OP
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
The next time yours pulls right out of the bike and isn't welded in place from years of rust and dirt, say a little "thank you" prayer to the scooter gods.

I spent hours last night trying to remove mine out of the GS160mk2. It was locked in there so tight even my trusty impact wrench couldn't budge it.

I tried heat, i tried PB blaster, etc. I ended up cutting the hex end off the bolt with a dremel tool, and it's STILL stuck in there...20 broken cutting wheels later.

advice ?
@jeremy_w avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
79 P200e, 81 100 Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1443
Location: Iowa
 
Molto Verboso
@jeremy_w avatar
79 P200e, 81 100 Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1443
Location: Iowa
UTC quote
Re: Swingarm bolt removal
Rover Eric wrote:
...advice ?
Give it to me. Razz emoticon

You need one of those things the guy from "No Country For Old Men" uses to kill people and knock knobs off of doors.
@koenig_blues avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5804
Location: Indo
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@koenig_blues avatar
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5804
Location: Indo
UTC quote
sculpture tools and a big hammer Razz emoticon
UTC

Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 325
 
Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 325
UTC quote
Perhaps you could push out the remainder with a gear puller.
If a U-shaped grove wore in the bolt, it's going to be difficult.
@louispain avatar
UTC

Hooked
Cosa and P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 204
Location: Spain
 
Hooked
@louispain avatar
Cosa and P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 204
Location: Spain
UTC quote
Drilled out part of the swinging arm pivot bolt on a 1978 Suzuki GS 1000.
Vespa should be easier it´s a little small bolt

Used some cheap Cobalt drill bits. Small one to start/pilot with and progressively bigger to expand the hole. Plumbers footprints (pipe wrench?) on the other end.

Belted it every now and then with a metal drift and lump hammer. Once the hole was big enough the bolt caved in.
@zwerski avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
"Thread Killer Extraordinaire!"
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1303
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
 
Molto Verboso
@zwerski avatar
"Thread Killer Extraordinaire!"
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1303
Location: San Jose, CA, USA
UTC quote
Re: Swingarm bolt removal
Jeremy W wrote:
You need one of those things the guy from "No Country For Old Men" uses to kill people and knock knobs off of doors.
Yeah! "Anton Chigur" the fawker!
@ktmdriver avatar
UTC

Hooked
SS-180 x 1 (dead) SS-180 x1 (3'rd times the charm)SS-90 x 1 GS-160 MK1 x 1 P-200e x1 TV 175 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 237
Location: San Diego, California
 
Hooked
@ktmdriver avatar
SS-180 x 1 (dead) SS-180 x1 (3'rd times the charm)SS-90 x 1 GS-160 MK1 x 1 P-200e x1 TV 175 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 237
Location: San Diego, California
UTC quote
Mig weld another axle bolt onto the threaded part, then sledge hammer the extension and that should break it free. Once that has happened, cut the extension off and then use a punch to get the rest out. Regarding using heat, get the Mapp gas out, it's much hotter than propane. Heat before hammering.
@killo avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
I have a few scooters....
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2229
Location: San Antonio, TX
 
Ossessionato
@killo avatar
I have a few scooters....
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2229
Location: San Antonio, TX
UTC quote
I had one stuck in my Allstate engine. I cut off the 2 ends of the bolt so I could get the engine out of the frame. Then took a small drill bit and drilled the rubber engine buffers to get the remainder of the bolt out. A total bitch. Then there's replacing the buffers...
@gatekeep avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1974 Rally USA 200 1980 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1809
Location: Pioneer Valley Ma.
 
Molto Verboso
@gatekeep avatar
1974 Rally USA 200 1980 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1809
Location: Pioneer Valley Ma.
UTC quote
Yeah, you need to get something to push it though.5lb.sledge ect.
Soke that bitch with Kroil.
Heat too..

I put Never Sieze on all
bigger pain in the ass bolts/studs.
@starreem avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
07 GTS250(RIP), 07 LX150, Several Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2834
Location: Raleigh, NC
 
Ossessionato
@starreem avatar
07 GTS250(RIP), 07 LX150, Several Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2834
Location: Raleigh, NC
UTC quote
I had a tough time getting the bolt to move out of my SX150. What eventually worked for me, (and it only worked because there was thread still in the tube) was to remove a nut on one side, and tighten the nut on the other side to get the bolt moving in the tube- like a puller. A bit of back and forth like that eventually got me enough movement to bang it out with a drift pin.

I figured my only other option to get the bolt moving was to weld the nut on one side to get the bolt to turn.
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
Oh god, mine was SO difficult to get out. It took me hours with a friend. I put a new bolt in and greased it up like a southern frying pan when I reinstalled the engine to try to ward off a similar experience in my future
@chad avatar
UTC

Olivia Newton-John
p200, vbb, gt200, px150, vnb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4494
Location: chippewa falls, wisconsin
 
Olivia Newton-John
@chad avatar
p200, vbb, gt200, px150, vnb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4494
Location: chippewa falls, wisconsin
UTC quote
Re: Swingarm bolt removal
Jeremy W wrote:
Rover Eric wrote:
...advice ?
Give it to me. Razz emoticon

You need one of those things the guy from "No Country For Old Men" uses to kill people and knock knobs off of doors.
i was totally waiting for that guy to get his ass kicked, and then he just won and walked away.
@valkr1e avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
1962 Cushman VNB3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 70
Location: KY
 
Enthusiast
@valkr1e avatar
1962 Cushman VNB3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 70
Location: KY
UTC quote
get a hand full of drill bits and get to work. I run into this every time I do suspension or axle work on my A6.. unless you have a week and the good will of the pb blaster gods, it's about the only way.
@oopsclunkthud avatar
UTC

Banned
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9052
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
@oopsclunkthud avatar
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9052
Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
gatekeep wrote:
Yeah, you need to get something to push it though.5lb.sledge ect.
Soke that bitch with Kroil.
Heat too..

I put Never Sieze on all
bigger pain in the ass bolts/studs.
I have been trying to remember the name of "Kroil" for 15 years now. Thank you!
@joshzingzing avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@joshzingzing avatar
px200 cutdown,px180,px150. Puch SR. Puch scooterette
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5109
Location: west aus
UTC quote
i will always say it

eucalyptus oil!

fook knows how to get it in there though.. maybe a syringe
OP
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
i'm intrigued by the notion of a homemade 50/50 mixture of Acetone and Automatic Transmission fluid that Chad posted about recently.

Do a search for Kroil in here for the article he posted out of popular mechanics or whatever that tested the various fluids.



Oh, and still no swingarm love. It took me 2 hours last night to remove the brake pads from the pins they rest on. Lots of propane heat and PB blaster later and i was able to wrest them off with Vice Grips. Backing plate came off, and then i was done for the evening.
UTC

nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
 
nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
UTC quote
eric, am i thinking that the bolt is fused to the sleeves that are part of the rubber bushings in the arm

if thats the case, pouding on it won't make it give because there is no resistance

the rubber is cushening the blow

i would think you have to cut both ends as close to frame as possible and the pry the frame out about an 1/8 inch so the whole arm with bolt still inside drops out

then remove on bench

i don't think beating will beat this one Nerd emoticon
OP
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Jimmy - i think you're totally right. Good advice.

On the GS160 / SS180, the two bushings on each side have a steel tube inside of them ...they meet in the middle, and the swingarm is completely enclosed, so you have no access to get lube in there to loosen it. I think they moved away from that design on other engines - exposing a window so this wouldn't happen.

Anyways, i think i'm going to hunt around and see if someone has a Sawsall ... put a metal blade on it ( like for hacking out old galvanized plumbing ) and attack it from underneath in the areas between the swingarm and the frame.

At least then i'll have the engine out of the frame and hopefully can hydraulically press out the remnants of the swingarm bolt.
UTC

nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
 
nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
UTC quote
yes

even better than prying frame is to attack between the frame and arm

much better idea

remember pics for the next frustrated soul Razz emoticon
OP
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Clubmate loaned me a sawzall last night. I'll get hacking here shortly and let you know how it went down.
UTC

nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
 
nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
UTC quote
nail biting Razz emoticon
@scooterraton avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2 - Many
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
 
Ossessionato
@scooterraton avatar
2 - Many
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
UTC quote
This is better than TV!
OP
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Sawzall got the engine out of the frame in about 20 minutes last night. I flipped the frame upside down and attacked the bolt on either side with a metal saw bit and it worked great.

Got the frame prepped for bead blasting ...so when it comes back we'll see how bad the rust damage is.
UTC

Enthusiast
vespa sprint veloce p210
Joined: UTC
Posts: 52
Location: baltimore
 
Enthusiast
vespa sprint veloce p210
Joined: UTC
Posts: 52
Location: baltimore
UTC quote
Are you considering the swing arm stabilizers for the assembly?
Mine were super tight to put in (two days of prying), but it has updated the steering to acceptable.

Just wondering....

p
OP
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Hadn't considered it. Have always just used Clauss's urethane engine mounts instead of conventional rubber ones, and like them alot.
UTC

Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 466
Location: Washington MFing DC
 
Banned
Joined: UTC
Posts: 466
Location: Washington MFing DC
UTC quote
The Hot Rod Al stabilizers work amazingly. I can cross three lanes of traffic in the racer with my hands OFF the bars and just flexing an ass cheek.

But as you mentioned they can be a bitch to put in - definitely need help with it - a bottle jack shoved in there and cranked a bit over a day or so will spread the frame enough to fit them in.
UTC

Enthusiast
vespa sprint veloce p210
Joined: UTC
Posts: 52
Location: baltimore
 
Enthusiast
vespa sprint veloce p210
Joined: UTC
Posts: 52
Location: baltimore
UTC quote
I have them both on my sprint, it makes for more vibrations to the hands, but I really do like the stiffened feel to the whole frame. Initial turn ins with this setup give high confidence instead of the usual oh shit moment, followed by braking, which can get tricky on loose stuff.

I also use the longer rear shock bolt, used on P's, with my sebac. I was having grounding out issues, on left turns, but that extra 1/2" has reduced that to almost never. My JL has thanked me, personally.

Its the littlest of things that can seem to make a huge diff.
@gatekeep avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1974 Rally USA 200 1980 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1809
Location: Pioneer Valley Ma.
 
Molto Verboso
@gatekeep avatar
1974 Rally USA 200 1980 P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1809
Location: Pioneer Valley Ma.
UTC quote
The Hot Rod Al stabilizers work amazingly. I can cross three lanes of traffic in the racer with my hands OFF the bars and just flexing an ass cheek.

Lol... now that's classic Laughing emoticon
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