Modern Vespa

OK ..i need

1) To learn how to weld

2) A beginners welding setup ( i assume a wirefed machine ) that's not too expensive, but not some chinese garbage that's going to break on the 3rd use. If you said "A used Weldmaster6000!" ..i'd try to find that used on craigslist, etc.

3) to know what other crap i need to buy. Obvious answers : a self-tinting helmet, gloves, angle grinder, etc.

4) To know what gauge steel the standard vespa frame is, so that i can buy a wire-fed welder that's not too big for the job.


Anyone with experience, please chime in. I've got a frame with some holes that need filled, and possibly an entire new floorboard to be put in depending on how ambitious i am and how severe the damage is.

After about a year of reading and reading about welding, and which kind of welder i'd want, I got cold feet and let it idle for about 6 months. Then, just a couple weeks ago, a welder came up on Craigslist that was priced so well I couldn't ignore it.

I picked up a Lincoln Weld-Pak 100hd. It can do up to 1/4" thick steel and can be converted to MIG as well. The flux-cored wirefeed is serving me just fine so far. I made up a welding table and some mobile bases for my woodworking tools.

It was stupid easy to learn to use. Patience and a good view are really only things I've had to worry about. The voltage and feed speeds take a wee bit of time to get used to, but not too bad. My first ever weld was pretty decent. I've had worse welds since, lol. There are a couple of great YouTube videos instructing the basics of welding.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzBGZaS1apw

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMdQT-eswYY

These two got me a feel for what to expect and listen for. Then just actually gluing steel together helped to fill in the blanks. Playing with scrap is a great way to learn stuff

As for the other equipment you'll need...

Leathers - gloves and apron. I've heard some pros do without the gloves but as a newb, I'm happy to keep my fleshy bits away from scalding stuff.

Clothing - wear natural fibers, NOT synthetic plastic stuff like nylon or polyester. All-cotton long-sleeve shirt and blue jeans.

Shoes/Boots - leather - not plastic. Again, if a glob of slag lands on yer foot, you would prefer to have natural fibers rather than napalm

An auto-darkening helmet is NICE but not absolutely needed. You can get away with the little puppet mask that comes with the cheaper ones, but I sure like having both hands free. The regular flip-top masks that are always darkened work fine, if a bit cumbersome. If you don't mind harbor freight, I think they still have an auto-darkening one for $49 - with a 20% coupon, that brings you down to just over $40 with tax - nice deal and it works quite well.

Other equipment kinda depends on what you're gonna be doing. An angle grinder is very helpful in most applications. I may pick up a 2nd, because I really like having a wire brush on mine, but also need the grinding wheel quite a bit. Not having to change over is convenient

A set of MIG pliers is handy to have for removing the tips and clipping extra wire. If you ever go full MIG, these pliers also come in handy for keeping the tip clean, too.

Clamps and workholding as needed. THose magnetic triangles are hamn dandy to keep around, though sometimes you can just hold the items by hand. Special vise grips for getting up and around obstructions is also handy. Some guys use C-clamps with special copper threads because the spatter doesn't stick to copper too well. So far, I've gotten by with just vise grips and magnets.

A welding table is nice to have if you're building stuff that's not attached to something big and bulky. It's also a great first project. I built mine out of some 1 1/2" angle iron and a 3/8" thick plate for the top. It's also helpful for keeping all my welding stuff organized and portable.

I dunno what gauge the Vespa frames run, but even a small 100a welder like mine (which runs of 120v) shouldn't have much problem with that. Real thin stuff (like below 18ga) may need MIG, though.

HTH

I'm far from an expert welder but I do know a thing or two.

You've got MIG, TIG, and Gas welding.

MIG I'd skip personally. I find it sloppy for precision work.
TIG is really nice but pricey.

I learned on a gas setup. That's oxygen and acetylene. You only need a small setup. I'd recommend this- https://www.tinmantech.com/html/kits_4130.php#1

It's made for aircraft welding but it's perfect for the thin sheet steel on Vespas. The deluxe kit at the above site has just about everything you need except for the oxygen and acetylene tanks which you get from your local welding shop.

-Todd

1) try your local voc ed. you may have to convince them you are older or younger than you really are.

2) there should be a used industrial equipment store near an industrial area...say Detroit. I remember Baltimore had a ton of them.

3) Go to a welding shop, get a really good mask. Welding will f@@@ your eyes in a heartbeat.

4) Mic it.

I recently read an article somewhere about "hole welding" thin sheet metal to prevent deforming. Basically you tack once or twice, then punch quarter inch holes through both layers of metal. Then weld in the holes. Once that is done you can seam weld without deforming the part. Supposed to be better than a lot of tacks. Don't take my word for it, I don't really know anything about it.

If you're going to go down the route of a self tinting helmet, don't go for a cheap one. The tint doesn't change fast enough to protect your eyes, and you can do yourself some real damage when you get flashed.

Also, with the self darkening, don't block the sensors!!

Read up on helmet/mask reviews on some of the welding forums. Its a really important piece of kit.

-Andrea

If you go with an electric welder, check the source of power you want to use. Is it 110 or 220? I had a really wimpy wire feed welder (since stolen) and I could never turn it up to full power without throwing a breaker.



You know whose advice I would trust on welding Vespas?

radare- https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic42613

That dude is an awesome welder.

The glass blowing school my wife recently attended at the local nonprofit arts org does weekend intro to welding workshops. You may have something similar in your area.

Leave the welding to a pro. Seriously, it takes years of practice and to pay a pro doesn't cost much at all.

Once you have found a good welder that you trust then you can keep going back safe that the jobs will be done well.

From


To


for around $50. Worth paying someone to do well

Charlie

hey eric, your on the right track

the lincoln machine is fine and usally on clist

don't worry about doing a great job cause you won't

takes time, so get used to mistakes

great winter hobbie

and get the old school welders mask where you shack it down with your head and get a stick mask as well

its basically a mask on a stick

Winter? What is that?

So.... yeah, i know i could pay someone to do this. I just may.

But, at the same time ...i know when i should learn how to do something to. Afterall, i could have paid someone to rebuild all my engines, restore all the bikes i've done, etc.

I'm more of the sort of person who tries to learn how to do stuff himself.

If i had the ability to chrome in my garage, i probably would have started THAT too.

I'm not going to go learning how to weld up holes by starting on a GS frame...don't worry.

I know what you mean. I have a racing car that I compete with in a classic touring car series. I do most of the mechanical work myself but I leave the engine building and mapping to an expert. There's nothing wrong with leaving some jobs to the experts.

Charlie

BTW - these episodes are amazing and i plan on watching all of this guy's instructional videos.

Much respect to you bud. Good luck man, I hope you end up doing the work yourself.

I really enjoyed learning a bunch of new skills rebuilding my P. Things i had never done before. Everything mechanical on that bike was rebuilt. I also stripped the frame, cut some rust out, welded in patches, welded holes shut, body work, filler, paint...etc. All under the watchful eye of my body shop owning friend.

I'll ask him what he thinks a quality home set up should look like.

A friend of mine that is helping me weld my project seems to think that the frames were gas welded. Gas weld is cooler, but you can blow yourself up if you are not careful. He also thinks the metal is about 16 gauge.

16 is about right but the gas weld is not

i am positive these frames were spot welded from the get go

Yees, definitely spot welded. And that is how you take them apart, you drill through each spot and the parts fall apart.