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@dullivan avatar
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Hooked
Super 150
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Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
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Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
So we're calling it quits on Sunny. You can see the all the pictures and everything on my project thread found here:

Sunny - Dullivan's Super 150 Project Thread

Long story short, we went to town on the cylinder, but nothing came of it, so we got into the engine through the clutch. Sand poured out when we pulled the clutch cover off. The inside of the engine is nothing but rust and dirt. In summary, here's the last paragraph of my project thread post. I thought it'd be worth posting over here to facilitate discussion, and also to point out that I'm building a MAME (arcade) cabinet.
Quote:
So, lesson learned. I won't be buying a scooter, project or not, unless it runs. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to take a break from scooters and build an arcade cabinet. Much cheaper, and I can tell what I'm getting when I'm looking at wood and electronics. Don't worry, I'll be back sooner or later to restore another scooter, but its going to be awhile before my budget recovers. Anybody wanna buy a mostly disassembled project bike in the Southeast GA area? I'll deliver within reasonable distance. Pictures can be found below of some spots that need "extra care" if you decide to take her. At least you'll know what you're in for.
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
PX125 Dully... Razz emoticon
OP
@dullivan avatar
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Hooked
Super 150
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Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
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Location: Southeast, GA
UTC quote
VLBJS1 wrote:
PX125 Dully... Razz emoticon
Are you really rubbing in the fact I didn't buy the bike you wanted me to on the day I discover my bike is junk? That's cold dude.
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Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Dullivan wrote:
VLBJS1 wrote:
PX125 Dully... Razz emoticon
Are you really rubbing in the fact I didn't buy the bike you wanted me to on the day I discover my bike is junk? That's cold dude.
Heh...I'm just messn' with you. It's shitty that it didn't work out the way you wanted it too. We were all hoping you would be up and riding..but lesson learned though..don't get caught standing there with your dick in our hand while you could be out there riding instead.

You will find something soon again and you will know to buy something that is put together and runs.
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nothing at all
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nothing at all
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UTC quote
dullivan, you are correct

jason you are being a bit of a a--(it takes one to know one)

and yes, that motor looks shot

the cases might be saved by a veteran

and i'm sorry that the frame is in just as bad a shape

i can see how both will discourage you

i'm discouraged looking at it myself

i can say that that is not how i got into the scooter thing

my history is with two running bikes as my first

i am sorry
@koenig_blues avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@koenig_blues avatar
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
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UTC quote
ohhh dully, i feel so sad about ur sunny.. i hope it will be a lesson for u and hopely in future u will find a running vespa with low budget so u can just ride it and no need to worry about the repairing

wish u the best and cheer
@chad avatar
UTC

Olivia Newton-John
p200, vbb, gt200, px150, vnb
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Location: chippewa falls, wisconsin
 
Olivia Newton-John
@chad avatar
p200, vbb, gt200, px150, vnb
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UTC quote
bah. that sucks.
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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UTC quote
that's too bad!

looks like you may have damaged the case in prying... probably the best way to approach the cylinder would have been to split the cases, and pulled out the crank.

looks like water (or humidity?) got into the case? weird.

still... this might sound hopeful, but it could be rebuildable. the case might be ok. the crank/top end/clutch are obviously toast. there's not much more to the engine but the gears/drive shaft...

i saw a vbb engine on CL this week for $30! it was gone the same day... might be worth it to look out for an engine... you can find one cheaper than an LML one new...
@hotboxdeluxe avatar
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Ossessionato
'09 S50, '79 V50
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Ossessionato
@hotboxdeluxe avatar
'09 S50, '79 V50
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UTC quote
^as above, why not look for a cheap used engine before giving up?
@ronin avatar
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Addicted
Vespa Rally 180 BMW R1150R Suzuki Burgman 400
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Addicted
@ronin avatar
Vespa Rally 180 BMW R1150R Suzuki Burgman 400
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UTC quote
Very sorry for your loss, but just give it some time mate, and you'll be back. There is no shame in taking some time off.

Keep an eye out for a cheapish used engine, they do come up from time to time.
@killo avatar
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Ossessionato
I have a few scooters....
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Ossessionato
@killo avatar
I have a few scooters....
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UTC quote
Sorry it didn't work out. Post the usable pieces for sale. Maybe you can get back a few bucks.
OP
@dullivan avatar
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Hooked
Super 150
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Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
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UTC quote
Since a few people have said it's salvagable with a lot of work, I'll probably post it as a project on craigslist for a couple hundred and basically take whatevers (reasonably) offered. If I don't get any replies in a month, I'll part it out. I've already gotten an offer on here for my turn signals.

As far as getting a new engine, the frame is pretty questionable as well. We went with it thinking we could get a welder to work on it, but at least we had an engine and could go from there. I guess that idea got turned on it's head.
@hjo avatar
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Molto Verboso
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@hjo avatar
Scattered remnants of (two!) 1974 Rallys
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UTC quote
here you go... most of a Rally motor for $250.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/mcy/1398699161.html
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Molto Verboso
1967 Gran Turismo 1963 Lambretta S3 TV175 1971 Rally 180
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Location: Minneapolis
 
Molto Verboso
@danyouhandleit avatar
1967 Gran Turismo 1963 Lambretta S3 TV175 1971 Rally 180
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Location: Minneapolis
UTC quote
Ah, shit fuck Dully. If you can't ride a scooter, I guess the next best thing is video games. Good luck with that.
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@dullivan avatar
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Hooked
Super 150
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Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
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UTC quote
Well, Eric's post on my project thread has convinced me to give splitting the cases a shot. Everything in there is probably slag, but we can sand blast the cases and sell them as well if nothing comes of it. We may only have to replace the whole top end (only...hah) but it looks like dad and I will be taking it all the way apart to look anyway. I thought to myself that I might as well go ahead and order the tools, since even if we get another engine we'll need them, and if we figure some things out on this engine, if we do get another, we'll know better what we're doing. So i guess what I'm saying is we're still keeping Sunny for awhile, but I don't know that there's much hope for her.

Speaking of tools, are all clutch nut tools the same? How can I tell which flywheel puller I need? And are there any other Vespa specific tools I should pick up? *whew* I'm glad I've finally gotten to ask at least one or two technical questions finally.
@rover_eric avatar
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Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Alright, slim, i'm glad to hear you're back on board. We all go through our periods of "fuck this noise" when we get upset about our bikes. You will have dozens of these incidents, so just learn to shrug them off ....go play video games for a couple days, and come back with renewed conviction later. I'm busy hammering away at the original Lego Star Wars... which is why you haven't seen much GS160 progress on my end


Now.. you only really NEED the one castelated clutch nut remover tool. There's no real getting away from that.

You can MAKE a clutch compressor tool out of a couple washers, a bolt and a wingnut.

You can MAKE a flywheel holder tool out of a piece of flat stock steel that you cut a few notches in with a dremel or angle-grinder, and drill a hole into. If you want, i can take my flywheel holder tool and trace it on a piece of paper ...scan it, and upload the PDF for you for you to use as a pattern to cut your own.

Also, an engine may seem like a valuable thing, because individually the cost to buy all those parts from a store would bankrupt you... but really, sprint / super engines sell for like $250-$300 COMPLETE. People practically GIVE away the stock top ends and other parts off of them, because they upgrade the guts and kit them out. As such, you could probably find folks on this forum who would mail you the stuff you need to rebuild that engine of yours. Folks tend to ditch the old engines in these models for P200's and LML150's / 200's.... or kit out what they've got, and the top end is the first thing to go, and crankshaft and carb second.
OP
@dullivan avatar
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Hooked
Super 150
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Location: Southeast, GA
 
Hooked
@dullivan avatar
Super 150
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UTC quote
I think it was less that I didn't want to do the work, and more that I thought (and probably still think a little) that we've bitten off way more than we can chew. Oh well, come what may, I'll just keep wrenching till there's nothing left to wrench on.
Rover Eric wrote:
Now.. you only really NEED the one castelated clutch nut remover tool. There's no real getting away from that.

You can MAKE a clutch compressor tool out of a couple washers, a bolt and a wingnut.

You can MAKE a flywheel holder tool out of a piece of flat stock steel that you cut a few notches in with a dremel or angle-grinder, and drill a hole into. If you want, i can take my flywheel holder tool and trace it on a piece of paper ...scan it, and upload the PDF for you for you to use as a pattern to cut your own.
Yes, but are all these tools the same for older bikes? I've only seen one clutch nut remover between scootermercato and scooterworks, however I think I've seen 7 or so flywheel holder puller dealies, and none of them say anything like Super or VNC. What should I be looking for?

A .pdf would be super awesome. It'll give us something to warm up my welding guy with (I'll ask him to cut it for us) to give us a chance to show him the project instead of just showing up and asking him to do the big stuff on the frame right off the bat. Got any instructions/specifics on the clutch compressor tool?
Rover Eric wrote:
Also, an engine may seem like a valuable thing, because individually the cost to buy all those parts from a store would bankrupt you... but really, sprint / super engines sell for like $250-$300 COMPLETE. People practically GIVE away the stock top ends and other parts off of them, because they upgrade the guts and kit them out. As such, you could probably find folks on this forum who would mail you the stuff you need to rebuild that engine of yours. Folks tend to ditch the old engines in these models for P200's and LML150's / 200's.... or kit out what they've got, and the top end is the first thing to go, and crankshaft and carb second
Well, that's rather encouraging, but I honestly just haven't seen them. Now, I know for a fact that's because its not the type of thing I was looking for in the past, but is that sort of stuff on the classifieds here and scoot.net and things? Anywhere else I can look online, since there's not a club around here? Speaking of which, I swear, I'm going to start a club in Brunswick once I get a running bike. It's really ridiculous that the nearest club to me is 5 hours away. I see scooters everywhere in town, especially at the college, but apparently nobody knows each other. [/b]
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
Well, by the time you finish this engine and bike, you might be the most vintage-scooter saavy person within 150 miles!

It has to start somewhere, man.


Your flywheel is a "self-extracting flywheel" ..so it doesn't need a flywheel PULLER, which you probably see a whole lot of advertised.

You don't need a clutch PULLER ( you'll have to pry out the clutch on your own ) but you will need a clutch nut remover. You need this because your clutch nut is castellated. This is standard across almost every engine type.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


and it's always nice to have a clutch compressor ( for allowing you to disassemble and rebuild your clutch ), but, like i said, you can make one yourself.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


I use an impact wrench to remove my flywheels, so i don't ever really use a flywheel holder tool, despite having 2 of them. The impact wrench turns the nut off so quickly / forcefully that the flywheel doesn't have time to move before it's off the crankshaft.
@gaseous_clay avatar
UTC

Addicted
1978 P200E, 1963 GS 160
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Posts: 663
Location: Decatur, GA
 
Addicted
@gaseous_clay avatar
1978 P200E, 1963 GS 160
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Posts: 663
Location: Decatur, GA
UTC quote
Hey Dully, very glad you're not giving up on this.

Question for both you and probably more for Eric. Wouldn't it be easier to just try to drill or sawsall all the non-case related crap out? Seems like you'll be discarding everything unless the flywheel is in good enough condition that it's worth keeping?

This is of course provided you won't damage the cases in the process.
@rover_eric avatar
UTC

Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
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@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
I mean, if he hasn't buggered up his crank somehow, it could still be saved one the piston gets pressed out.

I tried to be as non-destructive as i could when i disassembled my engine, which looked every bit as bad as his.
@gaseous_clay avatar
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1978 P200E, 1963 GS 160
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@gaseous_clay avatar
1978 P200E, 1963 GS 160
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UTC quote
Makes sense then. From here it looks like the cases are about the only thing worth salvaging.
@cooper avatar
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Hooked
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Hooked
@cooper avatar
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UTC quote
Sorry to hear that. Hope it all works out for you in the end. fair warning was given. A running scooter in need of work is much better for starters than something needing a complete restoration. keep plugging away at it and eventually it will all get sorted.
@smallstate avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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Posts: 1236
Location: Roseville, MI
 
Molto Verboso
@smallstate avatar
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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Location: Roseville, MI
UTC quote
cooper wrote:
Sorry to hear that. Hope it all works out for you in the end. fair warning was given. A running scooter in need of work is much better for starters than something needing a complete restoration. keep plugging away at it and eventually it will all get sorted.
i could not agree more. i would look for a deal on a running scooter. the economy is shitty and shit is coming out of the woodwork. it seems like scoots in your region are selling at a premium. so, i would enlarge your search area. if someone in your family has a 4 cylinder pickup or honda element... any higher mpg car that will fit a scooter... road trip it up!
@rover_eric avatar
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Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
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Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
He's got what he's got. Let's help him with that.
@quasi-moto avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
SawStop
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Posts: 5391
Location: Puyallup, WA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@quasi-moto avatar
SawStop
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Location: Puyallup, WA
UTC quote
Rover Eric wrote:
He's got what he's got. Let's help him with that.
I like your logic and focus.
@smallstate avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1236
Location: Roseville, MI
 
Molto Verboso
@smallstate avatar
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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Posts: 1236
Location: Roseville, MI
UTC quote
sorry. i was not trying to stir shit up.
@rover_eric avatar
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Moderator
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
 
Moderator
@rover_eric avatar
1965 Vespa SS180, 1963 Lambretta LI150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6980
Location: Detroit, Michigan
UTC quote
smallstate wrote:
sorry. i was not trying to stir shit up.
I know. It's fine. Dully's got a scoot... and based on his previous post about wanting to ditch it because it was overwhelming for him, we should be telling him in nice bite-sized chunks how to deal with what he's got.
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nothing at all
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nothing at all
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UTC quote
like i posted earlier, the cases might be saved and the frame is fine but for some rust

both my p projects had rust issues

dully, start getting back into with some simple drawings of what you would like the scoot to look like with some cutting done to the back

all of the rust areas are not structural

so cut the bad and keep the good

make some drawings and surf the net for cut downs you like

at the same time fiddle with the motor and try to get it open

small steps

drawings and fiddling with motor

both are free
@caoscape avatar
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Hooked
SS 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 118
Location: St. Louis, MO
 
Hooked
@caoscape avatar
SS 180
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Posts: 118
Location: St. Louis, MO
UTC quote
Work on something on it that will give you some easy positive results, whatever that is. Sometimes we just need a little win to get revitalized and back in the game.
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nothing at all
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nothing at all
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CAOscape wrote:
Work on something on it that will give you some easy positive results, whatever that is. Sometimes we just need a little win to get revitalized and back in the game.
yes

+1
@scooterraton avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2 - Many
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Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
 
Ossessionato
@scooterraton avatar
2 - Many
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Posts: 3165
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
UTC quote
For me the hardest part is pacing myself. Things always take longer tha I "think" they should. I get in a hurry and then I start to get myself in trouble. Sometimes I just have to tell myself...OK...thats enough for today...time to quit for now.
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