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@windbreaker avatar
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UTC quote
The more I read about this, the grayer my hair get Headache emoticon

I think I'm at a point where I decided for myself to use an OAT based product (Peak) because it is hard or close to impossible to find the Piaggio-recommended Agip or Fina product with CUNA NC 956-16 specs in the USA.

To see how new Vespas are delivered from the dealer, I'd like to know what color is in your expansion tank (behind the right knee pad). You can see it when you remove the black top cap (CAUTION: don't remove it when the coolant is hot, or at least be very careful and do it s l o w l y !)
With enough ambient light, you will be able to see the color.

Please only look for it if your scooter is below two years old and never needed any work on the cooling system.

Who knows whether the scooters are even shipped with coolant in them, or whether the dealer has to add it at PDI?
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Hooked
BV250 & Aprilia scarabeo 250
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UTC quote
In my BV250... it's orange-ish.

Hope that helps.
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The Host with the Toast
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The Host with the Toast
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UTC quote
clear
2008 GTS
Coolant cooler is clear or pink

the guys on the apillia Forum recomend the prime from prestone

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_uk/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/o/Off_Highway_brochure.pdf
Xref
BS 6580 (1992) (UK)
NF R 15-601 (France)
CUNA NC 956-16 (Italy)
ONORM V5123 (Austria)
ASTM D-3306 (USA)
SAE J-1034 (USA)
JIS K 2224 (Japan)
Grade Code 1729
⚠️ Last edited by 175mws on UTC; edited 4 times
@theoz avatar
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Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
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Sir Frets-A-Lot
@theoz avatar
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UTC quote
Sometimes green. Sometimes pink. Depends on the bike and what was available when I last flushed the system.
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GTS250, P200E
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UTC quote
2007 GTS -the original was green/yellow and I replaced it with OAT-based red/pink Havoline Dexcool. The color means nothing. Dexcool will work well in a closed system that has a pressure cap on the overflow tank at the top of the system. Dexcool can become a disaster in a system where the pressure cap is at the top of the metal radiator tank and air is allowed to get sucked into the radiator, touching the inside of the metal tank. This is true for motoscooters and cars.

Mix 50/50 with distilled water only.

Cheers and good luck,
Bob
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UTC quote
Bob Cowley wrote:
2007 GTS -the original was green/yellow and I replaced it with OAT-based red/pink Havoline Dexcool. The color means nothing. Dexcool will work well in a closed system that has a pressure cap on the overflow tank at the top of the system. Dexcool can become a disaster in a system where the pressure cap is at the top of the metal radiator tank and air is allowed to get sucked into the radiator, touching the inside of the metal tank. This is true for motoscooters and cars.

Mix 50/50 with distilled water only.

Cheers and good luck,
Bob
MNScooter posted a very good piece about antifreeze sometime back. He's pretty knowledgeable, and said he has it on good authority that Texaco/Havoline Dexcool is the identical same stuff Piaggio uses. Here's the thread: antifreeze
⚠️ Last edited by Cincinnati John on UTC; edited 1 time
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber BMW R1200 RT Big Red
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eeeee bip
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UTC quote
Green
The colour of my coolant is Blue. Like cool man.

Bill X
@harvey avatar
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2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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@harvey avatar
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UTC quote
I'm confused, you can order 12L directly from Agip North America for only $74 and shipping:
American Agip Anti-freeze


And you can't have concerns about the expense ($23 a gallon! what a deal!) or storing them......
windbreaker wrote:
louisq wrote:
Thanks for the link, but for some it's impractical to stock enough oil to last 10 years.....
C'mon, ride some more! And it isn't even all that expensive, just $37 a gallon.

Besides, they are 12 single 1L bottles. You can always find a nook and a cranny here and there to hide another bottle. Just keep track, so you'll find them again
Laughing emoticon
Harvey
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UTC quote
my coolant/anti-freeze is pink
@windbreaker avatar
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@windbreaker avatar
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UTC quote
Thanks all, it helps deconfuse me and follow my plan (to keep the Peak stuff in it that I just flushed with).

Harvey, you're right, 20-some bucks is nothing in the big picture, but why, when I can get ASTM D-3306 (USA) for around a tenner.

Cincinnati John, yes, I am very familiar with that thread. That's what made me double-guess my last flush job, wondering whether I put in the right stuff. It is amazing how competitive and cutthroat this market is, where some brands tell you that all the others basically eat out your cooling system from the inside and only their stuff will keep it alive, while others tell you you can mix theirs with everything, and only THEY protect your engine

175mws, I also saw that thread, and they brought up color, so this is why I started this thread.

Only thing that is still open is, whether Vespas come with a dry or a filled cooling system when they are shipped overseas (USA). Anyone who knows?

Thanks all!
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UTC quote
OK, being a bit more serious, The pre-delivery section of the workshop manual lists
Quote:
Levels check
Level check:
- Hydraulic brake system liquid level.
- Rear hub oil level
- Engine coolant level
- Engine oil level
Which at least suggests they're factory filled, perhaps as part of an initial factory start-up.


Harvey
@windbreaker avatar
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UTC quote
Harvey wrote:
OK, being a bit more serious, The pre-delivery section of the workshop manual lists
Quote:
Levels check
Level check:
- Hydraulic brake system liquid level.
- Rear hub oil level
- Engine coolant level
- Engine oil level
Which at least suggests they're factory filled, perhaps as part of an initial factory start-up.


Harvey
Good point, Harvey, I agree.
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UTC quote
Mine's pink, in the '09 GTV.
@tomjasz avatar
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UTC quote
DEX-COOL

ADI Marketing - Metro NY
Advance Auto Parts - East of the Rockies
Ames Dept. Store - New England
ASPA Management - Long Island, NY
Auto Pro - Distributors Southeast
Autozone - Nationwide
Balas Distributing - Pennsylvania
Benny's/Stewart - New England
Bill's Dollar Stores - Midwest
Bi-Mart - Northwest
Boat America - East and West
CSK - West of The Rockies
Family Dollar - East of The Rockies
G. I. Joe's - Northwest
K-Mart - Nationwide
Korrect Automotive - Metro NY
Mclane - South Central
Mid-State - St Paul, MN
Midwest Autoparts - Midwest
O'Reilly's - Midwest/Southeast
Pamida - Midwest
Pep Boys - Southeast
Rite-Aid Corp - Nationwide
Thrifty Auto Supply
Tractor Supply Company - East of the Rockies
Tropical - Midwest
True Serve - Midwest
Twinco Romax - Upper Midwest
United Hardware - Upper Midwest
VIP - Northeast
@jimc avatar
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
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UTC quote
From new, my anti-freeze in various bikes has been blue, pink, clear and slightly orange. I suspect it depends which production line the bike comes from, and what they've bought in bulk that week.

The colour indicates nothing - just use the right sort of anti-freeze (ethylene glycol, available everywhere, it's rare to find anything else) 50:50 with de-ionised water and you'll be fine.
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jimc wrote:
From new, my anti-freeze in various bikes has been blue, pink, clear and slightly orange. I suspect it depends which production line the bike comes from, and what they've bought in bulk that week.

The colour indicates nothing - just use the right sort of anti-freeze (ethylene glycol, available everywhere, it's rare to find anything else) 50:50 with de-ionised water and you'll be fine.
-25F/-31C makes me a bit attentive to mixture and formula....
@jimc avatar
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UTC quote
Use the right stuff and you're good to -35C. I would use other preventative measures if I thought it would go that low though!
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UTC quote
jimc wrote:
. I would use other preventative measures if I thought it would go that low though!
Moving is not an option!
@copper_dolphin avatar
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Molto Verboso
LX150 Darling Plum; GTS 250 Dragon Red; Honda Big Ruckus Demented Bastard
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UTC quote
The coolant in my 2009 GTS 250 picked up in Feb this year was orange.
@jimc avatar
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UTC quote
But keeping stuff from being exposed to extra chill must be an option. Just wrapping the bike in cling-film would help - at least where the sun shines now and again. If the sun doesn't shine - bury it! Underground won't be so cold.

-35C is rather low though...
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UTC quote
jimc wrote:
-35C is rather low though...
Rather Laughing emoticon
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UTC quote
I wonder if the color of the antifreeze changes at that temperature, and what it might change to...

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The Host with the Toast
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UTC quote
VTO
SDG what is it factory fill or at the dealer?
UTC

Addicted
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UTC quote
Which junction
Is the inlet water pipe for draining system, the lower of the two pipes into the pump??? Thanks

Could this thread be put into the Tech Wiki?
@ron avatar
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UTC quote
Vespa/Piaggio, like any automaker, will tell you to buy ONLY their products to put in your scooter, or it may not run right. That ensures an income for them if you buy only their product line. If you check out the service manual specs, you will find that just about any well known coolant is acceptable as long as you follow the guidelines. The one I use is in the BRIGHT YELLOW jug. Reading the fine print on it, clearly states that it is a 50/50 mix of all the "stuff" that Vespa recommends.
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UTC quote
Ron wrote:
Vespa/Piaggio, like any automaker, will tell you to buy ONLY their products to put in your scooter, or it may not run right. That ensures an income for them if you buy only their product line. If you check out the service manual specs, you will find that just about any well known coolant is acceptable as long as you follow the guidelines. The one I use is in the BRIGHT YELLOW jug. Reading the fine print on it, clearly states that it is a 50/50 mix of all the "stuff" that Vespa recommends.
Sorry, I cannot agree with this. Piaggio does not have nor do they mandate a specific brand. They recommend a spec guideline (CUNA NC956-16). The service manual does not give any specs above that.
Nowhere do they state that it should be/must be free of silicates and phosphates, so your "stuff" specs are hollow at best.
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The Host with the Toast
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UTC quote
Its a standard
CUNA NC 956-16 (Italy) = ASTM D-3306 (USA)

the % of mix only changes the cold weather protection factor. adding water also activates the corrsion package.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze
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UTC quote
I eat my words. Dye colors do indeed indicate inhibitor type: have a look at this chart.
@windbreaker avatar
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UTC quote
Cincinnati John wrote:
I eat my words. Dye colors do indeed indicate inhibitor type: have a look at this chart.
With every new piece of information, this topic gets more confusing and contradictive.

Your chart is proven incorrect in one part, and therefore other parts may be incorrect as well. They list Valvoline Zerex 5/150 as OAT and not-HOAT. On the container, the product claims to be HOAT and not-OAT. I didn't compare more details, I'm getting dizzzzzzzzzzzy!

To be honest, I'm back to a point where I don't know which way to go
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UTC quote
You could just use what Piaggio recommends.
AGIP PERMANENT SPEZIAL (Agip Cooling Fluids)
www.americanagip.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=19&products_id=37

Wayne B
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UTC quote
i just used regular stuff from autozone......50/50 mixture already..

i wish i came across this thread early. Any advice?
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UTC quote
windbreaker wrote:
Cincinnati John wrote:
I eat my words. Dye colors do indeed indicate inhibitor type: have a look at this chart.
...Your chart is proven incorrect in one part, and therefore other parts may be incorrect as well. They list Valvoline Zerex 5/150 as OAT and not-HOAT. On the container, the product claims to be HOAT and not-OAT...
Well, that's a revolting development! I pulled that chart off the Wikipedia article that 175mws linked to.
@harvey avatar
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2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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@harvey avatar
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UTC quote
windbreaker wrote:
Cincinnati John wrote:
I eat my words. Dye colors do indeed indicate inhibitor type: have a look at this chart.
With every new piece of information, this topic gets more confusing and contradictive.

Your chart is proven incorrect in one part, and therefore other parts may be incorrect as well. They list Valvoline Zerex 5/150 as OAT and not-HOAT. On the container, the product claims to be HOAT and not-OAT. I didn't compare more details, I'm getting dizzzzzzzzzzzy!

To be honest, I'm back to a point where I don't know which way to go
Now that you're dazed and confused; want to organize a group buy of Agip Permanent Spezial?

I'm in for 2L Laughing emoticon

Harvey
@cincinnati_john avatar
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UTC quote
Stop making sense.

I'd be in if I didn't already have 3L of Motocool sitting in the garage.
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