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Molto Verboso
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I'm trying to track down a problem I'm having with my scooter. All the evap system has been completely disconnected. The tank vent is venting straight to the ground. The scoot starts right up and runs perfectly for about 10 minutes then while idling will just die and NOT start back up again for about 45-60 minutes then will go through the process again. The spark plug is new and the air filter is clean. I'm thinking the fuel pump, idle jet, or the fuel filter. Where is the the fuel pump on the 200cc engine? I read here after searching the topic of stalling that there is a filter on the pump. ANY and all help is appreciated. I have a free day all to myself coming up and a broken scoot- not good. My dealer is 60+ miles away so that is out at this point.

Bob
⚠️ Last edited by BVBob on UTC; edited 1 time
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Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
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LEADERs don't have fuel pumps, I don't think. Fuel pumps are on the QUASAR cos it's fuel injected and needs a constant pressure from the tank. The gas tank is above the carb so it shouldn't need a pump.

Runs fine till warm, then dies?

Could it be a bum coil?
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TheO.Z. wrote:
LEADERs don't have fuel pumps, I don't think. Fuel pumps are on the QUASAR cos it's fuel injected and needs a constant pressure from the tank. The gas tank is above the carb so it shouldn't need a pump.

Runs fine till warm, then dies?

Could it be a bum coil?
On my bv the tank is below the carb. A bum coil?? I wonder.. Yesterday, I took it out after putting in some carb cleaner hoping it was a dirty jet and about 10 minutes away (at a VERY busy intersection) she died. It wouldn't restart so I pushed it to a bicycle trailhead and sat with it for about an hour. I was starting to panic so I made sure the plug lead was tight and I pushed the wires around on what I think is the coil and it started. It only went for about a mile and did it again. This time it started after waiting 10 minutes and I went straight home. Today I started it and rode it around my neighborhood for a few minutes then pulled in the drive and let it idle and it died after about 30 seconds and didn't restart. It'll fire right up tomorrow and do the same thing all over again.
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Yeah the thing that makes me think it's not fuel related is that it'll start up again without you doing anything - just waiting.

In the hour the engine might cool enough.

Might not be the coil but I'm not feeling air or fuel flow on this.
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D'oh that's right. Didn't see your avatar. On iPhone.

Any power loss at idle or at speed?
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Molto Verboso
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TheO.Z. wrote:
D'oh that's right. Didn't see your avatar. On iPhone.

Any power loss at idle or at speed?
No power loss. Just while it's idling it just shuts off and then the starter runs but won't start. It "might" have a slight miss while running at speed but that may just be my imagination.
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When did it last have valve clearances done?

When it next cuts out, undo the carb drain screw and see if the carb still has fuel in it... if nothing comes out its lack of fuel, if its full of fuel then look elsewhere.
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cheekythomas wrote:
When did it last have valve clearances done?

When it next cuts out, undo the carb drain screw and see if the carb still has fuel in it... if nothing comes out its lack of fuel, if its full of fuel then look elsewhere.
It's about due for a valve check. Just looking at the fuel filter I can see gas in there so I do think it's getting gas. I'm not sure where the carb drain screw is- I'll have to see if it is pointed out in the manual.
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changed: Stalling when warm and not restarting
Vic Mackey wrote:
I'm trying to track down a problem I'm having with my scooter. All the evap system has been completely disconnected. The tank vent is venting straight to the ground. The scoot starts right up and runs perfectly for about 10 minutes then while idling will just die and NOT start back up again for about 45-60 minutes then will go through the process again. The spark plug is new and the air filter is clean. I'm thinking the fuel pump, idle jet, or the fuel filter. Where is the the fuel pump on the 200cc engine? I read here after searching the topic of stalling that there is a filter on the pump. ANY and all help is appreciated. I have a free day all to myself coming up and a broken scoot- not good. My dealer is 60+ miles away so that is out at this point.

Bob
Well it did it again. I'm just riding on my street and then right back into the garage so I don't have to push it . As soon as it warms up and it's idling it shuts off and won't restart. Unfortunately I have no way of getting to my dealer. I need some help here. Any ideas? Runs and starts perfectly until it warms up - then just shuts off- an hour later starts right up like nothings wrong...

Bob
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If you can't find the carb drain, once it stalls you can pull the fuel line off the carb, engage the starter motor and see if you're getting a good flow of fuel.



Harvey
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Molto Verboso
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Harvey wrote:
If you can't find the carb drain, once it stalls you can pull the fuel line off the carb, engage the starter motor and see if you're getting a good flow of fuel.



Harvey
Of course I'm not a mechanic but this seems like it might be an electrical type of thing. Something seems to be getting hot and shutting down.
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It's a vacuum operated fuel pump - it could be a split in the vacuum hose to that. So OK at idle (big vacuum), not so good when revved (lower vacuum). Could also be a blocked fuel filter, or a temperature sensitive electrical device (coil is sometimes a culprit here).
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jimc wrote:
It's a vacuum operated fuel pump - it could be a split in the vacuum hose to that. So OK at idle (big vacuum), not so good when revved (lower vacuum). Could also be a blocked fuel filter, or a temperature sensitive electrical device (coil is sometimes a culprit here).
Jim- I'm thinking the coil too. I think I may call my dealer and see what he suggests. I'm more than willing to have him diagnose and repair the problem but I have no way of getting it there other than riding it and that seems to be a problem right now 8) . Wouldn't you know the weather is perfect and I have a day completely to myself coming up. Damn.
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The vacuum hose is so easy to check by eyeball that it's worth doing yourself ASAP.
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Get your self a spark tester. Ride it local till it does it's little trick then test for spark. I don't know about the vacuum line but I would check that as well.
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jimc wrote:
The vacuum hose is so easy to check by eyeball that it's worth doing yourself ASAP.
Jim do you know where it is located? The scoot is a Beverly. I dug around in there today to see if anything looked out of place but I couldn't see anything wrong.
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ctl73 wrote:
Get your self a spark tester. Ride it local till it does it's little trick then test for spark. I don't know about the vacuum line but I would check that as well.
Checking for spark while it's in the midst of it's thing would be a way of seeing if it's the coil I take it.
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Yes, that's the point of the test. Could be CDI or whatever - but the coil is the cheapest and most likely culprit if no spark.

If no spark, then disconnect the feed from CDI to the coil, and do the same spark test while 'flashing' 12V across the wire that goes to the coil. If it sparks then, it's the CDI not the coil.

However, my bet is still on a perished vacuum hose to the fuel pump. Delighted to be proved wrong though!
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jimc wrote:
Yes, that's the point of the test. Could be CDI or whatever - but the coil is the cheapest and most likely culprit if no spark.

If no spark, then disconnect the feed from CDI to the coil, and do the same spark test while 'flashing' 12V across the wire that goes to the coil. If it sparks then, it's the CDI not the coil.

However, my bet is still on a perished vacuum hose to the fuel pump. Delighted to be proved wrong though!
I checked for spark after it did it's thing by taking out the spark plug and reconnecting it to the wire and holding it against the head while running the starter and got no spark. Waited about a half hour after reassembly and it started right up- pulled the plug and tested for spark again ( to make sure I was seeing things correctly) and saw spark. I put everything back together and it started right up. I got brave and took it through the park for about 12 miles and had no problem at all. This has got to be electrical and most likely the coil. I think it sometimes overheats and shorts out and sometimes not. Does this sound plausible? I think I see the coil- it's a little blue thing that the spark plug wire goes to on one end and a black and a green wire attach to it on the other end. Is this it? If so, I'm in deep shit because I can't see how it's held on or how to get to it without removing the body. Anyone?

Bob
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HT coils tend to go open-circuit when hot rather than short-circuit (which would cause far greater and more terminal problems) - though a shorted coil on the HT side could kill it without breaking much else.

Try riding it until it fails again, and then try the spark-test as I said above, 'flashing' the coil coil itself. No point in replacing that if it's the CDI instead.
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It sounds so familiar to me And I already did: changed gas line, flter,pneumatic valve in the bottom of the fuel tank, vacuum gas pump (yes, even carbed Vespas have it- changing this pump helped a lot with smooth running and acceleratino with me), dismounted carburettor , put it to parts and inspected it (ok, I don´t have to mention with no result) And, yes, the sparkplug is new second time....
And now (yes, show must go on), I´m waiting for new ignition coil and if still wuld no go, pick up.
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And, I forgot to mention, CDI unit is also new (stupid me drilled out kignition key and destroy it Crying or Very sad emoticon )
And problem was the same with old CDI...
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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Resolved!!!!: Stalling when warm and not restarting
I finally got this resolved. I was able to ride it to my dealer last week on a nice cool fall day. The problem turned out to be the stator. New one installed and I'm back in business. I hope the snow stays away so I can get some more riding in. Thanks to everyone that chimed in. Hopefully someone else can benefit from what my dealer found if anyone else experiences the same symptoms.

Bob
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That would just be the pick-up coil in the stator? Glad you've got it going, sad it took so many changes to nail the culprit.
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Molto Verboso
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Jim you might have my post confused with the one above mine. This is the first part actually changed. The dealer showed me the old part. It's the entire part- I guess. The one under the water pump on the leader engine. The harness and the round thingy with the bound wires. They also replaced what I thought was the HT coil but the repair order says stator and coil.

Bob
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Yes, sorry, 'melded' the lot. It would probably have been either stator or coil - unusual to have two faults in the same part of the system - not impossible though, I've had a few.

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