Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:40 am

Molto Verboso
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Location: Southern California
 
Molto Verboso
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Location: Southern California
Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:40 am linkquote
Our 2006 GT200 (still under warranty) is in the Vespa dealer's shop because it is making a loud grinding noise upon acceleration. I have read through all the old posts here about this, but am not getting any satisfaction from the service department.

The tech in the shop is using the famous "cannot be duplicated" line. We explained that the problem starts after the bike has been ridden for a bit, and a 5 minute test drive probably isn't going to do it.

Any ideas on how to deal with the service department on this? The bike has been sitting there for two weeks now.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:07 am

Petty Tyrant
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Petty Tyrant
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Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:07 am linkquote
Piaggio is very much aware of the problem. Insist, politely but firmly, that the GT200 clutch has a very well-known issue that your bike seems to be afflicted with, and ask them to call Eric Larson (at Piaggio) if they're unsure how to proceed. The three pieces of information that they need to tell Eric are "GT200", "Clutch", and "Grind". That should take care of it.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:23 am

Hooked
2019 VESPA SPRINT 150
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 404
Location: lake havasu city, az
 
Hooked
2019 VESPA SPRINT 150
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 404
Location: lake havasu city, az
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:23 am linkquote
Step 1. Jess' advice is probably good.

Step 2. Call a couple of other service depts and see if you can find someone more customer service oriented. I don't know where your bike is, but I've heard horror stories about some socal dealers. Another shop may say " Oh, the dreaded gt200 grind, we know what to do, can you bring it in Tuesday?"

Step/Option 3. Get a written copy of the repair order complaining of the problem while under warranty. Drive it till it drops. Make warranty claim.

My preferred course of action would be #2. Not only do I get my Vespa fixed, but I'm in the process of developing a good working relationship with a competent, customer oriented shop.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:26 am

Molto Verboso
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Location: Southern California
 
Molto Verboso
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Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:26 am linkquote
jess wrote:
Piaggio is very much aware of the problem. Insist, politely but firmly, that the GT200 clutch has a very well-known issue that your bike seems to be afflicted with, and ask them to call Eric Larson (at Piaggio) if they're unsure how to proceed. The three pieces of information that they need to tell Eric are "GT200", "Clutch", and "Grind". That should take care of it.
Jess, thank you. I just called the dealer's service department with that information. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope that it works. At this point, I am just hoping that I don't have to cart it around from dealer to dealer, paying for them to "diagnose" the problem each time.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:28 am

Hooked
2019 VESPA SPRINT 150
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 404
Location: lake havasu city, az
 
Hooked
2019 VESPA SPRINT 150
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 404
Location: lake havasu city, az
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:28 am linkquote
I wouldn't be willing to pay them $.02 for diagnosis work on warranty.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:48 am

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
ET4
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Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:48 am linkquote
joel wrote:
I wouldn't be willing to pay them $.02 for diagnosis work on warranty.
How do I get out of paying it?
Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:54 am

Petty Tyrant
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Petty Tyrant
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Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:54 am linkquote
Alice wrote:
joel wrote:
I wouldn't be willing to pay them $.02 for diagnosis work on warranty.
How do I get out of paying it?
They shouldn't be charging to diagnose a warranty issue in the first place.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:03 pm

Hooked
2019 VESPA SPRINT 150
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 404
Location: lake havasu city, az
 
Hooked
2019 VESPA SPRINT 150
Joined: 30 Dec 2005
Posts: 404
Location: lake havasu city, az
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:03 pm linkquote
I'm sorry; Ive GOTS to know where your scoot is?

Assuming that you signed an estimate, and assuming that they can actually demonstrate they have performed diagnostic work of some type, you may have to pay. I would be vocal re my displeasure. I have NEVER been asked to pay for diagnostic work on any vehicle in warranty. Calif may or may not have rules in this regard. You may want to call what was called the bureau of automotive repair regarding this issue. It is the state dept governing auto repair; don't know if they have jurisdiction in this case.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:17 pm

Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
 
Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
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Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:17 pm linkquote
Hi Alice
Good luck with your warranty and service.
In the longer term, and supposing Piaggio dont release a clutch drum modification kit, you may want to consider one of the following.

1. Learning to clean out the clutch yourself via the posts on MV (it's not too challenging).


2. The 'other' solution, of which I have become a recent convert. That is riding your GT a bit 'harder'. i.e. giving it some welly off the lights from time to time. Also some fairly hard acceleration up to motorway speed.
A couple of GT owners I know ride their GT's VERY hard and say they have never suffered clutch shudder. As it reoccurs on my GT, I go for a bit of a blast on the M'Way and really fang it off the lights. It brings a smile to my face and the clutch dust build up appears to clear for the time being.
So in short, your clutch is slipping and causing polishing in the drum, as well as accumulating dust. Make it do more work to 'bite' as it provides drive to the CVT.

Good luck
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:46 pm

Molto Verboso
ET4
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Location: Southern California
 
Molto Verboso
ET4
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Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:46 pm linkquote
joel wrote:
I'm sorry; Ive GOTS to know where your scoot is?

Assuming that you signed an estimate, and assuming that they can actually demonstrate they have performed diagnostic work of some type, you may have to pay. I would be vocal re my displeasure. I have NEVER been asked to pay for diagnostic work on any vehicle in warranty. Calif may or may not have rules in this regard. You may want to call what was called the bureau of automotive repair regarding this issue. It is the state dept governing auto repair; don't know if they have jurisdiction in this case.
I have never been asked to pay for diagnostic work on any vehicle under warranty, either. But this is my first time dealing with Vespa/Piaggio and it appears to be a whole new ballgame. Apparently, they look around to see if they can find the problem, then they contact Piaggio to see it they will cover it under warranty, then Piaggio decides who will pay. I've never heard anything like it. I've had many new vehicles with warranties and have never once had to pay for diagnosing anything while they were under warranty, regardless of whether or not they could "duplicate" the problem.
Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:51 pm

Ossessionato
Piaggio BV 250
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 2348
Location: Alameda, CA
 
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Piaggio BV 250
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Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:51 pm linkquote
It's extremely simple. Looks like a known issue to piaggio - it's under warranty - if they want to charge you - give them the number of your lawyer. This one sounds like a class-action waiting to happen.....
Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:49 pm

Addicted
GT-200L & 1991 p200e
Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 505
Location: Northern Cal, bay area
 
Addicted
GT-200L & 1991 p200e
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Location: Northern Cal, bay area
Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:49 pm linkquote
I don't know if this is "THE" shudder. Grinding noise doesn't quite describe it. If we're talking about the periodic "take off" shudder that occurs in the "lowest gear," it's very clear what the problem is. Are you all suggesting there's some Piaggio solution to this on the GT200? ( I understand it isn't happening on the GTS250. THAT's a mystery )

On my GT200, I have completely overcome the problem. There is no mystery: dust collects on the clutch and the belt. It wrecks the coefficient of friction. I assume.

About once a week I remove the chrome-plastic V-E-S-P-A cover on the CVT and blast 90 PSI air into the three holes. It is a touch more effective when I rev the engine a bit. I can do this at night and with a flashlight I can see the grey dust escaping.

A 50-60 MPH jaunt will do it, but not as effectively as compressed air.

I know this works because the shudder goes away for a while. "A while" being between 5 minutes and 5 days of daily commuting. I think if you search the many threads on this, you'll see buried in the speculation that "cleaning out the clutch housing" is the remedy.

( I know everyone doesn't have an air compressor in his shop. Don't know the solution to that one )

Russ
Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:51 am

Ossessionato
Scooterless at the moment
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2840
Location: Brooks, Alberta, Canada
 
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Scooterless at the moment
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:51 am linkquote
My LX150 has started making a rear wheel grinding noise in the few minutes
of take off in the mornings on my way to work and on the way home from work.

I'll ask the mechanic about it today when I take the bike in for the first servicing.

BTW...
I'm finally getting those paint peeled body panels replaced today that the
leaking brake fluid ruined from day one of my ownership.

Dave
Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:31 am

Petty Tyrant
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Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
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Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:31 am linkquote
pointpergame wrote:
I don't know if this is "THE" shudder. Grinding noise doesn't quite describe it. If we're talking about the periodic "take off" shudder that occurs in the "lowest gear," it's very clear what the problem is. Are you all suggesting there's some Piaggio solution to this on the GT200? ( I understand it isn't happening on the GTS250. THAT's a mystery )
The shudder and the grind are related in that both have to do with the clutch slipping off the clutch bell when starting from a dead stop. The dust is certainly a major factor in the shudder, and may lead to the more severe grinding symptom by allowing the clutch pads to polish the inside of the clutch bell, leading to an occasional complete loss of clutch engagement.

Blowing out the dust definitely helps.

As for the GTS, I've detected some very minor shuddering after repeated low-speed stopping and starting (in-town riding). This usually clears up after a good long fast ride. I don't know of any GTSs with the grind symptom, though.
Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:58 am

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Scooterless at the moment
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 2840
Location: Brooks, Alberta, Canada
 
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Scooterless at the moment
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Location: Brooks, Alberta, Canada
Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:58 am linkquote
I got a definite "Shudder" today with my LX150 as I left to take the bike to
the shop for the first warranty servicing, It was reluctant to accelerate and it "Shuddered".

How do you blow the dust out of there on an LX150?
Maybe the mechanic knows, I mentioned the "Shudder" when I got there.

Dave
Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:02 pm

Molto Verboso
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Location: Southern California
 
Molto Verboso
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Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:02 pm linkquote
Just an update on this GT-Grind-Clutch issue:

Jess' suggestion to have my service department call Eric Larsen at Piaggio regarding my clutch actually worked like a charm! Mr. Larsen gave them the go-ahead to dis-assemble the clutch and they did find a problem there. They are going to replace the clutch bell and shoes under warranty.

I am thrilled with this tip and thrilled with the results. Thank you, Jess! This forum and the people here are awesome!

Cheers,
Alice
Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:15 pm

Molto Verboso
2006 Vespa LX150
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1457

 
Molto Verboso
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Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:15 pm linkquote
dolawren wrote:
I got a definite "Shudder" today with my LX150
Let me know what the mechanic says. I am taking mine in for its 2000 mile service and it has a bit of a shudder too.
⬆️    About 3 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:25 pm

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GTS300 Super 2015 Blue, GTS300 Super 2018 White
Joined: 01 Nov 2005
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:25 pm linkquote
Just an addendum to an old topic. My GT has just had its 12000km service, and has now acquired a new noise - a sort of screech - which doesn't occur at take-off, but above about 60kph.

During the service I had some Malossi clutch springs fitted - the middle range white ones, which are a bit stiffer than the standard springs. The intention of these springs is to allow the engine to gain more revs before the clutch takes, to reduce/eliminate the take-off hesitation.

I guess that if there is a known problem with clutch bells slipping, then these springs could aggravate the problem, and be the cause of my new noise.

Any comments or experiences with these springs?

Mike
Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:34 pm

Addicted
GTV250 GTS 300!! MP3 500, Lambretta TV200 S3 77 07 Aprilia Tuono 1000R 64 Vespa Vbb150
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 620
Location: Los Angeles/San Diego
 
Addicted
GTV250 GTS 300!! MP3 500, Lambretta TV200 S3 77 07 Aprilia Tuono 1000R 64 Vespa Vbb150
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Posts: 620
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:34 pm linkquote
Alice,

How many miles did your scooter have?? I have had the shudderign issue, but cleaned out the clutch which resolved that issue.

Jon
Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:37 pm

Molto Verboso
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Location: Southern California
 
Molto Verboso
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Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:37 pm linkquote
scooterjon wrote:
Alice,

How many miles did your scooter have?? I have had the shudderign issue, but cleaned out the clutch which resolved that issue.

Jon
It had somewhere around 2k miles. Haven't had a problem since they replaced the clutch parts, but haven't put too many miles on it since then.
Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:06 pm

Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
 
Moderator Australis
2014 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone, 2014 Vespa 150 Primavera (sold) 2003 Vespa GT200 (sold)
Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 5652
Location: New Zealand where it is already tomorrow..
Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:06 pm linkquote
Hi Alice

The latest development on this front was from Gary ' Addicted'.
The $10 solution is an absolute winner and I have just had a 'shudder free' month following his advice.

The answer is a can of 'Brakleen'.

It works brilliantly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=88790&highlight=#88790
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:53 pm

Addicted
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
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Posts: 603

Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:53 pm linkquote
Dear Alice,

Has that problem of yours vanished completely since you've had your bike serviced? Or has it come back? Mine's doing the same thing. Took it in and they said something about a bearing being rough (wasn't talking to the tech though). It's come back though.

The spraying of brake cleaner in the clutch housing may be helpful, but I shouldn't have to do that on a brand-friggin-new vespa. Especially not once a week.
⬆️    About 8 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:12 am

Hooked
Vespa GT 200 '04
Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 190
Location: London
 
Hooked
Vespa GT 200 '04
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Posts: 190
Location: London
Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:12 am linkquote
jess wrote:
Piaggio is very much aware of the problem. Insist, politely but firmly, that the GT200 clutch has a very well-known issue that your bike seems to be afflicted with, and ask them to call Eric Larson (at Piaggio) if they're unsure how to proceed. The three pieces of information that they need to tell Eric are "GT200", "Clutch", and "Grind". That should take care of it.
Hi Jess,

Don't suppose this Eric Larson you mention deals with European Vespa clutches too? Mine's doing the same so badly after a ride through London that it sounds like an ocean liner in fog off the lights, and won't engage for about two seconds at worst. Full bore starts are the only way to minimise it.

Did find today though that removing the circular plastic transmission cover that says Vespa on it and going for ride safely above 40-50mph reduced the grind to a less inconvenient minor judder back in heavy traffic if that helps anyone. Might use this trick when carrying a passenger as it seems to develop more quickly and more severely two-up.

Cheers!

David
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