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Hi Everyone,

My name is Adrian and i have been around here for a little while, this is my first post but i have been a fan of the forum for a while now.

About a month ago when I was removing the variator everything was fine until I went to put the variator nut back on, the belt was too low on the variator when I torqued up the nut and thus it came loose when the belt rose up in the variator after about 30 mins use.

The outer alloy half ramp (not sure of name) has heated up a fair bit and deposited some alloy on the crankshaft spline as well as wear about a 1cm portion of the spline so that the outer half of the variator and starter ring gear will not slide all the way in.

My question is this;

Can I have the spline on the crank repaired by a machine shop, similar to what can be done to an input shaft in a car's gearbox. I would prefer to do this than replace the crank with a new one.
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Either way you would have to pull the crank and I think they are only around $150. So it would be about the same price to replace the crank shaft, as to have it repaired.

Wayne B
⚠️ Last edited by Wayne B on UTC; edited 1 time
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OH, I though they were like $400.

Could you please point me in the direction of someone who sells them at circa $200. In the UK if possible please.
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I doubt very much that the crank splines have been damaged, they'll just need gentle cleaning up with a needle file, but I do expect the outer pulley will need replacing.

See this thread:
https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic53840
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Thanks for your reply Jim, thats great news.

I will pull her down tonight and take some photos and put them up here and hopefully get to the bottom of this. I was thinking of getting an aftermarket variator anyway so now is probably a good time......
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Most important thing is the screw threads on the end of the crankshaft. If they are OK, then it should be fine with just a cleanup of the splines.

I have had the same experience, and had to replace the crankshaft, which is a major operation. My new crank cost $AU750, I think, which would be about $US600.

Mike
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gts 125 and gts 250/300 cranks cost between £155-165 ish depending on exchange rate so i would imagine the 200 one to be priced likewise from SIP http://www.sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Results.aspx?t=gts%20crank&d=(sco,ape,lam,old,px,sma,max,atv,mot)&a=1&sort=0
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Thanks Guys,

I think the threads are fine because when I took the variator nut off last night it was still on there good and proper. I used locktite and it did not move. So I am hoping it will be OK with a clean up.

The positioning of the wear/ buildup of material in the splines is right in the centre of the belt. Is it true that the middle bit of the splines does not get used with some after market variators as the put a bushing there???

I will add pics later tonight, I am still at work at the moment.
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999Gomerz wrote:
Thanks Guys,

I think the threads are fine because when I took the variator nut off last night it was still on there good and proper. I used locktite and it did not move. So I am hoping it will be OK with a clean up.

The positioning of the wear/ buildup of material in the splines is right in the centre of the belt. Is it true that the middle bit of the splines does not get used with some after market variators as the put a bushing there???

I will add pics later tonight, I am still at work at the moment.
I don't think the middle portion of the splines get used at all, period. I can't recall the crank on the GT200 (Oz?) but every other crank I've seen had the splines milled down in the middle portion. Are you sure it's actually worn there, or just uniformly missing?
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jess wrote:
999Gomerz wrote:
Thanks Guys,

I think the threads are fine because when I took the variator nut off last night it was still on there good and proper. I used locktite and it did not move. So I am hoping it will be OK with a clean up.

The positioning of the wear/ buildup of material in the splines is right in the centre of the belt. Is it true that the middle bit of the splines does not get used with some after market variators as the put a bushing there???

I will add pics later tonight, I am still at work at the moment.
I don't think the middle portion of the splines get used at all, period. I can't recall the crank on the GT200 (Oz?) but every other crank I've seen had the splines milled down in the middle portion. Are you sure it's actually worn there, or just uniformly missing?
correct. Milled down in the middle as I recall as well.
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Here are some photos;

I will get a needle file onto the splines tomorrow.

The inner backing plate for the variator seems stuck on to the crank pretty good, is this normal?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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999Gomerz wrote:
The inner backing plate for the variator seems stuck on to the crank pretty good, is this normal?
yes. they can be tricky to remove. sometimes it will need to be wiggled loose, and rocked back and forth gently until it decides to move.
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genie wrote:
999Gomerz wrote:
The inner backing plate for the variator seems stuck on to the crank pretty good, is this normal?
yes. they can be tricky to remove. sometimes it will need to be wiggled loose, and rocked back and forth gently until it decides to move.
+1. Definitely.
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I am worried about the way your splines look. Maybe you can rescue them maybe not. The outer pulley half sits further in on the GT splines than it does on the others. In fact I think it sits where you have the most damage. Expert opinion is warranted here I think. Start off with the needle file and a new half-pulley plus an o-ring for the contraption that sits outside the GT half pulley.
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Mmmm that doesnt look the best thats for sure.... its worth trying to file them and see what you end up with, after all youve got nothing to loose...
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They look OK to me - I'd be cleaning them just enough to get the new pulley on as a tight fit with no slop. This could help the new pulley last a bit longer.
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jimc wrote:
They look OK to me - I'd be cleaning them just enough to get the new pulley on as a tight fit with no slop. This could help the new pulley last a bit longer.
Jim. The pulley arrangement on the GT 200 is very different to some of the others. I was a bit shocked at how different, when I changed Genie's belt. See how deep the GT half-pulley sits compared to every other Piaggio tranny?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

It has a lot of gubbins on top of it...

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

and that is where the splines are most damaged. Of course I will eat humble cupcake if I am wrong, it may indeed be remediable.
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I looked at the photos quite carefully - the top of the splines is very slightly rounded down - but all the 'side meat' is apparently still there, just with lumps of ali cold-welded to it. I had one on a B125 that was totally filled with ali, and the tops of the splines worn even more - that carried on just fine after carefull cleaning up.
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jimc wrote:
all the 'side meat' is apparently still there, just with lumps of ali cold-welded to it.
Yah. I noticed that. Hopefully I will be eating that p-i-e.
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Thanks for your help guys I will, get to to work on it with a needle file.

I will replace the variator whilst I am in there, is there one that I should think of first given the position on my "spline wear"? i am not trying to start a debate which variator is better just asking if they change the position of the outer pulley on the splin.

Thanks for all of your help.
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They shouldn't. In your place I wouldn't change the variator itself, but I would consider using Dr Pulley sliders instead of OEM rollers. Just for fun...
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Thanks Jim, but the variator is broken too and will need to be replaced anyway.

What is the reason I shouldn't use an aftermarket one?
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The reason is because they chew rollers and your in there replacing them more often. The performance benefits while desirable at first quickly become annoying because the engine is ringing its neck off when all you want to do is cruise. Hopefully you will realise this sooner than later, well before you strip the threads on the crankshaft for having the variator nut off and on that many times trying to get the weights right in the performance variator.
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999Gomerz wrote:
Thanks Jim, but the variator is broken too and will need to be replaced anyway.

What is the reason I shouldn't use an aftermarket one?
Aftermarket variators are for people who like to tinker. You get better acceleration, but worse mileage and more wear on your poor screaming engine.

In addition they do not last as long themselves, and generally chew rollers like crazy.

If you want to get off the line somewhat faster, and are willing to spend many extra hours and dollars maintaining your transmission, be my guest. Lots of people live for that shit. If not, stay stock.

P.

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