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Molto Verboso
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Now that the 300 Super has been around for over a year (worldwide), when will Piaggio be introducing a newer Vespa...maybe 400 or 500cc's so I can upgrade from my 250? If I'm going to shell out the money, I want a lot more power...not 29cc's more....how does one find out what is going on with those people in Italy?
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I think you may have to wait a while before you see a bigger engine in a Vespa!
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UTC quote
Dont hold your breath
In Italy they are putting the 300 into several Piaggio group machines.

I take that as a sign they are sticking with that engine for a while.

Having said that the Beverley is now available with a 493cc engine but I dont think that would fit in the Vespa frame, cause the X8 400 engine would have been a really nice option in the GTS.

There has been comment that the GTS handling parameters could become compromised with a lot more power. You and I may like that idea but corporate Piaggio thinking may not like the prospect of scoots heading into the brush instead of going around corners with the mono side suspension being overwhelmed.

My take anyway. But "wouldnt it be luverly" to have that 400 donk!!!!
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UTC quote
given how scooters and MC's are languishing on the vine (at least in US economy right now), I imagine it could be a while. That said, if they could put the BV500 engine in a Vespa frame, that would be sweet.
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UTC quote
More than likely the next Vespa will be a double,
They usually are, The GT200 is an exception,
But then the GT200 seems to be off the showroom floors lately.

Although I'd love to see a Vespa Kompressor.
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UTC quote
Re: Now That the Super 300 Has Been Around, What's Next???
Munibonds wrote:
Now that the 300 Super has been around for over a year (worldwide), when will Piaggio be introducing a newer Vespa...maybe 400 or 500cc's so I can upgrade from my 250? If I'm going to shell out the money, I want a lot more power...not 29cc's more....how does one find out what is going on with those people in Italy?
You gotta figure there were 2 model years between the release of the 200 and the 250 (04-06) then four model years between the 250 and the 300 (06-10). Sounds like a little patience might go a long way.
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Big Foot wrote:
More than likely the next Vespa will be a double,
They usually are, The GT200 is an exception,
But then the GT200 seems to be off the showroom floors lately.

Although I'd love to see a Vespa Kompressor.
What do you mean by double? 2-seater? Twin cylinder?
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UTC quote
In order to go any bigger than the current 278cc engine in a Vespa they will need to upgrade to at least 14 inch wheels. 12 inch wheels just won't cut it at the higher speeds a bigger motor will generate. Too much of a liability to up the motor but not the wheel size.


I think if they go bigger they will build a much larger chassis and make it a Vespa Tourer.
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Errrrr?
Will it still have a Vespa look?

Piaggio evidently agonised in the design department over the GT, to still maintain "the look".

How would wheel sizes like that not compromise "the look" and take it to the Bev/Liberty /Honda look alikes?
⚠️ Last edited by old mod on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
drewteague wrote:
Big Foot wrote:
More than likely the next Vespa will be a double,
They usually are, The GT200 is an exception,
But then the GT200 seems to be off the showroom floors lately.

Although I'd love to see a Vespa Kompressor.
What do you mean by double? 2-seater? Twin cylinder?
I had a dream last night about twin headlights on a Vespa,
That would be very sexy, Especially if the bodywork in the headset had a nice curve to it.

V-Twin engine not sure if Vespa would want to go that route.

The wheel size would have to be increased if not made wider too,
Bigger might mean a more maxi look for the Vespa.
Might be better to leave it as it is and let the Beverly be the bigger one instead.

Although I would love to see a shaft drive on a Vespa before the final exit.
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UTC quote
I think the 300 engine will be it for a while, Piaggio will release a GTV 300 next year and there are also going to be a couple of new versions of the 300 Super.
Something along the lines of a touring version I would expect, but essentially a 300 Super.
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UTC quote
peabody99 wrote:
given how scooters and MC's are languishing on the vine (at least in US economy right now), I imagine it could be a while. That said, if they could put the BV500 engine in a Vespa frame, that would be sweet.
I don't think the US market will be what's driving the direction of Piaggio's future developments, although I agree with the other stuff you've said.

I really doubt Vespas will ever go over 300 (maybe they'll make an actual 300 someday) but I'll be desperate for a shot if they do!
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I'm not sure they'll avoid makig a 400 or 500. But my question would be if it'd be well received. Hell, that'd basically be the end of vespa in the sense of producing small, economical vehicles. They already aren't economical.
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UTC quote
Re: Now That the Super 300 Has Been Around, What's Next???
Munibonds wrote:
I want a lot more power...not 29cc's more....how does one find out what is going on with those people in Italy?
To just make it clear the 250 is a 244cc and the 300 is a 278cc making it 34cc more not 29cc.

Even If they made a true 400cc it would most likely not go 110MPH. It would be restricted to about 90MPH.
⚠️ Last edited by Scooterhenry on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
Re: Now That the Super 300 Has Been Around, What's Next???
Scooterhenry wrote:
Munibonds wrote:
I want a lot more power...not 29cc's more....how does one find out what is going on with those people in Italy?
To just make it clear the 250 is a 244cc and the 300 is a 278cc making it 34cc more not 29cc.
Which is still less than a shot glass.

That said, the 300 has noticeably more low-end grunt than the 250.
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UTC quote
Re: Errrrr?
old mod wrote:
Will it still have a Vespa look?
Possible... although it might look like this:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

edit: changed photo to another one
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Could the design become a flat twin ala BMW? Ah heck, there's probably way too many things which would make such a design impossible for the current Vespa shape.

Harv
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UTC quote
I could handle that
Wasplover.

Reaal cookie points when you roll into the Road House and look down on the Hardleys. Oh, sorry I do already. Only joking.
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Too bad this is photoshopped.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
woodenhead wrote:
Too bad this is photoshopped.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Errrr... guilty as charged.
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UTC quote
For Piaggio to produce anything other than a retro styled scooter which takes a cue from a model in the past would be a huge departure.

They tried it with the Cosa, and at the time it was a flop. Vespa has become known by their iconic link with the past, and to some degree it both informs their future designs, and constrains them at the same time.

On the other hand, they can push the envelope of design with Piaggio, Aprilia, and Gilera without the expectation of what a "Vespa" should look like.

I don't see this as a negative, sometimes constraint makes for great innovation. I think it's interesting to see what Piaggio does with the Vespa brand from here, because as some have already noted, Vespa's legacy is small, user friendly, and economical. Vespa doesn't need to produce a Burgman, someone's already done that.
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UTC quote
500....

If they can do it.....

R

8)
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UTC quote
Len Smith wrote:
They tried it with the Cosa, and at the time it was a flop.
The Cosa is still a flop today.



/ducks
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jess wrote:
Len Smith wrote:
They tried it with the Cosa, and at the time it was a flop.
The Cosa is still a flop today.



Hahaha....I was trying to be nice.
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UTC quote
My guess is that a 20 12 model with a few improvement and a dozen more cc will be in the program. Probably on the US market in 2013. R
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Hot rod based on the S150 frame.
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UTC quote
GTS
I guess if what you are looking for is more top end, just get a motorcycle....more pickup too...I just don't understand who would buy a 250 new when for $200 more, you can have the newest, biggest Vespa? It isn't enough for me to sell mine (at a huge loss now) and buy the 300...so, if and when they make a 400 or 500, I will then consider trading up.
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UTC quote
mbnz77 wrote:
I think the 300 engine will be it for a while, Piaggio will release a GTV 300 next year and there are also going to be a couple of new versions of the 300 Super.
Something along the lines of a touring version I would expect, but essentially a 300 Super.
really? is this confirmed? news of a gtv 300? or just your prediction? thanks...

i think its going to be the 300 in more collors..then...a new body..
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UTC quote
To add to fuel to the fire - Piaggio are designing a new Vespa. However, the word is that it will not have the same body as the 250/300. That design has reached its apogee with the 300. 250 to be dropped, apparently.

If you must look to the future then look to the Beverly and the SH 300. Those, I am lead to believe, are the templates. What you are not going to have is a Vespa 250 body with a 400 cc engine.

The Sh 300 has created a motorcycle scooter market (the SH 300 handles much more like a motorcycle than a Vespa 300 in terms of stability and cornering. It's simply better). Vespa 300 is a good stab at competing in the European market but it is not enough.

Some did post proposed designs of a new Vespa with a larger capacity engine here a while back which I believe are genuine, I did not like them but believe that they are a good indicator of where the new Vespa is headed.
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If you freaks want a damn motorcycle, just buy a damn motorcycle.

Scooter plusses--quick handling, light(ish) weight, low center of gravity, great fuel economy, good carrying capacity.

Not going to get some or all of those with a land of the giants Vespa.

Plenty of big bikes out there. If you want one, you know what to do.

If not, stop messing with a good thing.

P.
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TheO.Z. wrote:
I'm not sure they'll avoid makig a 400 or 500. But my question would be if it'd be well received. Hell, that'd basically be the end of vespa in the sense of producing small, economical vehicles. They already aren't economical.
my 300 is better on fuel than any of my geared scooters( and ive had nearly 70) and that included a PK 125 also there savings on 2T oil i currently save £50 per thousand miles on oil compaired to my lambretta 225 which the gts replaced
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shocky wrote:
TheO.Z. wrote:
I'm not sure they'll avoid makig a 400 or 500. But my question would be if it'd be well received. Hell, that'd basically be the end of vespa in the sense of producing small, economical vehicles. They already aren't economical.
my 300 is better on fuel than any of my geared scooters( and ive had nearly 70) and that included a PK 125 also there savings on 2T oil i currently save £50 per thousand miles on oil compaired to my lambretta 225 which the gts replaced
when I say economical, I mean from the iniial investment side. These bikes are not cheap, and not anyone looking to buy them can afford them. Yet, the intent when they were first produced was to be a cheap form of transportation the regular person in post WWII Italy could afford.
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ok i see Laughing emoticon the reason is they have become a brand name i suspect the budget end of scooters is now things like the sym http://www.symscooters.co.uk/fiddle.htm check out the headset look familier
i just looked at there price list and there no cheaper than piaggios but ther must be cheap chinese scooters that are half the price of a vespa
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UTC quote
shocky wrote:
my 300 is better on fuel than any of my geared scooters( and ive had nearly 70) and that included a PK 125 also there savings on 2T oil i currently save £50 per thousand miles on oil compaired to my lambretta 225 which the gts replaced
So... we're comparing it to a kitted lambretta in terms of fuel economy? Come on. You clearly had a TS1 or Rapido or some kit on there, which meant you had a big pipe and a big carb and the thing probably DRANK gas.

Lambretta never made a 200cc+ production bike. Kept stock, and driven conventionally ( not thrashed on ), you'd use far less gas ...and thus burn far less 2T oil.

The advertised fuel consumption of my wife's LI150 was 124 miles per gallon! Even the mighty SX200 had a posted 93mpg rating, when kept stock and rode conservatively.
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Paul G. wrote:
If you freaks want a damn motorcycle, just buy a damn motorcycle.

Scooter plusses--quick handling, light(ish) weight, low center of gravity, great fuel economy, good carrying capacity.

Ding ding ding.

A scooter, despite those maxi couches that are somehow called "scooters" is a lightweight, easy to use, smaller version of a motorcycle. They were designed for city use by the masses. The great benefit to them is that they are good on fuel economy, SMALL, light, easy for anyone to learn to ride, even women (yes, that was a target of the scooter companies - women).

Getting into 500cc motors and all that? Ceases being a scooter. If you want 500ccs buy a motorcycle.
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shocky wrote:
ok i see Laughing emoticon the reason is they have become a brand name i suspect the budget end of scooters is now things like the sym http://www.symscooters.co.uk/fiddle.htm check out the headset look familier
i just looked at there price list and there no cheaper than piaggios but ther must be cheap chinese scooters that are half the price of a vespa
SYM HD200 is a surprisingly competitive bike to the GT/GTS/BV. It's $500 less than the LX, which it can quite easily out perform and requires hands down less maintenance.

I'm not even talking budget end, but there's still a $1500 price gap between Piaggio's Fly 150 and LX150.

You know that Vespa has not always been a "boutique" brand, right? Name brand or not, it hadn't been intended to be seen as a "boutique" brand until the new ET (non-ET3) series...

Hell, Allstate. Period.

Vespa has wandered far from its roots, in its approach to vehicles.
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UTC quote
CORSA IFP wrote:
Paul G. wrote:
If you freaks want a damn motorcycle, just buy a damn motorcycle.

Scooter plusses--quick handling, light(ish) weight, low center of gravity, great fuel economy, good carrying capacity.

Ding ding ding.

A scooter, despite those maxi couches that are somehow called "scooters" is a lightweight, easy to use, smaller version of a motorcycle. They were designed for city use by the masses. The great benefit to them is that they are good on fuel economy, SMALL, light, easy for anyone to learn to ride, even women (yes, that was a target of the scooter companies - women).

Getting into 500cc motors and all that? Ceases being a scooter. If you want 500ccs buy a motorcycle.
Agreed. Scooters are classically designed for use in a city.

Those who quest for more power in your Vespa - how many of you use that scooter for city riding? The 300 has enough already. If you want more for touring, there's plenty else (including maxi couches and good motorcycles) out there.
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UTC quote
CORSA IFP wrote:
Ding ding ding.

A scooter, despite those maxi couches that are somehow called "scooters" is a lightweight, easy to use, smaller version of a motorcycle.
Really, though ...the word "Scooters" is lost to us. What it meant 50 years ago ( and still means to us ) ...and what it means now are two different things.

Razor scooter ... amigo mobility scooter ... 900cc Bohemoth Maxi-scoot ... Zing-zang 50...

they all bear the same categorical name, regardless of what you and i WANT the the term to actually apply to. Pandora's box was opened a long time ago.
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UTC quote
peabody99 wrote:
given how scooters and MC's are languishing on the vine (at least in US economy right now), I imagine it could be a while. That said, if they could put the BV500 engine in a Vespa frame, that would be sweet.
All it takes is more expensive gas...

Seth
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UTC quote
Great thread. I enjoy this kind of discusson!
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