Modern Vespa

Ok, I am having some clutch issues. It isn't working at all. I made sure the cable was tight and it is moving the clutch arm, but when I try and shift with the engine on it just goes into gear.

I know on my dirtbike the engine oil circulates through the clutch and this could happen if the oil is low. Is this the same on my scoot.

If so, how do I check the oil? I would like to change it anyway. Also, if not, do I need to replace the clutch?

Thanks.

Is it moving the clutch arm enough? You have to preload it first - push the arm in until it's hard as shit to move, then push a bit more THEN tighten the little cable nipple against the arm. from there you use the adjuster nut to tighten it up if need be. I usually use a screwdriver as a lever to get the arm tight then fiddle around with the cable nipple. Make sure you pull the cable tight by hand first.

Oil is like any motor. Locate the drain plug on the bottom of the motor, locate the fill plug. Drain and fill with 30 W NON-detergent.

If that doesn't work it's time to remove the clutch cover and look inside, and probably remove the clutch. Plates are cork and could be shot, or the brass thing in there could be shot, etc.

Soak new plates in oil for a few hours before re-install.

Ok. I ddnt know that the arm should be preloaded. I will try pushing moving it as far as I can before I tighten the stopper. Hopefully that works.

Thanks,
Rick

Ok, i pushed the arm as far as i could and then i tightened the cable nipple. When I 1st started it I could put it in gear. It seemed like it wanted to inch forward a little still though. I drove around the block and it started out shifting ok, but by the time I got back it isn't working again.

When I look at it it looks like the arm is still almost all the way forward that I pushed it, but the clutch handle is definitly easier then it was when I 1st tightened it.

maybe you didnt tighten the nipple well enough. sounds like you need to push a little harder on the arm and then tighten the nipple a little harder and be sure and start with the slack adjuster screwed all the way in first. you screw it out to increase torsion on the cable.

http://vespamaintenance.com/body/clcable/index.html




good old vespa maintenance . com

love a dirty scoot engine ................ that thing is ridden and ridden .... ohh it works for me

ohh shit did i really type that

OK, so I am pretty sure my clutch is shot. I can move the arm (where the nipple is) to about 1-2" from where the slack adjuster is.

I wanted to see if anyone has recommendations on which clutch assembly to buy and from where? I also need a clutch cable, i figured I might as well change that at the same time.

Incase I didnt mention, it is a 2002 PX200.

Thanks,
Rick

In process of rebuilding the engine, but having troubles with the clutch not disengaging. Preloaded the clutch arm, tightened the cable as far is it could possibly go, nothing. Disconnected the cables and twisted the arm with a wrench as far as it would go and the clutch still would not disengage. (I know it wasn't disengaging because, when i move the kick-start, the wheel still spins)

A new clutch was installed by the previous owner, as far as i know, this was done correctly, but i would rather not open up the clutch case to find out.

Would there be any other reason, besides a bad clutch, that would be causing this?

yes and yes you both need new clutch work. prolly not an entire assembly though. just some parts.

I guess that I probably only need the cork, but I will have to open it up too see.

Wheres the best place to get clutch parts?

http://www.scootersoriginali.com/osc/

OK, I bought all the parts from scooterworks. I bought a 4 plate clutch kit which supposedly will make the clutch smoother then the stock 3 plates. I also bought all the other parts that scooterhelp.com suggested that I replace. I bought everything including a new clutch cable and clutch compression tool (i knew I could make one, but it didnt cost too much) all for $100 delivered.

Seems like a lot better then the $400 minimum the local vespa dealor wanted to charge. Especially since I know they wouldnt ve replacing all the parts that I am.

Everything i have seen on clutch repair shows a castellated nut in this position. Is there any case in which this would be different?

Yeah the Cosa clutch comes with a special nut with crimped threads and a wavy washer that goes in place of the castellated nut.

ok, i have an issue. WHen i was taking my clutch out, there is a piece in the clutch cover that pushes against the clutch to engage it when the clutch cable pulls on the arm. It popped out of the cover and s/s balls fell all over the place. I can send pictures if neccessary.

Anyway, I wanted to see what this piece(s) are called and where I can get. I have teh rest of my clutch parts coming from scooter works, but they are pretty much useless unless I can find this part to replace also.

Thanks,
Rick

Most clutch pressure plates look like this..



If you have one of the bearing type clutch pressure plates, they look like the ones in this link.

http://www.sip-scootershop.com/Products/50040000/Details.aspx

I hope those ball bearings didn't fall into the inside of the case. If so, you'll need to get them out. That may require opening up the case.

If you have the one from SIP you do not need to replace it with that one. You can replace it with a regular pressure plate and brass thing.

Save you a ton of money and shipping time.

They come in two styles though - am assuming your housing has a completely round hole covering the clutch nut. The other style has an almost round with about 30% flat spot. You can grind the round pressure plates to fit these, or just order the correct one.

I have only seen one of those SIP bearings and it wasn't in a scoot. Need to warn the dude that they have the potential to asplode.

i really think you should have someone else actually take a look before you go and start buying shit, you already bought the wrong clutch kit, you have a PX200(a recent one as well) it has a cosa clutch, there arent 4 plate kits for them, as they are already 4 plate, you also dont have a castle nut, the cosa nut is specific as are the plates and springs.

personally i just think you have it out of adjustment. it would take a rediculous amount of abuse to ruin a clutch, especially one so new.
find someone local that actually owns and rides vespas and knows what they are doing take a look at it in person(like real life)

and where did you pick up a px200? those were never imported to the states.

OK. I got the PX from another member of this forum. The parts I ordered were supposed to be for a VSX, so I guess I wrongly assumed that these were the right ones.

the clutch is definitly not working unless there is a different adjustment other then tightening the cable against the arm.

I have rebuilt a motocross clutch before and I assume it cant be too different with the exception of a few parts.

If it is a better idea to buy a complete clutch, then point me in the right dirrection and I will do that.

Also, it looks like I had a pressure plate with the ball bearings, can I replace that with a regular one? Otherwise I think I could get it back together. I could hold the bearings in place with grease while I put the plunger back in.

attached is a picture.

wow..that's pretty crazy - i've never seen one of those.

I've heard of them but never seen one. I've also heard that they seem to do what your picture indicates. Replace it with the stock pressure plate and you'll be back on the road.

First, get a new brass plunger and toss that bearing. Then, assuming you didn't drop any bearings into the engine case, reinstall the clutch if you took it out, with the pressure plate and new brass plunger in place. Put the clutch cover back on, and see if you can adjust it properly.

If that bearing blew and you could pull the lever without compressing the clutch, the brass plunger may fix the problem.

If not, disassemble the clutch and/or replace it.

I've had two friends with PX200 motors blow their clutch, one of them repeatedly (and he used to race scooters, is a professional mechanic, and did not blow it up easily) until he put a standard VSX clutch in there which he swears by now.

Yeah, thats a good call. When I get the parts in, I will try installing the new plunger 1st, before I go through all the trouble of rebuilding the entire clutch.

thanks

yeah I was going to order one for my motor last year but Customs will put a hold on anything that has "bearing" on the packing slip - there's some kind of weird US/EU thing going on with bearings, so I didn't.

My friend Marc just ordered one and showed it to me Saturday I was like "Dude how did you get this through Customs so quickly?" and he said "Holy crap I forgot about that. Let me check the packing slip" and when he checked it definitely said Clutch actuating bearing (or whatever they're calling it) so Customs must have just missed it.

ANYWAY, it looks cool as shit but appears that it no worky long time, and that motor it's in sure isn't a tuned beast. Wonder how it'd work in a high HP motor....

OK, if these pictures are correct, then I dont have a cosa clutch in my Scooter. My clutch looks like the P200 clutch when I took the clutch cover off.

They could have just used the Cosa clutch nut instead of the castellated nut.

I don't see why you couldn't. Anyone else have any input on it?

OK, so here is a picture of my clutch with the cover off (not the greatest picture), but as far as I can tell it isnt a cosa clutch. It looks like it has the 7 springs like the P200, not 8 smaller springs on the inner part like the cosa. It also has a castellated nut.

So am I correct to assume that parts for the VSX clutch should be compatible?

Yes, looks like the standard early P200 (VSX) clutch.

Maybe it's just the pic, but looks like you might have some fun getting that clutch nut off if you have to dig into it that far.

it also looks like there's a good amount of ground metal in there, collected around the nut.

yeah, there is definitly some metal powder in there. What is the best way to clean it out? Should I just flush it out with oil? Does the gear box oil run through the clutch? Should I just chage the gearbox oil, run it for a little while and then do that again a few times?

Also, what would be the most probable cause of that? Would it be from the pressure plate against the spinning clutch or from the clutch itself?

Thanks.

You know what it's probably from? Your bearing-pressure plate thingy that broke.

Normally, brass dust in your oil is kinda normal. ( wear parts are brass )

Greyish dust is bad - it means something that's steel and not supposed to wear off, has.

There's an "anti-dumping" tariff on bearings, so customs will often hold the package till the tariff is paid.

The unfortunate thing is, even if they screw up and miss something, there's is no statute of limitations on the tariff and at any point they can go back, reassess a tariff, and charge it to you, with a penalty and interest.

Customs did this to us recently for a shipment from 5 years ago where the tariff was undercharged. I tried to fight it, but there was no way.

Holy crap that sucks.

SIP should be told to stop calling any of their stuff "bearings" in English.

I need a complete set of "Round Metal Rolly Things"

Whats sucks is that its a protectionist tariff thats meant to stop distributors from dumping cheaper bearings onto the US market. The US bearing manufacturers state that bearings made for overseas markets are not the correct quality/spec (or whatever) for US applications. If a bearing is unavailable here, from a US bearing place, the tariff isn't supposed to apply. Some of the bearings we sell aren't available in the US, and those are the ones we import, and those were the ones we got the extra assessed on!!

Andrea

OK, so it looks like the plunger part of the ball bearing pressure plate is what failed and it looks like it was wearing away the clutch basket which was the cause for the metal shavings. It doesnt work like a traditional pressure plate. Rather then being attached to the clutch basket with a clip, it is attached to the plunger and the whole assembly pushes against the clutch.

I replaced the plunger and pressure plate with a normal one and the clutch works good as new now. So I lucked out and I dont have to rebuild my clutch.

Total cost was about $10 in parts and 45 mins of my time.

Here is a picture of the broken part.