Modern Vespa

Hi
I have a 2 year old MP3 250, I have had it from new.

Tuesday on the way to work I lost all power, and on pulling to the side of the road, I could see "candy floss" around the the drive belt casing, so i thought the drive belt had snapped again, it did it the frist time about three months ago. It was taken to my Piaggio dealer, who has done all the work on the bike, and he's done loads but that another story.

He phoned me later to say having removed the casing, the belt hadn't snapped but all inside had melted, he claims he had never seen this before, and quoted me £300 + tax for parts. I said that if he had never seen anything like this before, surely he should contact Piaggio to find an answer, he seemed reluctant to do so, but I insisted and left it with him. Still waiting, but have any of you guys come across this, or throw some light onto what may have caused it

Never heard of that with a three-month old belt. Are you sure they replaced it with a Piaggio part last time, and even with the correct size belt? Something has gone seriously awry. Oh, and if the dealer says he's done loads of snapped belts on MP3s, that raises alarm bells about what belts he is fitting. It's very rare if the belts are changed at the suggested intervals.

I'm assuming it is just out of warranty.

kinda makes me wonder if he did in fact change the belt 3 months ago?
did you actually see the old one?
Also he could have accidently installed in wrong when he did it and thats why he is reluctant to contact piaggio.

[kinda makes me wonder if he did in fact change the belt 3 months ago?
did you actually see the old one?]
I had the same thought. I recently had the front brake pads, OEM rollers and belt replaced and I requested for these old parts returned to me. I also purchased the brake pads, Dr. Pulley Sliders & belt on-line myself to make sure they install the exact parts I want. I like to know that I am getting the correct parts replaced since once installed, they will be hidden and out-of-sight. If I could order certain parts myself, I do it. Plus, doing it myself might even save me some $ since dealers usually mark up their prices.

you can always order your own parts.
Part prices should not change whether the dealer install them or sells them to you over the counter.

If I have an installation done at my local dealer I buy the parts from them. I don't see any savings on line for genuine Piaggio parts and prefer to give them the profit. Service and parts are all that is holding many dealers afloat right now. If installing my self I will buy on line for the convenience of not going 90 miles to the dealer to pick up. If as in the case of tires the dealer does not stock what I want, then I will buy on line.

That said, they do stock Piaggio parts and I do ask to see the old parts.

If I don't trust a dealer beyond charging me for new and reinstalling the old, then having them show or give me old parts proves nothing because they could be from another bike.

[If I don't trust a dealer beyond charging me for new and reinstalling the old, then having them show or give me old parts proves nothing because they could be from another bike]
I don't want to open a debate about honesty but I can assure you not all dealers work on an 'honest' system. I have proofs but I rather keep them to myself. I guess at the end of the day, we all do what we feel it's best for us so for me, I feel more comfortable supplying my own parts. So later, if I don't get those same parts back, someone will have a lot of explaining to do. However, I do agree with you that dealers are struggling to survive right now, that was part of my reason for asking them replace my rollers and belt when I could have done them myself. As always, I welcome your feedback cause whether they are positive or negative, I appreciate them all the same.

The dealer has been a piaggio dealer for years, he may be a grumpy old sod, and charges the earth but he does know about piaggios.
The old belt did snapped, and he only uses Piaggio parts, and checks the relavant setting etc. with Piaggio, he just said he's never seen melting of parts inside the casing. Hopefully Piaggio can come up with an answer, I will keep you all up to date

Thnaks

thanks for the latest kopfjagerstu

As far as getting parts on line vs your dealer why not just call the dealer and order from them and have them shipped to you. that way you are supporting your dealer and still installing your own parts. Your just saving on the labor costs.

Problem with supplying your own part is you get no warranty on the labor if you end up getting a defective replacement part. Lets say you buy a part at dealer A and have dealer B install that part, then the part turns out to be defective and fails 100 miles later. Dealer B has no obligation to replace the part for free, as you didn't buy the part from him and dealer A only has the obligation to give you a replacement part, because he didn't install the part. So the labor to replace the defective part is all on you.

Just something to think about.

Wayne B

Wayne you missed that one he did not say anything about buying from a different dealer.

[you can always order your own parts.
Part prices should not change whether the dealer install them or sells them to you over the counter]
Below is the link I found on-line which advertises the exact same Michelin rear tire the dealer installed for me yesterday. They charged me $105.26 for the tire alone excluding the tire disposal fee, while DK Scooters is selling it for $60.99 + $7.99 shipping fee = $68.98. I just want to post this to prove my point that not all dealers will give you the same price. In this case, the difference was not that significant since the item was not that pricey to begin with. But if the item had costed $500, who knows how much my dealer would have charged me . . . I say at least $50 mark up.
http://www.dkscooters.com/michelin-140-70-14-m-c-68s-gold-standard-scooter-rear-tires.html

we just discussed tires are not over the counter piaggio parts. Tires can and will vary greatly most of the time dealers are hard press thru there suppliers to offer the same price as what you might find elsewhere.
Your original concern over the belt and rollers installed because it could not be see don't compare to tires. most of the time you can get tires and have them installed by some of the smaller scooter repair shops heck even some car tire places will change them if you bring in the just the rim and new tire.

The point that has been made is always a given here - I expect (and have always so far been given this courtesy) to be given back *all* replaced parts that aren't liquid or obvious from the outside like tyres and brake pads. Unless under warranty and Piaggio might want them back - but if not 6 months later I'll get them back if I have expressed an interest.

Then you are saying he "Ordered On Line" from the dealer that installed the parts. I find that hard to believe.


Quote:
"I also purchased the brake pads, Dr. Pulley Sliders & belt on-line myself to make sure they install the exact parts I want. "

Wayne B

Wayne I appologize to you. I read that line wrong and screwed it up in my head the first time.

After rereading the quote I would have to agree with wayne on warrenty of parts bought from somewhere else and installed by a diferent dealer. If I were the dealer installing Factory parts and aftermarket part that someone brought in, that I could get for them also,Well they would get the job done and correctly but I wouldn't cut them a break on labor what so ever.

I have a scooter repair shop, and I compare buying your parts online and then expecting me to install them to bringing your own ham and eggs to Dennys. I will do it, but my labor rate for mooches who buy their own parts is higher.

Another time waster is the guy who bought a part online and sends me an email telling me he could install it himself, but he wants to know how much I charge.

I wish him all the best and move on.

OTOH, I just had a customer who spent a lot of money with me sorting out a Chinese scooter. After he got it home, his headlight burned out. I went to his house and picked up his scooter, and left him one of mine so he could get around while I took his back to my shop and replaced the bulb after troubleshooting the charging system and making sure that was the entirety of the problem. He paid nothing for this.

The key to getting good service is being the customer the shop wants. If someone buys his parts from me and doesn't tell me what the internet says to do when I tell him what his scooter needs, I'll cut him some slack if I see he needs brake pads while I'm replacing a tire, since I've got the caliper off anyway. The guy who brings in his own tires and tries to beat me up over my labor rate can bring in his own brake pads and rotor and muffler when the pads grind down to nothing and the muffler falls off because the bolts backed out and nobody took the time to give the scooter a once over when it was in the shop getting tires put on (true story). Hopefully he ordered the right pads.

I fully applaud the above post. A symbiotic relationship - hopefully a personal friendship one too.

And poo-bah to those who try to cheat dealers out of their rightful labour charges. Good dealers do not gouge. Good dealers will be those who a few years down the line will be experienced and can sort out your ancient scoot... ...and enjoy the puzzle and the beers you offer!

Beware ! If you have a dealer do all your maintenance, you're susceptible to getting had. Another reason I do all my own maintenance/repairs. What does a dealer charge for labor now, $80 and hour ? That cost to you is whether they have done your job before or not. Where's the economy in riding a scooter this way ? You are a captive audience.

I do my out-of-warranty stuff - but most folk wouldn't want to attempt it, they'd rather have a *trusted* dealer to do it. What is important is that *trust* thing. Takes a lifetime to gain, a moment to lose. So those dealers who carry some *trust* deserve it. If you can't fettle your bike yourself (and there's no reason why most folk should be expected to), find one of those above, you'll not be disappointed with your investment after a few years.

Dealers who over-charge go out of business...

Dealers who play fair right down the line keep their customers - and get referrals.

rates are just under $100 on most brands of m/cs and scoots. some car dealers are over that

I checked the price on the Metzler price I bought from my dealer after I got home and read a thread. I could have bought the tire almost $50 cheaper online. They charged installation separately.

Earlier I had bought my belt online and had it replaced by the dealer (early), taking the old one to carry as my spare. That was done at a reasonable price. I think I would rather buy the parts elsewhere.

Something is a little off. I check prices on the internet to get an idea of the price range I should expect from my dealer. The items typically have a small markup over the internet prices, but having owned a small business myself, I understand the overhead my dealer has to pay to keep in business. Unless the quoted price is completely out of line, I won't question what the dealer is charging. I need him to be in business and he needs me as a satisfied customer.

When I was inquiring about tires, I asked my dealer about a particular brand. He recommended the Metzler to me because he was more familiar about that brand of tire and the cost of the Metzler was less. I don't recall the price I paid on the Metzler, but I think it was in the $75 to 80 dollar range. A $50 dollar difference would mean a significant price for the tire. If you have a good dealer, they won't mind you asking about a price quote that seems out of line with other similar products. Sometimes it can be an honest mistake (like not realizing they included installation in the price of the tire and charged you again for it). When I had my tire replaced along with other maintenance, I noticed they forgot to add in the price of the tire. Similar mistake, but I pointed it out because it was the right thing to do.

Might be worth asking your dealer about the price of the tire. If there was an error, he may make it up in the future by not charging you for a tire change.

+100 Max, I have used that same comparison many times and believe it fully. Most dealers and shops have access to all the same products and a GOOD store will NOT take advantage of their customer base. The ones that do aren't in business long. That being said stores have to make a profit or they won't be in business long therefore they probably won't quite make the same deal that the online outlets can but there is a LOT to be said for seeing a "face" (if you will) even in these days of computers.

I fully agree with symbiotic relationship and I support my shop. They have yet to over charge me on parts (fair markup) and labor is fair. Hope it doesn't change as I believe they have changed ownership. Will know soon enough.

Anyway, I usually order my tires online as removing the rear wheel is something I can do. The only part I cannot is actually mount and balance it. I take the wheel into the shop and have them do it. Is this bad form?

no . you are paying them to just mount and balance a tire at x-rate. now if you bought the tire from the shop they might mount and balance for free if you just bring the wheel. might ask them next time. You have to also take into consideration you bringing in new tire from somewhere else and another customer buys his there who's might get done first and if you have or need service later how quick will they work you in?

Hey Max - I fully support you 100% and wish there were more dedicated mechanics out there like yourself. I personally prefer buying my own parts on-line for personal reasons but I also accept whatever labor fees my local dealer charges me without giving them any hassle. I am sure not all folks who buy their own parts are cheap individuals [just smart shoppers]. Same goes with mechanics, I am sure some will pay attention to details and go beyond the call of duty like yourself while others just do the job they are paid to do. Where is your shop by the way? If I am ever in the neighborhood, I like to stop by and say 'hi'.

Here's the reality on tire prices in the USA. Dealers have to get their tires from a wholesaler which has it's own markup to charge, whereas a discounter on the internet buy their tires in greater volume so they are charged less per tire from the factory. Yes, the factory has less overhead to pay for per tire than the scooter dealer. Some MC dealers won't even mount a tire for you if you haven't bought the tire from them. Or they charge you more to mount the tire than they do a customer who buys the tire from them.

I buy my tires on the internet and mount them myself. I don't bother to balance them because it's really not necessary if you put the dot on the tire at the valve stem. I've been doing this for years and have no issues of vibration from my mounted tires. I do leave the old weights on the rim that were there from the previous tire balance.

I take my tires to the local motorcycle shop to have them mounted. They charge me $25 a tire.

I was going to go to Bobs BMW in Md to have them mount and spin balance my tires and they won't mount tires not bought from them. I even have a friend that works in the service dept and they still wouldn't make an exception. They would balance them though if I brought in mounted wheels/tires.

Wayne B