question: do you do a lot of lane splitting? Sorry, we're not talking about crashing and accidents. We are talking about lane splitting and the effects of it. I lane-split during my time in CA, hitting one other mirror once, during a time where I rode over 23,000 miles on my GTS.

I wish I could lane-split where I live now

I to disagree WB, clipping a car is a hit and run. you said it yourself you beat them home. If a rider dose not stay to see the damage its a hit and run.

From that I'm guessing you've not experienced a loose mirror.

I've had enough problems when one doesn't stick in position in the cup let alone the problems with pushing the legshield mounted one back in position on the P2.


I'll go back to my original comment. - If you hit anything with your mirror while filtering then you're filtering too fast.

The stock mirror is not designed to be moved around like this. My left side mirror had been moved so many times by riders parking next to me that the thread in the socket was totally stripped. It is an expensive part to be replaced.

Now I use a pair of folding mirrors. The thing is I cannot see what is immediately behind me in a normal riding position.