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@tairuhn avatar
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LX50
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Location: North Carolina
 
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@tairuhn avatar
LX50
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UTC quote
Hi all,

I've been waiting on a battery relay from my scooter shop and, in the meantime, have been kick-starting my LX50. I feel that I am pretty darn good at it, and usually get it started on the first kick.

HOWEVER--after riding it on Tuesday night, I couldn't get it started on Wednesday...nor this morning. I don't know WHAT is going on and it is SO FUCKING FRUSTRATING! ...as I'm sure you all know. Is this just me not getting it right? Is there a reason that it wouldn't kick start at all?

I appreciate any help, so thanks in advance!
@zippy avatar
UTC

Hooked
Dragon Red LX 150 (Hillary)
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Hooked
@zippy avatar
Dragon Red LX 150 (Hillary)
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UTC quote
IMHO

If the kick starter is anything like the LX-150 I would wait for the relay and

not kick it. The damage to the cover would cost a lot more in money and

wait time.

Paul
@smallstate avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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Molto Verboso
@smallstate avatar
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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UTC quote
you could bumpstart it until you get it fixed.
@smallstate avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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Molto Verboso
@smallstate avatar
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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UTC quote
can you bumpstart a scooter without a clutch?
@menhir avatar
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UTC quote
First...cut down on the caffeine a bit.... Razz emoticon

Like I'm one to talk...harsh language and frustration is usually my own first course of action, too. Razz emoticon

Since it sounds like you already know how to use the kick-start (brakes applied and all that), what is it actually doing when you try?
Nothing?
Sputtering but not fully starting?
I've heard some say that you can't kick-start it if the battery is totally dead and/or gone. I don't know that for sure.

One thing for sure...you are risking damage to the CVT cover if you go at it too furiously. Be careful or you'll really have something to swear about.

Let us know exactly what it is or isn't doing.
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UTC quote
To follow up on my own post...I almost forgot:

If it feels like the scooter is almost-but-not-quite starting, try applying the throttle wide-open as you kick.

Previous warnings still apply, though.
@silver_streak avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@silver_streak avatar
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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UTC quote
smallstate wrote:
can you bumpstart a scooter without a clutch?
No.

It HAS a clutch, actually, but it is centrifugal... and there is no way it can be engaged without getting a running engine up well above idle speed.
OP
@tairuhn avatar
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LX50
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LX50
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UTC quote
thanks guys...it sounds like it is 'shuddering,' sort of. not quite almost-starting but also not totally dead. i did try to open the throttle all the way, without luck.

i would know if i cracked the casing, right? and you think that it is more likely that my kicking is not as on-point as usual instead of an engine problem?

and you are right about the caffeine...at least i don't have to go to work today!
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tairuhn wrote:
i would know if i cracked the casing, right?
You would see it, for sure.

At this point I would take Zippy's good advice and wait for the relay.

Even if you do get it kick-started, you're going to have to do it all over again when you get to were you are going. It's not fun not riding, I know, buy you are risking more than you gain.

Good luck.
@starreem avatar
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Ossessionato
07 GTS250(RIP), 07 LX150, Several Lambrettas
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@starreem avatar
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UTC quote
Maybe you've just flooded it?
@xantufrog avatar
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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UTC quote
When it doesn't start, have you checked to see if it is because you are getting no spark? I had my CDI go, and when they do it often results in INTERMITTENT lack of spark, which makes it so frustrating to diagnose... your instinct would be "it never sparks with a bad CDI"

Check for spark when it doesn't work - the engine will make all sorts of noise when turning over which has nothing to do with whether gas is actually getting burned.
@ronin avatar
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Addicted
Vespa Rally 180 BMW R1150R Suzuki Burgman 400
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@ronin avatar
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UTC quote
And of course the obvious... not that I've done it or anything but be sure, and I mean really sure, that the "kill" switch is in the "run" position. It happens!

Edit - and also hold a brake lever! Not that it matters for you, but Hondas also have a no-start interlock when the stand is in the up position. Makes sense I guess, but it's one more thing to go wacky when you least need it.
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2 - Many
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UTC quote
Silver Streak wrote:
smallstate wrote:
can you bumpstart a scooter without a clutch?
No.

It HAS a clutch, actually, but it is centrifugal... and there is no way it can be engaged without getting a running engine up well above idle speed.
I think you knew what smallstate meant.
@nightwing avatar
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2007 LX 150 (memories)
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UTC quote
Ronin wrote:
And of course the obvious... not that I've done it or anything but be sure, and I mean really sure, that the "kill" switch is in the "run" position. It happens!

Edit - and also hold a brake lever! Not that it matters for you, but Hondas also have a no-start interlock when the stand is in the up position. Makes sense I guess, but it's one more thing to go wacky when you least need it.
The brake lever only matters when starting with the key. The kick start doesn't require it being held.
@silver_streak avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@silver_streak avatar
2007 Vespa LX 190, 2011 LXV150ie
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UTC quote
ScooterRaton wrote:
Silver Streak wrote:
smallstate wrote:
can you bumpstart a scooter without a clutch?
No.

It HAS a clutch, actually, but it is centrifugal... and there is no way it can be engaged without getting a running engine up well above idle speed.
I think you knew what smallstate meant.
I think I know what Smallstate meant, but I sure as hell don't know what it is that you are implying.
@scootmom avatar
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Molto Verboso
'09 BV250, '02 ET2 '07 LX150
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@scootmom avatar
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UTC quote
[ I had my CDI go, and when they do it often results in INTERMITTENT lack of spark, which makes it so frustrating to diagnose... your instinct would be "it never sparks with a bad CDI"

Check for spark when it doesn't work - the engine will make all sorts of noise when turning over which has nothing to do with whether gas is actually getting burned.[/quote]

Ok, I'm green....how do you test to see if your spark plug is, um, "sparking"?? My scoot has not been starting intermittantly for 3 years now and it's making me crazy! I think I replaced the CDI last summer and it ran good for a while, but now, it's not..... Sometimes you can get it to catch with the kick starter, but generally,not. (I also had to walk 2 miles to lunch yesterday because the scoot wouldn't start, and then back to work, only to have it refuse to start after work, too.)

Help? It tries to start but just doesn't "catch".

AND, why the heck do my "quotes" not show up in the boxes?
@harvey avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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@harvey avatar
2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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UTC quote
scootmom wrote:
scootmom wrote:
I had my CDI go, and when they do it often results in INTERMITTENT lack of spark, which makes it so frustrating to diagnose... your instinct would be "it never sparks with a bad CDI"

Check for spark when it doesn't work - the engine will make all sorts of noise when turning over which has nothing to do with whether gas is actually getting burned.
Ok, I'm green....how do you test to see if your spark plug is, um, "sparking"?? My scoot has not been starting intermittantly for 3 years now and it's making me crazy! I think I replaced the CDI last summer and it ran good for a while, but now, it's not..... Sometimes you can get it to catch with the kick starter, but generally,not. (I also had to walk 2 miles to lunch yesterday because the scoot wouldn't start, and then back to work, only to have it refuse to start after work, too.)

Help? It tries to start but just doesn't "catch".

AND, why the heck do my "quotes" not show up in the boxes?
I think you may have had an extra [ to confuse the software- Check this post by 'quoting' it and use Preview to see what it looks like.

Harvey
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
To check for a spark, you
1) unscrew the spark plug and remove it from the cylinder.
2) then you reattach the HT wire to it
3) switch the vehicle to "on" as you normally would to start.
4) ground the spark plug on something - usually the outside of the cylinder itself. To "ground" it you touch the metal rim of the spark plug (the part with the threads) to the cylinder.
5) attempt to start the scooter with your method of choice - kickstart or button (again, with ignition switches and everything all on)

When doing this, wear good thick gloves and don't touch the metal of the spark plug itself! Hold the HT wire or rubber part of the cap to press the plug against the cylinder to avoid shock.

You should see a nice strong spark at the tip of the plug when attempting to start. Blue = very nice. Also, ideally the spark should be nice and centered in the electrode and fairly consistent in how it jumps, if not your plug might be dirty or worn.

The key issue I ran into with my bad CDI is that whenever my mechanic tested the scooter it would start just fine. Therefore, testing for spark didn't do anything... it was sparking fine. But without fail when I'd take it home it would act up again :-p finally I got it to not start for them, and we were able to pin that to a lack of spark.

I was very surprised to learn that a bad CDI could result in intermittent function like this, but the mechanic said it is not uncommon, so it is worth checking for a spark when the scoot ISN'T starting

For me it would usually start right back up if turned off. But if it sat for a half hour or more I was toast... could kick myself hoarse (whatever that means )

Anyway, just some experience to share, could be pertinent to intermittent starting difficulties
@scootmom avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'09 BV250, '02 ET2 '07 LX150
Joined: UTC
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
 
Molto Verboso
@scootmom avatar
'09 BV250, '02 ET2 '07 LX150
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UTC quote
Ah ha!! This spark plug issue may be just what I need...I know they replaced it last summer when I had the CDI replaced, but.... it would be just my luck for it not to be working. The problem is VERY intermittant, and often impossible to prove when I have it into the shop.

About the quotes. The [ is put on the script when I hit "quote", I don't put them on. Sometimes I get boxes and sometimes, not. I did use the preview, that's how I knew it "did it again" when I went back to post the "why".

Maybe I'm cursed.....
OP
@tairuhn avatar
UTC

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LX50
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@tairuhn avatar
LX50
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Location: North Carolina
UTC quote
Hey guys--thanks for the help. This is the OP, and I charged up my battery before checking the sparkplugs just to check--and while just trying to kickstart it again my scoot just started smoking from the electrical compartment--where the faulty battery relay is. And smelling like burning wires.

Definitely not good...
@zippy avatar
UTC

Hooked
Dragon Red LX 150 (Hillary)
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Location: Alpena, Michigan, USA
 
Hooked
@zippy avatar
Dragon Red LX 150 (Hillary)
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UTC quote
Oh Shit !!!

Paul
@copper_dolphin avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
LX150 Darling Plum; GTS 250 Dragon Red; Honda Big Ruckus Demented Bastard
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Location: Sacramento, Ca.
 
Molto Verboso
@copper_dolphin avatar
LX150 Darling Plum; GTS 250 Dragon Red; Honda Big Ruckus Demented Bastard
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UTC quote
Something does not smell right.... What ever was smoking, was probably bad and why you could not get it started. Sounds like something shorted out and now is burned up. I think your problems have gotten worse... sorry..
@scootmom avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'09 BV250, '02 ET2 '07 LX150
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Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
 
Molto Verboso
@scootmom avatar
'09 BV250, '02 ET2 '07 LX150
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UTC quote
Copper Dolphin wrote:
Something does not smell right.... What ever was smoking, was probably bad and why you could not get it started. Sounds like something shorted out and now is burned up. I think your problems have gotten worse... sorry..
Hmmm. Mine was having problems starting, then suddenly started leaking oil and blowing white smoke when it would start....I decided to let the dealer that allegedly"fixed" it exchange it for a 09 BV250. I'm much happier, and have far fewer problems!
@thisare avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
ET4 150 (with LX mirrors)
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UTC quote
Ronin wrote:
And of course the obvious... not that I've done it or anything but be sure, and I mean really sure, that the "kill" switch is in the "run" position. It happens!

Edit - and also hold a brake lever! Not that it matters for you, but Hondas also have a no-start interlock when the stand is in the up position. Makes sense I guess, but it's one more thing to go wacky when you least need it.
and make sure the key is in the correct position... the number of times (well twice actually, but it only happens when people are watching) that I have been furiously kicking only to notice that the key hasn't been turned to the correct position
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