Modern Vespa

Hello. Wondered if anyone knows if it's possible to modify a 250 gtv, and put the newest larger 300 engine in the 250?
Thanks in advance.....Bob Grenier, Visalia Ca.....

I don't think it's been done yet, but it should be do-able. It's not a slam dunk, by any means, but not impossible either.

The biggest issue with the GTV in particular will be the gauge cluster. The GTV and the 300 have different gauge cluster styles, and I don't know how many issues you're going to have because of the differences there. If this was a GTS to GTV or vice versa, it might be easier. But because you're going from a 300 (which uses a different gauge style than either the GTS or GTV) I really don't know what the interchangeability is going to be. You will almost certainly need the 300 wiring harness, but then, that almost certainly doesn't connect with the GTV gauge cluster.

Okay, maybe it is impossible. Or maybe just unknown.

I believe there are also some fuel pump / fuel line differences -- the 250 has a send and a return line, while the 300 has only a send line. There are probably some differences at the fuel pump as well.

sounds like an interesting project for
sure, keep us posted and good luck.

Wiring and efi? possible problems.

It will be an easy swap out.

Question is are there 2 differing ECU maps for the 2 motors?

I have no idea.....but I know where to find out.

R

8)

Long time Lurker, first time poster.

I've been looking at this 278cc kit for my GT200.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/KBR10002/Racing+cylinder+KUBLER+Racing+278cc.aspx

I'm sure somebody somewhere has done it, I just can't find any onfo on it.
I did consider an engine from a BV500, but issues with the wiring and CVT have to be worked out.

Wife says I should just get a 300, but she doesn't understand the cool factor of a GT300 or even GT500.

Cool. I didn't know that kit existed.

CheekyThomas posted on here about converting a 250 to a 300 (278 really) using factory parts. He put photos of the rebuild up at:

http://www.gtsownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1399

cheers

Wow, that is an epic thread! Very well done, I wonder if any changes were needed to the injection or ignition systems, to adapt to the 300 cylinder?

Any GTV rider that has ridden a 300 has certainly wondered when a 300GTV will be coming out. The 300 is quicker than the 250 as noted on many threads. Be interesting to know the sales stats of 250 vs 300. If the 300 is outselling the 250, Vespa would likel move to osoleting the 250.

To the thread topic: I think it'd be easier to take the gtv unique elements and mod a 300. This includes the fender-mount headlight and rewiring, legshield change, instrument cluster change, handlebar change including brake handle and light, blinker,kill switch assemblies, seat, wheels and paint. And don't forget rebadging. These all sounds very doable to me. You just have to find someone parting out a gtv. Sounds like a fun project that would take a few weeks if you had all the parts.

One alternative is to buy a 300 and a gtv, swap the parts necessary to make a gtv300 and turn the gtv into a gts and sell the gts. Don't know if the gtv wiring harness has all the necessary wires for the additional cluster features of the gts and if the ecu on the gtv even has all the necessary software to drive the cluster. Lots of details here and room for failure.

It would truly be a unique machine.
Miguel

That would be an interesting idea! I know there's a couple GTSs floating around out there that have had a GTV front fender and light added to them. It would basically just be changing out the whole front end, sans the legshield itself. You'd also have the option of the 3 Super colors to work with, if you didn't just do an entirely custom paint job. I bet a bright red GTV would be interesting.

with the success of the gtv body im sure vespa will milk it for what its worth...
GTV 300 in the works? oh yeah! why not? White GTV 300..drool... lets see, what would a current gtv owner consider to make the jump? the difference is actually less than 1 horse power as stated by scootering magazine, (.7 i think)yes faster in the stoplight arena..you get the extra little oomph at the start..but in the end the diff myt not matter.. so for me..it might be the collor, like orange, or yellow, or white...then more accesories..
good luck if you push through with this project....

The fuel gauge etc will all work fine on any model.. and the fuel system is the same, there is a change on newer 250/300 models to a single line system thats regulated inside the fuel tank, but assuming your system works you would just reuse the working system you have... it wasnt changed for flow rates, just to reduce cost.

To get a decent running 300 on the 250 ecu you need to alter its mapping to match the 300, but piaggio dont easily allow reprogramming of one ECU to another different vehicle, but it is possible as ive done it You can also swap the ECU to a 300 but that then needs tweaking as the 250s use a 4 wire lambda sensor, but the 300 only has provision for a 2 wire... so keeps tripping the warning light out.

I vote to make cheekythomas King. Or Emperor. Or something.

cheers

Hmm I'd rather wait to see if Piaggio puts out a GTV 300 that would be cool and I do not see why this has not been done already..


Jon

I'm not so sure what my reaction would be to see a Dragon Red or Diamond White GTV or LXV... I definitely like the red and white, but at the same time I kind of think that the vintage-styled bikes should have "vintage" colours, ie Portofino Green, Portofino Green or Portofino Green

That's not entirely true. The sub harness for the fuel level sender on the 300 differs from the GTS 250.

Go on, ask me how I know...

Not sure about GTS / GTV interchange in that respect, though.

I agree for the most part, WaspLover. But let me tell you, I'm seriously bummed they didn't resurrect Vintage Red for the GTV. I'd kill for that. In fact, I bought my GTV with the serious idea that if I ever need to repaint it in a decade or so, I'm going to do it Vintage Red, or at least as close as I can get it matched. The Siena Ivory is really growing on me, and really is a gorgeous color in its own right, so we'll see how it goes.

It seems like a hell of a lot of work for very little gain.

I think you've just summed up the essence of riding a scooter in only one sentence. Bravo!

Yes theres a difference in the wiring and multiplug, but you wouldnt need to change that, the 300 engine will still use the 250 wiring loom just fine.

If you want to change the 250 to a 300, just replace the engine, use the 250 injector, fuel pump, fuel gauge etc etc etc

Mmmm... I don't think so. There's a ground wire missing. There's a recall going on right now because the factory put the 250 harness on a large batch of 300 bikes, and they don't work.

Ive done it... it works.. theres a problem with using the 250 harness on a 300 fuel sender and vice versa as ones 2 pin and ones 3 pin, but you wouldnt be changing any electrics, only mechanicals so the wiring loom is irrelevant.

This would be cool - GTV300 Super = badass, though alot of work!

Same here. I would love to see a vintage red GTV.

Or even FASTEr, a dragon red GTV 300 Super

You don't quite understand, Wangta. The GTV, in any currently availible color, is so freaking stylish that it causes everyone around to slow down for a better look. Therefore, it doesn't need to be a faster red. Whilst everyone is distracted by its beauty, it can take off just fine even without being Dragon Red, or having a Super's engine.

That said, yes, a GTV 300 Super would still be really, really cool. 8) Even in Dragon Red. Actually, I'm suprized I haven't seen a repainted red GTV out there yet. Seen orange, pink, black...