Modern Vespa

What exactly is a "navigator tool". Anyone know? Is this a Vespa specific tool? What does it do and why would I want/need one?

I looked in the LX150 workshop manual and searched the entire required tools list. I found no reference to a navigation tool. I also did a web search and could find nothing referenced for scooters or even motorcycles.

I guess it would be helpful if we knew the context of this request, and how that tool is referenced to a Vespa. It may be a slang term for a GPS.

As a life long boater, a "Navigator's Tool Set" comes to mind, and I'm sure you know the basic elements for that. Other than that, I have never heard the term used. Unless it is a non-US colloquialism.

Since I haven't needed on in over 50 years of maintaining a Vespa, I'm not sure you will.

Now, if there is another name for it, I might tell you you can't live without one.

Al

OK ... I thought some of you may know because I really have no clue. I am assuming it may be a "Vespa specific tool" which can diagnose problems. I am assuming it is some kind of computer?

It has been suggested by my dealer in Italy that I should buy one in order to identify a problem I am having with the idle on my brand new LX125ie.

However, it is really expensive and I am wondering if:

1) Is this is an absolutely necessary purchase?
2) Will my mechanic be able to figure out how to use it?
3) Given that I have no Vespa or Piaggio dealer here, is this the only way to get my idle problem sorted out?
4) Can I rent one rather than buy it?

Although I am being offered a discounted price, it is still very expensive and there are no guarantees that my scooter will operate properly after the problem is identified. I don't even know if my mechanic will be capable of fixing the problem.

I am just wondering if I should cut my losses and sell the scooter for scrap or if buying this tool is the likely solution to the problem and if it will come in handy for the future for my 2008, carbureted LX as well ... or is it only going to work on the fuel injected model?

That sounds like the new diagnostic box they're using...

How much are they offering it for?

I guess so ... but all the message said was that it is "an informatic instrument". We have a bit of a language barrier ... I took the leap that this means it is a diagnostic tool and possibly some kind of computer.

It's pretty bloody expensive even with their kind offer of a discounted price. I have sent you a private message.

I wonder if the diagnostic tool sold by Motorsports would work. It might be worth a phone call to Max. I think they've been out of stock for a while. I also think Stareem has one.

http://www.scooterwest.com/items/?_pageCCS=t#page=/item_details/Diagnostic-Scan-Tool-and-Software-for-MIU/1705

Unfortunately, the LX models are conspicuously missing from that list. Nice price though, I wish this tool was even close to that reasonable. I would buy it in a heartbeat.

TrafficJammer, it is a shame that you are not able to ride your brand new scooter. I don't understand why Piaggio isn't repairing your scooter free under warranty. Does a warranty not apply to your LX for some reason?

Alice, what you may not understand is that I live on a tiny island in the Caribbean. How are they to fix something that I can't take to them? There are NO dealers here.

This is a really unfortunate situation and both Piaggio and my dealer are trying to come up with a workable solution. The problem (so far) is that the one solution is very expensive and I am not at all sure it is worth investing more money in a scooter which I have no way of knowing is going to be repairable ... even if I buy the tool and even if my mechanic is able to decipher what is wrong.

You see, I didn't realize I would be getting a fuel injected model. My guy is great with carbureted scooters ... but I don't know if he knows enough about fuel injected models to actually fix it!

I am just at a loss and was hoping that someone would jump in and tell me that this thing is a smart investment, will be invaluable in the future and to go ahead and buy it ... OR ... tell me to cut my losses, put my pretty new Vespa in the garden and call it "Art"!

Up until recently the LX had a carb, so no computer to read. I bet that the engineers at Piaggio use the same brain for a bunch of their scoots. I'd sure want to know for sure, not just assume that it won't work.

At least email them.



cheers

I am in communication with Piaggio and my dealer in Italy. Unfortunately, it is Friday night and they have gone home. I was only trying to find out if anyone knew what this thing is and what it does. I am not assuming it won't work ... I have no clue what it is! But I am concerned that I could very well be throwing good money after bad. Did I mention that the tool is very expensive?

I meant the motorsport diagnostic tool. The cheaper one that uses a laptop to read the codes and change settings.

Ahha! I get it now. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Well I guess it is worth asking ... but since the LX fuel injected models are not in the US yet, I somehow doubt anyone would know for sure? It's certainly worth sending a message though. Thanks!

I don't have a PC laptop ... but I guess I could borrow one from someone. Everything I own is Mac.

Jeeze, I wonder if this "navigator" tool has to be used in conjunction with a PC too? So many questions and doubts and a whole weekend to stew over it. Man, I wish my dealer had waited until Monday to drop this one on me!

Oh well, I have to get ready for dinner with some friends ... so I'll try not to think about it for a while at least. Happy Friday all!

Ask the dealer to ship you another new scooter with a carb and to prepay freight back for the one you have.

You might also suggest that they put their tech and the special tool on a plane so they can fix it on site.

I think I'd rather remain reasonable ... at least for the time being! But thinking about option #2 ... it may be less expensive to pay a tech from the Miami area to come here (with the tool) and fix it! Hmmmm. Food for thought!

This is good guys ... at least I now realize I may have other options rather than the rather dismal thought of changing Buzz's name to "Art"!

Keep those ideas coming ... no matter how extreme they may seem. (This does not apply to you Yardsale!)

TrafficJammer, of course I know that you live on a tiny island.

I'm just surprised that Piaggio does not offer a warranty on your scooter simply because there is no dealer on your island. Nightwing's suggestion of having them trade your scooter for a carbeurated model didn't seem that far-fetched to me. Putting your scooter in the garden and calling it "Art" is the most extreme solution yet!

I have no idea what a 'navigator tool' is. What's 'henway'?

Hay sorry to you are having such a problem with you scooter that is a bummer. It looks like the tool they are talking about is a scan tool. It should be able to talk to your computer and read fault codes. It should also give the user a look at what the computer see for sensors. It would only be good in the hands of a person that understands EFI systems. Question are there people on your island that work on cars? The computer systems on car's are way more complex that any little one lunged scooter. Second would be a boat marina with a good tech. The marine industry has been running EFI for years. A good tech should be able to look at the sensors to the computer a tell if they are in the range. You could just have a bad temp sensor or an oxygen sensor. There could be something just disconnected. Lots the the sensors used are universal enough that with a good tech and some service info the problem could be worked out.
Chris

About 6 or 7 lbs.

A capon, maybe, but not a hen!

Thanks ctl73, I really appreciate your suggestions. As I am in the business, I know several people in the marine industry and perhaps one of them (together with my scooter mechanic) could make this work. I'm just concerned about the costs. By the time I buy the tool, land it here and hire a good marine tech plus my scooter guy ... I am looking dangerously close at the price of a new Modern Buddy.

I guess I have some hard decisions to make. As unfortunate as it may be, Buzz may make a better planter than a scooter when all is said and done.

This all came at me rather suddenly. I had no idea just how serious or how expensive this problem would turn out to be and it came as quite a shock to say the least. Before I go off and get too depressed, I'll wait until I hear back from Piaggio USA ... who only got involved at a very late stage this afternoon. Perhaps they will come up with a more workable solution to my dilemma. One can always hope. Keep your fingers crossed for me! I'm going to try to keep good thoughts over the weekend and I'm not going to rush to judgement on this. I'll explore every suggestion before I make my final decision.

Try to get piaggio to ship you the tool on loan. This is there problem and yours. There no reason you should have to own a diagnostic tool that next to no one has. That sounds crazy and there is no way of knowing if the tool is the answer. Piaggio could ship you a new computer, wire harness and every thing that connects to it for less than the price of a new scooter. Let someone that knows EFI look at it.
Good luck
Chris

The Navigator tool costs about GBP800 plus GBP200 per year for updates. A bluetooth capable PC (usually a laptop) has to be available too. Even here in the UK dealers are only getting one in when absolutely necessary.

Getting Piaggio to loan you one may be problematic - but seeing as if they had sold you a carbed model (as you had expected) you wouldn't have this problem, and seeing as how there really is a problem with the scooter, they should do their best to get it working - or replaced.

I suspect if you offered a refundable deposit they might send you one, complete with instructions - this would be cheaper than replacing your new scoot with a carbed model. Normally only registered dealers can use them as they have to be individually 'coded' to a dealer's account.

The older diagnostic unit won't do the necessary with the latest Piaggio models.