Modern Vespa

So... ran out of gas and tried to start empty. Filled up and still unable to start although it turns over. Now I hear that I ruined the fuel pump. I have a GTS 250ie. How come this isnt more common? I cant find out any info on replacing the fuel pump. Is there a good place to get a deal on a pump? Any other pertinent issues I ought to be aware of?

Help from the vespa hinterlands of ne florida.

Hi mule and welcome to Modern Vespa.

Is it possible that your fuel pump issues were pre-existing? Click this thread - GTS Fuel Pump Failure. (You can do a search for "GTS fuel pump" for lots of additional threads to read.)

Hope you get it sorted out soon!

My understanding is that the fuel pump is mounted inside your gas tank, and, in effect, uses the gas to prevent it's overheating. This is common practice for car fuel pumps as well (with the same problems).

Who told you that you ruined the fuel pump? When you turn the ignition to "on", do you hear a whirring sound for a second or so?
If you hear the whirring sound, then the pump simply needs to re-prime itself. You do this by turning the switch to "on-off" about a half-dozen times to get the gas flowing to the throttle body...................then, attempt to start it. Repeat until it starts. Now, if you don't hear the whirring sound, then one of two things has happened: Either the pump burned out and is ruined OR, the fuse for the fuel pump blew to protect it from burning out. If you don't hear the whirring sound, check the fuse first before replacing the pump. Good luck!

That is my understanding as well. Per page 64 of the owner's manual, trying to start with a dry tank can damage the pump.

where is the fuse for the fuel pump? No whirring sound when I turn the key...

Is there a guide to pulling the engine enough to get to the fuel pump?

Which fuse? Download and then read the owner's manual, and/or the circuit diagram.
http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/manuals/Vespa/GTS250/

Dougl explained very recently that the rear shocks had to be disconnected and the engine allowed to hinge down to get enough clearance to get the fuel pump out. A search should find this PDQ.

This diagram's better...
GTS250ie : Electrical Diagram and Components
The fuel pump is on the same fuse as the ignition coil and fuel injector: fuse #3 (10A) located in the engine compartment. Power to those components is switched by the injection loads relay.
But it could be that the pump doesn't whirr on start-up because it was knackered by being run dry.

ONe thing with fuel injection you never want to run out of gas, once the light goes on refill. It only takes two times and your fuel pump is gone according to a dealer.

That dealer is scaremongering, I would think. There is still over a litre of fuel in the tank when the last bar on the GTS display goes out. Running the pump when completely empty might be another matter.

The tank hold 9.2 l and when the bars disappear from the digital gauge, I can only get 7.5 litres in.

so how do you swivel the engine after removing the rear shocks? Any hoses or connections need to be removed? Can DougL or anyone detail the steps?

thanks all.
great site.

mule

Keep the scooter/engine on its centre stand.

Lift the seat up and take off the rear rack and plastic cover above the shocks.

Remove the shock top mounting and bottom bolts. Remove shocks. Someone will need to support the rear of the bike while you do this.

You should be able to lift the rear of the scoot up, but you will probably have to remove the plug lead. Keep an eye on the hoses and wiring as you may need to disconnect any that get stressed or put under tension.

PS I have not done this on a GTS, but have on an ET4 which is easier.


This is the instructions from the workshop manual

Fuel tank
- Remove the helmet compartment
- Remove the side fairings
- Remove the muffler
- Remove the luggage rack
- Remove the shock absorber upper clamps
- Remove the two screws, indicated in the figure,
that fix the tank to the body

Remove the screw indicated in the figure that fixes the tank to the body after removing the rear head-
light assembly

Remove the two turn indicators
- Use a jack to lift the body so that there is enough
space between the vehicle rear side and the en-
gine to slide off the tank
To refit, perform the steps in the reverse direction
to disassembly

It's all on page 269 of the manual.

http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/manuals/Vespa/GTS250/

so...above instructions will expose fuel pump? And then take out and put new in and then reverse, right? The concept of rotating engine up takes place because shocks are off right? Lifting back of scoot up (with help of "friend") effectively provides the rotation to get to the pump right? Or am I missing something / need more info?

btw: your great to supply this info.

carry on my man...

Look at the pictures in this thread. They will show you how to drop the engine. Here's the link........... GTS Engine Drop and Valve Adjustment

You can see the fuel pump and sender apparatus on top of the tank if you take the underseat bucket out and look at the top of the tank.

The screws on the tank need to be removed to lower it, and the chassis raised at the back to let the tank clear the chassis and the engine. I believe that the plastic fairings around the rear of the chassis all need removing. Not a difficult but a time consuming job.

Before you go to that much trouble, as its not priming with the ignition, just take the seat tub out, and look for the fuel pump multiplug on the RH side (its the front connection out of the 2 going to the fuel tank) and check to see if it gets a 12v supply when the ignition is first switched on... i doubt it is.

Running the pump for long periods with no fuel will kill it, just running out of fuel once would be extremely unlucky.

I would say the relay has stuck... or died.

Now why didn't I think of that?

OK great. Saw two black hoses(?) coming out of top of tank. I didnt find any plug though. There is a connector on chassis on that side but I dont think thats what your talking about. Do I need to take out gas tank first to get to multiplug?
Sorry I am thick headed. Be patient with me and keep supporting the cause!

Here's the diagram for the fuel tank.
You can find the complete workshop manual on kindly hosted on Jimc's site:
http://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/GTS250/

Yes, the connector - that's it. It's not in a very accessible spot; it'll be tricky to get undone.

Its tricky to get too but can be done... i only know as ive made the mistake of refitting the tank and then remembering the connector

You could also check the pin outputs on the injection relay itself which is much easier to check, just remember if that shows as being ok, but the pump doesnt prime, double check at the pump connector as well to rule out broken wiring...

I was thinking we may as well check at the pump connector. Could check for voltage at the fuel injector since they're on the same circuit. But as you say...

I punched a big hole on my Fuel Tank, now i purchased one online and i can't install it. I tried to take off the middle frame next to the foot rest and i ciuld not take it off. Can any one help, please?

It seems to be chronic on late model scooters,
I haven't had this problem yet on my 2006 Vespa GTS 250.

Will I have this problem?

I'm up to 25,000. km's now without a sputter.

Although I am the second owner.

A dealer I visited recently is dumb founded on the problem,
Quality control must be the problem.

If it only affects 1 in 10, Then it must be quality control.

You will need to drop the engine from the pivot to get at the fuel tank:
Here's how to drop the engine. GTS Engine Drop and Valve Adjustment

It is a MP3 250ie

You should start a new thread in the MP3 section on this forum. Yo're more likely to get help there.