Modern Vespa

On the way home from my Yosemite / Mono Lake Loop trip, the predictable happened, again: Blown exhaust gasket. I didn't hear it until I got off the freeway, as I had earplugs in and the wind noise makes it pretty much nigh-on impossible to notice the exhaust.

I can look the other way when the bike is modified, or the exhaust has been removed and reinstalled under questionable circumstances. But this is a bone-stock 300 Super, unmodified, unmolested, and virtually pristine. It's got less than 4,000 miles on it, and the exhaust has never been removed.

The exhaust system fitted to the GTS is pretty much the worst exhaust fitted to any two-wheel vehicle on the market today. Just abysmally awful. One long ride in hot weather and Bam! it sounds like a Harley.

Piaggio: Your exhaust design sucks. A lot. I am quickly coming to the end of my rope, having repeatedly suffered the same fate, over and over again.

That sucks man! Maybe they'll give you a bulk rate on graphite bushings. heheh..

Are the 300 collars the 'new' style ones that are only half graphited?

Note to self, get a new spare for the Fuoco, just used the last one.

The GP800 has two of these mothers - but they never have to be disturbed. 21,000 miles so far - maybe I'd better get a couple for that as well...

I'd like to see what would happen if you ever rode it in hot weather.

Mine have always gone when riding WOT - but sometimes at 0C - I don't think the ambient temperature has much to do with it, in fact the amount of 'sliding' the pipes have to do (and the wear) is actually more in cold weather. The exhaust will be the same temperature whether in Oslo or Death Valley...

But 4,000 miles is truly shite. I'd be claiming a new one under warranty.

Mine have always blown on hot days, riding long and hard. Dunno. Yeah, shite is right. I don't know if it's worth the hassle of having it replaced under warranty, as it'll just blow again. And if past experience is any indication, the second one will blow in only a matter of days, since so many dealers are apparently unable to do this particular install correctly.

funny you should mention this. i was at doug's the other day, along with WM and Mr. Wonder, changing the stock exhaust on her 300 for an LV. she's got around the same mileage on her scooter, and the gasket was fried to a fragment.

I hope mine doesn't blow.
I have a stock GTS 300 Super muffler on my GTS 250.

BTW...Sucks that yours blew Jess,
Hope everything gets fixed on warranty.

Bogus. You'd think this wasn't a hard problem to solve - one piece system for instance.

But then you stress the exhaust studs.

Can't win.

Just get the part under warranty and install yourself - that's what I do for warranty stuff that is reasonably done at home - the dealers love it as they can claim for the time as well. And then I know it's done to *my* specs (which may or may not be better than the dealers, but at least they're *mine*).

I agree that it's a poor design although I have driven over 3700 miles with many of those miles during very hot Georgia weather without a problem. I had to replace the gasket yesterday when I changed the rear tire. I wonder how many failures are due to improper installation by owners, dealer mechanics and Piaggio factory workers. The Piaggio technical bulletin is very specific about gasket placement, clamp location relative to the slots and torque specification. I carefully followed the bulletin so I hope it holds.

I checked it for leaks after installation and to my disappointment it was slightly leaking. There was no noticeably increase in sound but I could feel a leak. I went for a ride and checked it when I returned and the leak was gone. Checked it again today to see how it was working with a cold engine. It seemed fine. It was like the graphite gasket sealed after being exposed to the extreme temperatures of the exhaust. This is my first experience with this so I'm not sure if this is normal.

Owners, dealer mechanics, and Piaggio factory workers... that pretty much covers everyone. There are only two explanations: (a) all of the listed parties are unable to install an exhaust gasket correctly, of (b) the design is defective.

I've made up my mind as to which it is.

Jess, could it be a backfire in the exhaust the outlet hole is very small and riding WOT for a long time can build up unspent fuel.

Personally I think they should just lose the graphite altogether. Kawasakis have just the similar metal mesh, those don't fail early as far as I have been informed.

I've gone through 2 gaskets and 1 broken stud in 11,000 otherwise trouble-free miles.

The exhaust design on the GTS truly sucks big-time. It is the Achilles heel of an otherwise extraordinary design.

Sorry even our Mighty Leader had to suffer.

P.

my harley uses a Mesh Metal product also and it has not blown.

....but I got sick of screwing with the pipe and did this, which I've shown before. The place I got it done still has the jig. Have well over 30,000 miles on the muffler and header pipe since it was welded. Just a thought.

Randy, it looks like you have the solution to the problem. I'm hoping that I'll continue to have luck with my LV pipe that doesn't use the gasket/collar.

Oh, that sounds just terrible. You should buy a 250ie GTS Jess. I haven't had any problems with it as long as I've been riding it, I have quite a few miles on it too.

How many does it take to do a recall? Take it in and have the dealer do it and maybe they will get the hint.

How were you able to put your sketched scooters under a line? I would like to do something along those lines.

Look for editing your 'signature' in your profile.

Please don't use huge pictures.

I hate it when that happens (blown exhaust gasket) I will sometimes check the clamp before I take a long ride and tighten it down. I had this happen on my GTS 250 before and noticed the clamp was loose.. Now I check it at every 3000....


Jon

I fried the whole Prima header pipe on my GTS250 at Amerivespa.

A couple of hour long high speed runs in 100 degree heat and the pipe blued and spider-web cracked all around the lambda (sp) sensor mount hole.

I'm back on the stock pipe, with original bushing that's been in and out probably five times.

Heat is the killer on these injected engines it seems.

I'm wondering why you have such a bad experience with them (and your exhaust, in general). Not everybody does, and I even want to venture to say that, by looking at posts here, I see very few problems being reported on, based on the number of scooters in operation.

Could it be that your WOT style of riding has something to do with it? Do you warm it up reasonably before you give it WOT?

The Cat exhausts get very hot indeed. The downpipes get very hot. They will expand - only a tad - but enough to scrape away a graphite collar if it isn't 'looked after'.

They are all part of the vibrating unsprung weight - so double jeopardy. A duff design say I, and the new design means Piaggio has come part-way to agreeing...

What new design?

Only half the mesh is graphited. Posts passim.

I've owned three different GTS 250s. I've blown the exhaust in each of them, sometimes multiple times. The GTS 250 is very susceptible to this problem, and apparently the 300 is as well.

I've seen a lot of blown exhaust gaskets, both reported here and in person. I believe I've been very up front about that, yes. This time, it broke on a long ride home from the Eastern Sierras. Early morning was easy going, slow even. By the time I came out of the mountains, I was ready to be home and jumped on the freeway. In my experience, that's generally when it will go. Especially on a hot day.

Bike was on and off all day, some easy going and some not. By the time the exhaust gasket blew, I'd venture to say it was well beyond the warm-up phase.

When I get a chance I buy a new gasket, I'll check with the millwrights at the plant and see if they have a high temp material that can be made into a gastket that will work.

The GTS's run hotter than the GT's, and I think it's related to Piaggio's attempts to meet ever more stringent EPA and European emissions standards.

I think while the ambient temperature may play a small part, the larger cause is likely to be the length of time being run, combined with the WOT riding. Extreme temps, over an extended duration may be the cause of the failure, imho. If that's the case, it is indeed a design flaw.

I've never had one fail on my GT200. Has anyone else experienced a failure on the 200, unrelated to a pipe change?

[quote="Porsche_Joe"]I agree that it's a poor design although I have driven over 3700 miles with many of those miles during very hot Georgia weather without a problem. I had to replace the gasket yesterday when I changed the rear tire. I wonder how many failures are due to improper installation by owners, dealer mechanics and Piaggio factory workers. The Piaggio technical bulletin is very specific about gasket placement, clamp location relative to the slots and torque specification. I carefully followed the bulletin so I hope it holds.

How does one get that technical bulletin or information? Didn't find it in the reference section.

I'm not sure what makes the difference, but I've got 15k miles on the stock bushing on my 250, and have never had a problem. The exhaust has come off many times. Tire changes, as well as exhaust removal for shock mounting, and recently because I had to tap one of the mount holes on the swingarm because I lost one of the bolts. I'd say it's been on and off at least seven times, and I definitely ride wot!

Maybe it's time to get a proper touring bike for those long rides

Something like this?

(sorry to read about this... it seemed like you'd had a great weekend up until then)

I had one fail at about 4000 miles but changed to the LV and no issues since. I hope they acknowledge this issue and change to a working design.

I've used an LV extensively on the Cannonball bike. Once I figured out how not to break the header pipe, it's been okay.

Of course, I've burned out all the wadding of two different LVs, and broken the baffle on one of them. They may change the design, but I seriously doubt they will ever acknowledge it. From the corporate point of view, it makes no sense to acknowledge such things, because it just opens you up to claims and lawsuits.

I wonder if you could use something like Nomex instead of graphite?

You have no idea how much I want a fuckin' TMax.

You have a good idea how little I need another bike.

Meh. I might as well get a Guzzi or something equally ridiculous. No biggie. I was almost home. I'm bummed, but not so much on the scale of spoiling my day, more on the scale of feeling let-down by the brand and wanting to give up the fight.