Modern Vespa

Alright, just for posterity's sake, I'm going to post most of the pictures I've got from when I was buying Sunny. That way it'll be easier to see how far she's come. Plus, if I need some motivation, I can come back and read my own thread and see all the work that's already been done.

Sunny's a Super 150 that was parked under an old oak tree for approx 17 years. The tags on her when mattgyver's roommate found her were last renewed in Florida in '92. Plenty of rust from sitting outside, but not as bad as you might think. Trouble spots included rusted out floorboards and battery cowl compartment, and absolutely everything on it being frozen up.

Now, for actual progress! We got down to work over the long Labor Day weekend, and got quite a bit of disassembly done. We discovered plenty more rust, but were able to get through most of it. It didn't take long for us to get pretty serious though, and by the end of the day were having to cut out bolts that were free of the frame, but had rusted to their nuts and refused to do let go. The main goal for the weekend was to disassemble the engine and see what we had to work with, and what needed to be replaced, but we didn't get as fas as we'd have liked. The piston is currently locked in the cylinder head, blocking us from removing much else, so we moved on to the front end. When we started, both the clutch and accelerator were frozen, as well as all the electrical switches and the clutch lever. The only reason the brake lever moved was because the cable had obviously broken somewhere. We got everything free except the clutch handle won't turn freely. Hopefully I'll have more soon!

PS The plastic bucket with the white lid that I just realized shows up in so many pictures is where we're collecting all the small pieces and parts until we can clean everything up and see what we can reuse. Gotta stay organized. Everything from screws to bearings to the speedo are in there!

ohh dully i see u have so many thing to be done but i wish u many many good luck and i know u can bring this sunny girl back to the beauty and hopely even better then 17 years ago when she was active and running great cant wait to see more pics of what u do to her

best wishes
ebeth

bloody hell you must have the patience of a saint ...... good luck

I sure hope the sheer amount of time and $ it will take to make that thing nice again doesn't ruin your love and ambition for scooter projects. They often do when you get in over your head.

That's going to be an awesome project Dully!

That is going to take a ton of elbow grease and even more love to get this scoot back on the road.. I hope everything works out and you can save this scoot!! I know lots of us are going to watch this and hope for the best.

The body work will be the major hurdle, but a good welder can make that happen, and he's got one as I understand it. The stuck piston... well you just need to get it loose enough to get the sucker apart. Pop a new cylinder and piston on there, maybe a new crank and bearings, maybe not, and BAM. New tires and new rims, sure, but that's not expensive and is a very rewarding replacement to make anyway. Lot's of stuff beyond that as well, but he wanted a project Rooting for you Dullivan!

Yeah, there's a ton that has to go on here, but once the rust is taken care of, this is just going to be another boring old average project thread.

And I know this is going to sound weird, but there's not a lot of other ways to put this...that rust is really photogenic. Seriously. When mattgyver sold me the thing, I had my doubts from the pictures he sent, but its nowhere near as bad as it looks on the intarwebs. The same goes with every shot I've taken since we got her. I'm thinking about doing some scrubbing and trying again. Lots of what's around there isn't rust, it's just dirt. Maybe that's one of the reasons why.

Thanks for the encouragement though everybody. I'm glad to see folks are interested.

There were many times rebuilding my P that I lost hope. Thankfully my rebuild partner never did and together, we got through it. It gets frustrating, especially when you are almost done and just have the tedious shit to do.

When you take it for the maiden voyage, you forget all of that. I would imagine it's similar to a woman going through the pain of childbirth, then the immediately forgetting all of that when you get to hold that newborn, or something like that.

Gonna be nice, Dully!

Well, my project is officially toast. We bought this thing with a questionable...well, everything, because we thought the engine would be workable, that we could rebuild all of the mechanicals, and then worry about the pretty stuff later. Taking this idea to heart, Dad and I went to work this morning to get the engine apart.

As I mentioned last time, the piston was stuck pretty well in the cylinder. We had no idea how well. After soaking in PBBlaster for three weeks, not a drop had sunk in. We pried, wedged and gently hammered until we knew it wasn't going anywhere. We finally decided that both the cylinder and piston were no good, so we got more forceful. We prying to the point where we were breaking fins off the cylinder. No good. We started hammering to the point where we broke off the rest of the fins. Didn't move an inch. We finally got results when I pried with dad's 2ft+ long, half inch thick flathead screwdriver (which he calls the Volkswagen attitude adjuster...apparently a necessary tool for working on VW's) and he hammered directly on the piston. Things started to move, but we realized after got around an inch and a half of clearance that the piston still had not moved. We'd either something had come loose, or we'd bent the piston arm. The latter seemed more likely.

At this point, we looked at our parts manual and got a great idea. We though we could just go through the clutch, possibly disconnect the piston arm, and then pull out the whole assembly. Well, whenever we got the clutch open, sand poured out. It appears that the whole inside of my motor is full of sand, and completely rusted out. Unusable. At this point, if I wanted to rebuild this bike, I'd be looking at buying a new engine to put into the frame you see above, or buying all the pieces to build an engine from scratch using the casing I have, which would probably cost the same or more, and be more work that I really care to do on this poor scoot.

So, lesson learned. I won't be buying a scooter, project or not, unless it runs. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to take a break from scooters and build an arcade cabinet. Much cheaper, and I can tell what I'm getting when I'm looking at wood and electronics. Don't worry, I'll be back sooner or later to restore another scooter, but its going to be awhile before my budget recovers. Anybody wanna buy a mostly disassembled project bike in the Southeast GA area? I'll deliver within reasonable distance. Pictures can be found below of some spots that need "extra care" if you decide to take her. At least you'll know what you're in for.

Dully,

Sorry for the way your project turned out. You took on what was an extremely difficult restoration, even for an experienced wrencher.

I hope you will be back. Next time you buy a scooter, look for a running, titled scooter that needs a little cosmetic work, like a P125 or a P150. Ride it, do the maintenance on it, and start tweaking small things a little at a time. When it's running exactly how you like it, then you can paint it (if need be.)

The huge bonus of approaching a project as described above is that you can actually ride the scooter, and get to know how it should feel when it's all sorted. Getting a feel for a sorted bike is a big help later when you need to trouble shoot.

Best wishes! Take a SHORT break, keep your eyes open for a bargain, and start over.

I feel bad for you Dullivan ..and i'm a bit confused.


So, i've got a GS160 engine that was in EXACTLY the same condition ...seized top end ... every steel part was rusted in place...bearings were all locked.

It took me 2 weeks, but i got the engine cut free from the frame, the engine mounts removed ( just yesterday ) ...the remnants of the swingarm bolt removed...

the cylinder was locked to the piston / crank ... so i had to get the cases split to get those freed up ( and will have them hydraulic pressed apart ).

It's all apart and ready for blasting now.

Anyways, in my mind it just reinforced that you can take an engine in practically any amount of rust, grime and decay ...and if you can get it apart enough to be blasted and have individual parts repaired, that engine can go back together and run again.

Fear not, don't lose hope.

Vintage scooters are a test of will. They make you so pissed off at times .... and are such a labor of love, yet cause so much frustration ... that it makes the times when you ARE riding all the better. You appreciate it on a completely different level than someone who just laid down a credit card and bought something new.

Trust me. Go watch quadrophenia, recharge your mental battery, and have at it again!


( and incidentally, the stock yellow parts look terrific - cowls / fender / etc. Love that color )

Well, I talked to dad last night, and he's apparently willing to at least split the cases. We're mostly going to be going at it as a "learning experience" for the next motor, but if anything in there looks usable, we could end up sticking with this engine. We may sandblast the cases after all that and still use it anyway, who knows. I haven't decided. We're at least going to keep working on her though. Thanks Eric.

Also, is it a sin that I've never watched Quadrophenia? That's one of The Who's movies right? Like Tommy? ...I fear I may have just outed myself.

Yeah, it's a Who-made musical drama sorta movie. It was made in the late 70's, and is sort of a period piece on the youth / mod subculture in england in the mid 60's. Terrible acting, but lots of scooters.

From looking at the 3rd picture it looks as if you were hitting on the centre of the piston, I would try and find a piece of pipe or tubing that fits down barrel but contacts around the outer edge of the piston. That way you will be applying maximum force onto the area that is fused and you won't bend the piston head or the conrod.

That said, if the conrod is bent you could just chop the whole top end off since the piston, jug and likely the conrod are all cactus.

Good Luck,

there is no greater feeling that riding the thing down the road for the first time.

Will

At this point i would agree. The Jug was probably going to be the only salvageable thing out of the trio before, but now all the fins are gone that's set for the bin as well.

We'll find someone upgrading their stock Sprint / Super to something bigger and get the parts you need on the cheap.

Well, if I weren't pretty much already on the lookout for an entirely new engine anyway, I'd say things went from bad to worse this weekend. Sunny's engine is officially shot, all the way around. Even the cases are no good now. Once we removed the flywheel, we discovered the case on that side is completely split through, from the opening for the flywheel all the way to the hole for the cylinder assembly. We don't know if it was like this, or if we did it when we were pounding on the piston. I don't think it matters much anymore. Dad says we could JB Weld the thing back together, but at this point a new/different engine is going to be a huge saver of time and money. Money is really the one I'm worried about. Otherwise, we'll spend 3 years just waiting on my budget to catch up to get all the parts together. We did get the cases completely split, but nothing in there is worth jack, except maybe the stator and crank shaft. My dad is taking the crank shaft/pison/cylinder to my uncle's shop to get the pin pressed out to free the crank shaft from the piston arm. Maybe we can sell it. Pictures are of all this.

As far as GOOD news (a first in this thread I think. haha) I've got a lead on another Super 150 engine, as well as a replacement piece for my rusted strip on the frame, and possibly floorboards as well.

Also, a sad bit of commentary on the state of this engine. Splitting the cases was nothing compared to all the work we did on that cylinder. Not even close. Hahaha

Well, i don't know if i'd doom those cases based on the crack i saw in the pic... though the pic might not really show how bad it is.

Realize that the cases are most important around where the crankshaft sits. That area needs to be airtight and hold pressure, vacuum, etc.

Outside of that circular area the crank sits, the rest of the cases are NOT under pressure, and only really need to hold oil in.


And i'll say this - your parts there may be a bit rusty... but even if you toss the cases, some of those bits may still prove salvagable. Really, anything without a bearing in it can be blasted or wirebrushed. I would take a wire brush to that clutch basket and de-rust that. Your kickstart quadrant is good. Your kickstart gear is good. Your primary drive ( the big christmas tree shaped thing ) might be good after you replace the bearings inside it. The Gearstack is likely in fine shape after you wire brush it clean.

That crankshaft MIGHT be shot...because there's bearings in the area where the big round part connects to the "con rod".

But, these are completely good parts, even if they LOOK ugly. If it were mine, i'd be sending a lot of that stuff to be blasted and i'd still try to build the engine myself.

I hope you learned a bit in the disassembly process.

OH ...forgot to add ... you can always have someone that can aluminum weld run a bead of aluminum down that crack to make sure it's reinforced, and grind it flat in areas where it needs to be ( like, where the stator would sit. )

any progress dully?

leave it... find another project or you dumped tons of $$$ into restoration

Sorry, I haven't logged in in quite awhile. Things are going slowly. I'm still trying to work out a deal on a new engine, but I'm not all fired up like I was before, so I'm not worried about things progressing quickly right now. I've taken out the kickstart quadrant and wire brushed all the rust off. It looks pretty good. I haven't sat down long enough to yank out the gear stack and whatnot, but im planning on cleaning them as well. Even if the new engine doesn't need them, I can sell them and use the funds to get this project back in gear.

Don't worry, I haven't given up, and I'm sure get all excited if/when I get a new engine or whatever.

Just keep a lookout for deals on what you need and save up some coin. Not trying to rub it in but now you see how a 1000-1500 runner really is the cheapest deal when it comes to time money not to mention frustration. I'm in a similar position your in (by choice) waiting on funds to keep things moving. At least it's winter now and riding season is over.

http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=19010

Not bad advice at all. $750 shipped is a decent deal.

Sadly, this is not true for me. I'm actually the opposite of everyone else. June - September is absolutely unbearably hot down here unless you're willing to ride naked (and spend jailtime naked too), so right now is good riding weather. I knew I wasn't going to make it in on this riding season anyhow though, so it's all good.

Don't worry about me. I'll get this beast riding sooner or later. I'm slowly but surely learning that just about anything is fixable, as long as you're willing to devote the time, both to the bike, and to working to make the money.

By the way, I couldn't get the full gear stack out without having dad there to know what tools to use, but I pulled the kickstart quadrant out last weekend and went to Advanced Auto Parts and bought some cheapy brushes. You can actually tell the stupid thing is metal again! I'm amazed. haha. Once I get everything that's still usable brushed off, I may post another picture. I'm getting back into the swing of things, so here's hoping this project picks back up again soon.

Patience is important when it comes to breaking free stuck engines like that. A rosebud on an oxyacetylene torch used to heat the jug would cause it to expand, and allow the penetrant of your choice to sink in. The piston could have been sacrificed by cutting/drilling it out around the small end of the con rod, allowing removal of the cylinder and then it could simply be bored. I've read that a 50/50 mix of acetone and automatic transmission fluid is the best penetrant in existence. It all boils down to patience not big hammers and pry bars. What do doctors say? "First do no harm?" or something like that. Everyone has to experience a learning curve so I'm not beating you up, just trying to help.