Modern Vespa

Very true MSF in US method is to use kill switch, I ride both geared and a Auto so I'll stay with the switch, for safety reasons

Switch

No good reason, just habit. always have.
Miguel

Apparently you've never had a throttle cable hang up. That can be pretty scary when you are in traffic.

Perhaps my choice of the term "duress" was not appropriate... I didn't mean "anger" but a time of high stress (where many people freeze up).

-Craig

To use it sometimes would be to keep the contacts clean.

To not use it regularly could be because one doesn't trust the thing's longevity.

I have had, in a car, many years ago. No kill-switches in cars, I wonder why not. If they're frozen up so much they can't work out how to stop the engine (kill-switch, stall it using the brakes, or key) then they are doomed anyway.

only when I put my seat up!

Yes. Every single time I turn the bike off.

Dealers who tell you not to use it, or that it will wear out, are unequivocally wrong.

As noted by a few other wise riders in this thread, it is imperative that you be able to turn off the bike by reflex alone in the case of an emergency, potentially during a moment of chaos and confusion. The MSF drills this into your head. The dealers who inexplicably tell their customers not to use the kill switch are doing their customers a major disservice.

Dealers: Stop telling your customers not to use the kill switch, or I will hunt you down and smack some sense into you.

This wouldn't be a problem if you used it regularly, since it would be part of your regular start-up routine.

Just sayin.

Please identify this dealer so that I may counsel them.

I'm dead serious here -- dealers who tell their customers this are guilty of negligence.

Yes.

Good for you Jess, I wish I could have put it the way you did. I agree 100% and BTW some of the new bike don't even have keys. so what you do now?

We will have to agree to disagree on this one - I'm on the other side of the (artificially introduced?) fence here.

I pose the question again - so why don't cars have kill-switches? And perhaps, why do we think bikes had them introduced in the first place? I haven't done it yet, but perhaps some research on when and why they started to be introduced could be illuminating.

My guess would be that a geared bike that had crashed, still in gear and with the back wheel still spinning in mid-air would pose a problem for any non-biker to stop the engine if they have to search for where the ignition switch is - and possibly with a broken-off key. A nice big red kill-switch fits the bill, and for certain all emergency services and fellow riders would know where to look for it.

In normal use by the rider it shouldn't be necessary (IMHO, but also that of the MET Police, IAM, ROSPA and many other authoritative bodies here) - it's there for emergencies, but it is wise to use it occasionally (when waiting for an indeterminate time, say at a level-crossing) as it is then very easy to tab it off and eventually on again and just press the starter rather than phaffing with ignition keys.

without sounding bad, I think some habbits are age related, so older riders have habbits and won't change to newer ways.

It's good to re-examine some subjects, as there are a lot of urban myths around. Like the one about holding in a brake-lever with a cable-tie overnight to allow air to 'rise up and be released'. Thinking about it for more than a second or two will show this to be complete bunkum.

So back to first principles, who knows when and why the kill-switch was first introduced on motorbikes, and when and why was their inclusion on a bike made mandatory (which may vary - there are places where they are not required)?

its a start stop circuit plan and simple its made to be used, or why whould it be on the bike, Mfg. don't add stuff just for fun trust me if it save ten bucks they won't add it if not needed

Tip over switches whole other subject

http://motorcycleviews.com/general/seventhings_2.htm

I have no idea if this is the reason why kill switches were introduced... but when I first started on two wheelers they were off road machines. I remember more then one occasion where I took a fall and could not have reached my key to kill the motor while my right or left leg was momentarily pinned to the ground by the bike. Simple enough to hit the kill switch by the throttle since I could reach that.

You probably have less need for that with a car since with four wheels you are less likely to topple over and have the thing laying on top of you

I think someone already mentioned that ignition keys are not always located in "easy to reach" places on two wheelers. Imagine trying to reach for this in a pinch...

Switch.

Yes, I use the switch per MSF Basic and Advanced Class.

so, as i said, i use my kill switch every time. but, a year and a few months ago i damaged my wiring harness in my horn bezel with my fork stops (cut through 2 wires). i was riding my bike and some of my electrics died. my kill switch being one of them. so i had to put it in fourth (while stopped) and let the clutch out (an easy way to stall it). i guess my other option was to yank the plug wire.

I use the Kill Switch all the time when shutting off the scooter. I've done it ever since I was taught to ride motorcycles and MSF course. Now it's become muscle memory to kill switch and turn off ignition key.

I think (I don't know...) that the kill switch was made standard because the key locations aren't. Personally, I think they are a PITA, especially since I got stranded when mine failed.

I can think of many, many bad situations that are more likely to happen than one in which the kill switch would save the day. The key is easy to reach in the off chance that the throttle stuck.

I've seriously considered bypassing it altogether.

Jimc's logic seems sound to me. I don't use it on my GTS particularly because it increases the likelihood of walking away from the scooter with the keys still in the ignition. My ET2 doesn't have a cut out switch, it just has a dummy one to fill the hole. I assume this is how it was manufactured as it looks original although I'm not absolutely sure of this as I bought the bike second hand.

Kill.
Switch.
For all aforementioned reasons.

Also, it's not as easy to get the kill when some idiot is trying to run your bike off a cliff.

I have already indicated that I use the Kill Switch when turning off the motor in my prior post. Perhaps I should elaborate / clarify why I do this.

I presume that the reason myself (and other do this; as it is the intent of MSF) is to prevent an unintended / inadvertant opening of the throttle.

IMHO this is perhaps the reason why I personally make it a Standard Operating Procedure to turn off the motor with the kill switch...it's right there by my thumb...and I keep both brake levers covered...which was drilled into us @ MSF.

By not having to remove my throttle / brake hand (via moving hand could inadventantly open throttle...downward motion towards ignition). Yes, I know that my left hand should be on brake...and it is. But just by chance you ease off on the rear brake...why have this become an issue...just minimize potential injury / damage and

1) maintain cover and

2) kill engine with your thumb.

Additionally, whenever I come to a stop and will be parking / manuevering the scoot the engine is killed to prevent the possible unintended opening of the throttle.

Kill switch every time...for many of the reasons already cited.

Don't have a kill switch on my scoots. They came from the factory without them!

What a hefty load of nothing.

In 40+ years of road riding, 8 different bikes, I've never used the kill switch. I'm glad it's there in the unlikely event of a runaway throttle, but so far so good.

Stuck throttle or downed bike are the only reasons I can think of to use the thing and I'm positive I'm ready. Other than that, I can't think of a reason to shut the motor off any quicker than turning the key--I mean you're stopped, right?

P

Except for the one in Toronto, it has a kill switch Liane.

True!

When I took the MSF course, the Instructor said to use your Kill Switch to turn off you Bike. Been using the Kill Switch with zero problems since...

Thanks for casting aspersions on our attempts at sharing some wisdom. So you think you'll be able to do it reflexively, without thinking about it, having never used it? I suspect you'll be at a disadvantage to all the people who use it regularly. I'll bet real money that I can turn off my bike faster with the kill switch than you can with the key.

no, never have

What if the brake was mounted inside the legshield, and you had to reach down to slow the bike? Do you think your reflexes would be slowed by having to take your hands off the bars and reach down for the brake?

So why should shutting off the bike -- which might need to be done under far more chaotic circumstances than routine slowing down -- be any different than the brakes? Shouldn't you be able to kill the engine as quickly as you can reach the brakes?

Actually, if you ever dump your scooter on the right side,
you'll be very glad to have an automatic kill switch response
to quickly stop the bike from thrashing around
(& scraping up it's cowl in the process)

Apart from the opinion that practice makes habit, there are two other reasons why I prefer to use the kill switch first, and key second. The kill switch is on the headset, and I can shut off the engine without having to take one hand off of the handlebars. I have better control that way. The second reason is that I prefer to keep the kill switch off when I am away from my scooter. When I go to start up again, I follow the same routine: kill switch on, key on, engine on.

I have had snow mobiles, ATV's, motorcycles and scooters that all had kill switches and have never used them to shut down the engine as standard proceedure. Maybe it is a generational thing but I always thought of it as emergency equipment like a fire extinguisher.

When I was a teenager one of my friends pull started his snowmobile, fell backwards on his butt and the stuck throttle made the machine take off across his field toward the highway. I was the only one with my machine running so I took off after it thinking "you will never reach the key so hit the kill switch". Which I was able to do about 40 feet from the road.

So I guess "key" was my first thought but I quickly dismissed it when I knew it wasn't an option and sought the second option of "kill switch".

Yes, and you can with the kill-switch. I'm sure we all know it's there, and can all flick it off in a trice if needed - but this isn't about chaotic circumstances, it's about routine switch-off. I hear the argument about muscle-memory etc, but for those who park their bikes in places where they are vulnerable to theft are encouraged here NOT to use the kill-switch routinely, as then there is no immediate incentive to reach for the key, turn off, lock and remove it.

Forget your keys are in your bike anywhere around Central London and it's bye-bye bike - this may apply even more to those bikes whose keys are in 'strange' places.

I'm not saying don't use the kill-switch routinely if you (generic) wish to, just work out why it is better for you personally than another method. For instance, on the X9 with a latching side-stand, I use that to turn the bike off. Yes, I am risking forgetting the keys on that one, and have done a few times, thankfully only once not in my own driveway.

I'm with jim on this one though that's because we've been through the same schooling.

This is clearly cultural - I rarely use mine, on the basis that the key does the job pretty well. UK rules are for emergency use only. So its the key day to day and I've never given it more thought than that. Nobody told me not to use it, but then at every dealer I go to, they switch off with keys, so its lead by example.

My first scooters did not have kill switches while the GTS does. I have used that switch once in anger and the rest of the time hit it by opening my seat. I have never given it a thought to cover it while I ride.

This thread has given me some food for thought though.

If one is following the "I do it because of muscle memory" argument, I hope one remembers to give the horn a couple of toots every day, just in case one ever has to use it in anger.

I can never find the horn when I want it! It is in the most inconvenient of places I think!