Modern Vespa

Sorry, but beck and call might be a shortened form of beckon, a hand signal meaning come here, either a crooked finger or an arm extended palm up towards someone and bent from elbow or fingers towards the signaler.[/quote]

Yeah that's what I always thought to...Beckon

>I ride the ever changing canyons of London traffic, and your posts say strictly U.S.A.

Well for you, I shall have to expedite the testing on /250s and consider going global. Thanks.

Yeah that's what I always thought to...Beckon[/quote]

Sorry, but I got my info from Wikipedia, which is never wrong.

Honestly, both versions seem to be used with equal disregard to which is right.

Now back on topic.......

>Sorry, but I got my info from Wikipedia, which is never wrong.

True:

<http>

I mounted my pair of brackets from rjeffb last week and was waiting for the foot pegs I ordered from J&P Cycles. (Part # 5300363). I put them on today and love the set up! I have yet to ride with them but just trying out the two new foot positions the pegs give me tells me that longer rides will be a lot more comfortable now. Using the middle hole in the brackets puts the pegs at just the right height to allow me to keep my heels on the floor boards and put my toes on the pegs. With size 13 feet, this makes a huge difference in my knee extension which the bike didn't allow before. Putting my whole foot on the pegs allows even more extension although I miss the heel support. Kudos to rjeffb for the bracket design. Simple, one piece, rust proof, and no surgery on the bike required. As long as you understand that they were not designed to support your weight, they do the job just fine. I will attempt to attach a few photos. Sorry, I can't figure out how to do it.

Well, I decided to add rubber bushings under the footrest sides. Look for any refrigerator being disposed of, the motor has "four" big washers with bolts holding them on. (only need two) Usually a nut or just a metal slip clip will release them. They are about one inch wide, with 5/8 inch hole in middle. Used two tywraps on second hole to hold them in place. About a 1/4 inch space is still there, but adds some cushion for the "extreme stress moments", if they ever happen.

Rmmes, get out and start riding! Thanks!

To add pictures just look for the "Browse..." button, followed by the "Add Attachment" button. Pictures cannot be bigger than 800x800 pixels. If you are unsure how to do this, you can do it in Microsoft Paint. Right-click on the file and choose "edit," and Paint should open (if some other program opens instead, there's probably a "Resize" too, it may be hidden under a "Image" or "Attributes" menu name). Within Paint, choose Image > Attributes and change the fields to a maximum of 800. Paint isn't smart enough to calculate ratios for you so you'll have to do it; if your original picture is 3008x2000 as shown in the Attribute fields, then the new width will be 800 and the new height will be (800/3008 x 2000) = 531.9, which you round to 800x532. Quit Paint and it'll ask you if you want to save the image; click Yes. There's also a maximum file size, but Paint isn't sophisticated enough to addres that issue. Unless you have something like Photoshop or PaintShop, if ModernVespa still refuses to let you upload your resized photo with a "Exceeds maximum filesize" error, you can always bring it back into Paint and make it a bit smaller in width and height.

G03, first of all, we need photos. Secondly, I'm not sure if what I am imagining is what you are describing, but in any event I just had a hand-slapping-forehead experience. I said previously that I would not use a rubber bumper without a reinforcing washer and also that I could not find anything the right size. That is absolutely true of the UFP1, where the bumper has to physicaly coexist with the footpeg. Your post made me realize that with the extra holes of the UFP3, there is an entirely different possibility - one could mount a bumper in one of the UNUSED holes! In addition to the bumper now being completely separate from the footpeg, it would also not have to be tied in any way to the footpeg's screw or shaft size. For example, a 10mm footpeg could be in the middle hole and (assuming you felt you needed it) a 3/8" bumper mounted above it in the top hole. I'm kicking myself for not realizing that before!

Again, I think most people will NOT need the added protection of an add-on bumper to protect their body panels, but if you feel you need the extra protection, with the UFP3 it would be very, very simple to add.

Thanks for the added photo tips. Will try later on today. Added the bumper just for the extreme flex position, more like a safety net. If bracket was flexed to worse case, the bumpers would pause the distance, also stopping the pulling side stess, on the two plate holding screws. Again only an extreme extra! update on pictures, resized but bmp not allowed? getting closer though. now see it has to be jpeg or gif.

Looking, um, good there G03 (cool wire ties ;-)

Right, so you are putting the bumpers into a different hole than the pegs. See, I was looking at replacing the peg screw with a screw that terminated in its own bumper - McMaster sells a 3/8" bolt with a 13/16" high rubber bumper for $16 - EACH. So your idea of using a different hole opens up an entirely new (and economical) possibility. I found a liquidation warehouse that was selling rubber bumpers that fit into a 3/8" hole. No bolt, they just push in like a grommet. I don't think they're necessary and don't really want them, but they were only >50 CENTS< so I ordered some to experiment with. When they arrive I'll try 'em and post results. (Assuming they don't come too soon - the trike is in the shop for a J. Costa upgrade!)

I see that our friend in Utah finally got his brackets, so that completes the initial shipment. Still waiting for some real-life on-the-road feedback. In particular Kirk, lots of people with /400s are anxious to hear how you're doing (I've told inquirers I won't sell the brackets to them until you give the seal of approval).

Rmmes, regarding putting your toes on the UFP3 while your heels are on the floorboard - I tried that (center position) and didn't like it personally, but it is great that there's another option that the brackets can be used for. I think if that's what you want to use the UFP3 for and are using a flat footpeg like the Dixie, a better approach would be to rotate the peg so that it is halfway between "horizontal" (to the ground) and "aligned with the peg ear" (like in G03's picture above). That way the entire peg surface would be in contact with the sole of your foot. Tighten the screw down good to keep it from rotating, and you'd still be able to pop your entire foot up on the peg when you wanted to.

remmes,

Your choice of footpeg from J&P Cycles #5300363 was a good call. One additional item to stiffen up the peg is to insert a single 8mm wave lock washer onto the pivot bolt. Cost is under a buck for package of 10.

>Your choice of footpeg from J&P Cycles #5300363 was a good call. One additional item to stiffen up the peg is to insert a single 8mm wave lock washer onto the pivot bolt. Cost is under a buck for package of 10

Those are considerably more expensive than my Dixies but they look awesome. I couldn't tell from the J&P web site: do they automatically fold by themselves?

The Dixies also have a lip at the end supposedly to keep your foot on the peg, but the lip is only 3/16" high - more for looks than function IMHO. The J&P peg photo looks like it has a substantial (i.e. functional) lip - is that correct?

Yep they do fold and rattle and flop around if not under weight, the washer only stiffens. Plus when the bike is place under cover the do not flop out.

GO3,

Another hole filler are chrome plugs. It feels like I'm getting Harleyitis

Great idea to fill the other holes! Think I will look for the plastic black inserts, no future rust.

Naturally, it is critical that folded pegs stay upright, whether they pop up on their own or you kick them up, in case you ever need to get them out of the way in a hurry heading into an unexpectedly steep turn.

You guys are making me grin ear-to-ear - those hole covers are a great idea and look fantastic!

How much sooner than the center stand will the pegs hit the pavement? Are not most pegs designed to fold up on their own if they touch the pavement? Many cruisers show lots of road scrape on the bottom of pegs.

If I were to have an unexpected sharp turn I don't know I would have time to flip the peg up with my foot.

>How much sooner than the center stand will the pegs hit the pavement?

There is a detailed mathematical analysis of this at <https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic51080.1>, and the final UFP bracket design is in fact slightly shorter as an additional safety margin - which I am required to ignore in the interest of not putting people's lives at risk. The short answer is it is a complicated mix of weight, bank angle, and speed, and presumes "normal" pegs and an unmodified MP3 (non-OEM tire sizes reportedly have an effect too). See next item.

>If I were to have an unexpected sharp turn I don't know I would have time to flip the peg up with my foot.

Just so. As shown in the analysis, an ordinary peg on a stock MP3/500 will never contact ground under any "normal" manuver; but ignoring the safety margin, the MP3 is capable of doing extraordinary things that are going to make that a possibility. If you have decided you are going to do an extreme manuver and have stowed the pegs, it's obviously important that the peg stays stowed. The Dixie pegs, for example, will stay upright if properly tightened, which is pretty damned important because they will NOT pop up out of the way if they contact ground (which I mentioned at the start of this thread and is precisely why I disavow recommending one peg over another - see next item). The takeway is that a peg must either pop up on its own, whether from ground contact or because it is spring-loaded, or at a minimum if you stow it it must stay stowed.

>Are not most pegs designed to fold up on their own if they touch the pavement?

Precisely my point: NO. Most cruisers' driver pegs have a feeler underneath that is designed specifically to alert the driver to ground contact and to force the pegs to swing up on their own, but passenger's pegs or driver's "forward" pegs do not, nor do the majority of the aftermarket pegs I have seen for sale (exception: Kuryakyn ISO/dually pegs, which cost over $100 and would need modifications to fit the UFP). Without seeing and testing another peg, I can hardly make a judgement as to its safety...which is precisely why I am raising these points.

Okay, so I got the bumpers in. I had to buy 20 but they're only 50 cents plus shipping. Now, I still think these are overkill but they are a perfect fit and look like they and the brackets were designed for one another. Here's the deal: anyone buying a new set of brackets, add two bucks to the $100 and I'll include a pair. If you already bought brackets as of this date (10/12/09) and you want them, send me a SASE with enough stamps, I dunno maybe three stamps, and I'll send you a pair free.

These were closeout overstock so consider this a "limited time offer."

The shots below show them mounted top and center. You could in theory mount them in the bottom hole, but I'm not sure that would actually accomplish anything because the brackets would have to flex a LOT before they'd make contact. But if you are using the center peg position and you don't want to put a bumper at the top position (see photo below), then the bottom position could still give you "worst-case situation" peace of mind.

Again, I don't believe that most people will need them but hey, it is another option and they look good.

RJL's check finally showed up (its absense was probably my fault :-( and he's getting two bracket sets, one of which is for his wife's /400. I don't know offhand if she has diamondplate under the soles of her feet (wasn't that a Paul Simon song?) but if not, he seems pretty handy and the sort of guy who'll be able to get them to work. I've asked him to report his results. I also gave him a bevy of bumpers so we'll see if he likes them.

EDIT: brackets were delivered today (10/19/09), so we're waiting for feedback and pictures, especially regarding the /400.

RJL has now mounted two UFP3 brackets, including to his wife's /400. Unfortunately, that trike also had diamondplate installed, so I still don't have objective proof that they will fit a stock /250/400. However, RJL kindly granted me permission to post our e-mails, and I think his comments should encourage /400 owners.

-------------------
I installed diamond plate on my wife's 400, which made the bracket installation a piece of cake. However, installing the diamond plate on her 400 was not easy due to difficulty in aligning the speed nuts with the holes in the rugs (diamond plate). Also, the front spacers had to be ground down on opposing edges in order to get them to fit flush in the mounting holes in the floorboard sub-structure. After working out the alignment problems, all was well.

SO RJL, YOU HAD TO MODIFY THE /400 SPACERS IN ORDER TO FIT THE DIAMONDPLATE. WHAT EXACTLY DID YOU HAVE TO DO TO THEM?

The stock aluminum spacers for the 400 were all the same size for each of the three mounting holes on each rug. However, the depression (round slot) that the front spacer slid into was more oval than round which required the spacer to be beveled on one surface only on opposing edges. There was no way to get the spacer to seat flush with the top surface of the depression (the floorboard sub-structure) without altering it. Grinding the two edges down about an 1/8" at a 45 degree angle produced the desired result and they then fit flush.

THAT SOUNDS LIKE A LOT OF WORK, NOT PLUG AND PLAY AT ALL. WAS THIS NECESSARY BECAUSE OF THE UFPs, OR SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE OF THE DIAMONDPLATE?

After having taken my wife's 400 apart for this mod, I see no reason why the brackets would not work on an un-modified 400. The only difficult part of the installation would be in determining the speednut locations under the rubber rug, so that the holes could be punched through the rug precisely to match their location. Once that is done it is a simple matter of inserting the button head screws through the bracket, then through the rug into the speednut beneath. I don't believe that you would even need the aluminum spacers to complete the installation because the width and strength of the bracket would disperse the load as the screws are tightened into the rug. There is no doubt in my mind that your brackets would fit a 400.

EDIT: Subsequent to this post, it was later proven by GlowGuy that the UFPs can mount directly to a stock /400 rubber floorboard (described later in this thread).

RJL, THOSE FOOTPEGS ARE BIG AND ROUND - ARE THEY A 3/8" SHAFT?

The pegs were purchased from J & P Cycles (jpcycles.com) for $34.99 per pair, Item Number 5300130. I liked them better than the aluminum pegs because the round pegs have no alignment issues as does the flat surface on the aluminum pegs relative to the rider's feet positions on the bike. One drawback with these round rubber covered pegs is that they require a 1/2" mounting hole, which required me to open the size of the mounting holes on the brackets... again, no big problem.

I SEE YOU ELECTED TO USE THE RUBBER BUMPERS.

I used the bumpers on each bike and they worked very well in protecting the plastic from the bolt heads.

SO WHAT ARE YOUR OVERALL IMPRESSIONS?

On both the 400 and the 500 the brackets fit like gloves... a testimonial to your excellent design and engineering. We took the bikes out and tested the function of the pegs. It is an outstanding benefit being able to extend the legs. The brackets worked great! Thank you.

I installed my set of UFP3 foot peg brackets this past weekend. Installation was a breeze. I pulled the rubber rugs up, used a dental pick I picked up at the hardware store to poke very small holes in the rugs right above where the screws are. I then took the rugs off completely. I used a 5mm leather punch to knock out the holes that I had marked with the dental pick.

Back out to the bike, unscrewed the screws that I would be replacing. The holes I had punched were just barely big enough for the screws that Jeff had included, meaning that I could stick them through the rugs with the brackets on and the screws wouldn't fall out. So with the whole assembly put together, I threw it on the scooter, flattened out the back end of the rug and then screwed down the brackets. Job done.

Well, then I decided to put in the rubber bumpers that I had Jeff send me. This was the hardest part of the job. I had to get on my back next to the scoot to try and force them through the holes. It would have been much easier to install the bumpers before putting the brackets on the scoot. Even with that, the whole project took maybe 30 minutes.

I still need to get some footpegs. I might also consider some type of grip tape for the top of the brackets.

Overall impression is that this is the simplest way to get footpegs on your MP3. I didn't use any spacers or anything like that, just "plug and play" as it were. Thanks Jeff.

Hah! I cannot imagine getting those bumpers on with the brackets attached - you have more patience than me, that's for sure. It took me about five minutes to poke the bumpers through the mounting hole as it is. You have to admit, once they're mounted, those bumpers are not coming off on their own!

For my information, what exactly is involved with "pulling up" the rugs - are there other screws, clips, etc that hold them down?

I love the idea of making a pilot hole and then following up with a leather punch. I guess one could also use a drill backed by a piece of wood?

One note - it appears in your top view that there is some slot visible aft of the rear screw of the left bracket. The brackets need to be shoved as far forward while tightening as you can get them because if the bracket and floorboard arcs conform to one another, the entire assembly is stronger. If you have any appreciable gap under the arc of the bracket, loosen the screws and retighten while pushing the bracket forward.

Waiting to see how it all works out with pegs mounted. BTW LarryLarry75 posted some pix of UFP3s in another thread with what looks like all-black pegs (how cool would that be?)...unless that's another camera angle optical illusion... EDIT: Larry confirms that they're chrome with black inserts (there are some featured in this very thread, I believe), it was just the camera angle. Oh well.

The rugs have rubber plugs molded into the underside that match up to some holes in the floorboard and are just press fit into place. So they pull up and go back into place very easy. The rugs are pretty thick too, maybe .5cm or more, I didn't think to measure them. Due to their thickness and the thickness of the brackets, I didn't think it necessary to install any spacers underneath the rugs. It all seems secure and, yes, both sides are pushed as far forward as they can so that the arcs match up.

Other than pegs, I think I will look for some of that outdoor grip tape designed for stairs to go over the top of the brackets.

Hopefully my check will soon arrive at Jeff's so my brackets will soon be in the mail.
I bought a pair of these J&P Cycles foot pegs. The web page states "Diameter:3/8″' as per Jeff's direction but the package states "Bolt on 5/16" mount bolts." The part number on the package matches correctly. I called J&P and the guy on the phone says the 3/8" refers to the width of the square mounting piece which is obviously wrong as it is 5/8". My caliper says the outside diameter of the bolt threads is 0.3755". I assume I have the right pegs?

Can't wait to try them out.

Hi Fuzzy, just received your check. We're in for snow tomorrow but I'll try to get the UFPs to the post office this weekend.

Your numbers are a mystery. It sounds like you bought external thread pegs, right?. Ideally you want internal thread (that is, the pegs would have a threaded hole for you to insert a screw into, rather than a threaded shaft sticking out of the end). The reason is there is not enough room between the bike plastic and the top hole to fit a nut. On the other hand, you also purchased bumpers (which would typically go in the top hole) so I imagine you weren't planning on using the top hole so it won't be a problem anyway. A 3/8" thread is 0.350" true diameter, and the UFP thru hole is 0.357". The shoulder of a 3/8" screw is 0.370", I assume you are measuring across the threads and not a shoulder? It certainly does not sound like you have a 10mm, although 10mm is also a popular size for bike pegs.

Did the pegs come with matching nuts? If not and you have to go to Home Depot anyway, bring the pegs and start trying screws [edit, duh:] nuts. Then you'll know for sure.

Fuzzy, you are going to like what the UFPs bring to your ride. I installed mine almost a month ago and have only had two chances since to ride a highway and use them, and they really make a difference. I think the real proof in the pudding will come during serious touring time for me, when the rains finally let up.

I had been following this and the other threads in regards finishing the UFPs and when mine arrived I tried a different tactic. We have a bead blast (sand blast) machine handy so within five minutes I had the brackets and footpegs a nice satiny, even tone. They look great, fit great and ride nice. Sure you could find a machine shop or something locally to get the same finish if desired. Here's some photos, and kudos again to Jeff for this product!

Cheers!

Jeff,
The pegs are internal thread with a bolt supplied. The measuremanet is the bolt and the extra 0.005 could be trying to get the caliper square on the bolt. They are the same pegs rmmes installed and Maynard Schweigert included a picture of. It just threw me to have a 3/8" specification in the JP web page then open the package and see a 5/16" on the foot peg's shrink wrap.

If bad weather keeps you from the post office, I can wait. Don't take any safety risks on my account. There is a chance of snow in our forecast tonight but I think we will be just south of the snow line. Guys at work are taking bets if I will ride in tomorrow, but if there is any sign of ice on the road I'll be in my 4 wheel drive truck.

BravoTwoFour that finish looks great. I'll have to check around. Any particular specifications as to what material is in the sand blasting equipment/

B24 had already shared those pix with me but I get green with envy every time I see them. I think I'll have to do that to my UFPs over the winter.

(Or is it a sign that we're getting completely carried away when we start modding our mods? )

Just a reminder boys and especially girls, there is exactly one set of UFPs remaining, a lovely little single-hole UFP1 perfect for anyone between 5'6 and 5'8 tall! Only $75...

Otherwise see post #2 of this thread re. getting on the spring waiting list.

I got mine.

Mine arrived on Thursday. I took them with me today when I went to pick up my bike in Atlanta where it was being serviced. Used their bench grinder polishing wheel on them to buff them up which improved looks significantly. Installed them there in 5 minutes and all at Scooter Superstore were impressed. My foot pegs are the ones from JP Cycle that rmmes bought.

Unfortunately my only test so far was sitting on it in the shop and I think I will be totally pleased. The ride home was with my 400 in the back of my pick up. Arrived home in a major down pour (3" rain forecast tonight) so I didn't even unload from back of truck. Hopefully will get a test ride and pictures tomorrow.

I had to go to town to run an errand. Took the long way home for a total of around 30 miles. Bottom line I love my new foot pegs. I now have three foot positions, 1. On the rug, 2. On the foot pegs and 3. Heal on rug and toe on foot peg. I think I have lost my desire for the seat to be higher and further back for my 34" inseam and 6'2" frame.

Started raining again as I pulled into my driveway so still no pictures.

If you feel your leg position is cramped on an MP3 or just want to be able to have multiple positons to minimize leg fatigue you need to consider a pair of Jeff's foot peg brackets. Well made, easy installation and fair price for what you get.

One thing. I tried installing the wave lock washer recommended by Maynard Schweigert. They will not fit between the male and female portions of the pivot. The nut provided for the pivot bolt is a self locking nut with the nylon insert. I played with how much to tighten the nut and found a happy medium for foot peg staying in selected position without being too hard to move.

I also bought the chrome plugs Maynard Schweigert suggested and they give it a much nicer finished look.

How much are the brackets currently going for?

Let me explain what is going on with Maynard's/Fuzzy's "wave washer." As explained early in this thread, an MP3 can do some quite amazing things and it is theoretically possible for an MP3 footpeg to contact the ground under certain highly unusual, very aggressive situations. It is therefore absolutely crucial that if you raise your footpeg, it stays up.

Some pegs, like my Dixies, work off of just plain friction. You have to force them up or down, and there they stay. Others work on a toggle principle, like the way a light switch is either on or off. They move fairly easily but once moved, tend to stay where they are. The passenger footpegs on higher-end motorcycles work this way.

Whether they work by toggles or by friction or some other mechanism, the pegs used with a UFP *MUST* stay where you put them, this is an important safety consideration!
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Mvtroiano, pricing and stock conditions for the UFP brackets are found in Posts #1 and #2 of this thread, updated regularly.

1st, another 40 miles with my foot pegs and just love them more.

2nd I did not get the wave washer in place but was able to adjust the lock nut so the pegs stay up or down.

3rd. If I expect to be close to a situation that possibly will drag the pegs I will have them in the up postion.

4th. If I am unexpectedly in a situation to drag the pegs I won't have time to get a toe under them and flip them up. They are designed to give way if they impact the ground attached to a moving bike. Many with cruisers have worn away much of the end of the pegs from dragging the pavement. They consider the pegs to be a replaceable wear part that warns them of leaning close to the limit. I have felt my rear wheel move dragging the kick stand hard enough to take some weight off the rear wheel. A similar situation with the pegs would fold them and not take much weight from the front wheels. If I am missing something here please enlighten me.

Nope, that's it in a nutshell. The Dixies rely solely upon friction, they are VERY difficult to raise (I would not want to trust being able to slip my toe under them and flip them up) and if I loosened the screw to make it easier to raise or lower, they would simply fall right back down when lifted. Which might not be bad, but due to their design if they did catch on something, they would probably not flip up on their own. So it sounds like you have made the wiser choice in pegs.

Got home in time today to take some pictures before dark.

130 miles riding so far and nothing but great. I expect to do a couple hundred on Saturday for my first distance test.

What did you do with the REAL Fuzzy? He has a BLUE jacket!

Mesh is kind of cold this time of year even in Gerogia.

YHi Vis Yellow shows up but has to be washed more often.

Thanks Fuzzy, can I presume that the caption for your picture is supposed to say "Note relaxed..." rather than "Not relaxed..."?

Fuzzy has included (4th pix down) an excellent shot of proper installation. Note how the mounting screws are located at the extreme rear of the bracket slots. That's because Fuzzy shoved the brackets forward while tightening the screws down, which is exactly how it should be done. If you find your brackets "warping" under load, check those screw locations.

I also want to call attention to Fuzzy's bottom picture of his pegs folded up. You'll note that they are not parallel to the peg "ears" but somewhat more vertical. If you use flat pegs and want to ride heel-toe (2nd pix), this is the preferred orientation because it permits the full peg surface to contact the sole of your boot.

Thanks again Fuzzy!