Modern Vespa

I hear that argument, but (schooling aside) I'm officially on record as rejecting it. I've left my keys in plenty of places, but never the ignition. The reason? Locking the steering column requires the keys, and I never walk away from my bike without locking the steering column. I suspect the same goes for you, what with London being an apparent hotbed of scooter theft.

My horn thumb gets plenty of practice, many times daily.

Is there anything less important to the operation of a scoot than whether you turn it off with the key or kill-switch?

key

About half switch and half keys. I didn't realize that this was an issue at all, aren't all the switches and knobs in your bike supposed to be used? If the kill switch would be so delicate, wouldn't it need a glass window which first needs to be breaked before hitting the switch...

Perhaps it is also a difference between bikes with working side-stands or tilt-locks and those without. On a GTS (if I had one) I might very well remove the side-stand we're 'given', as it isn't a latching one and the 'hook' bends too easily. Then, I'd not want to lock the bike before putting it on the centre-stand, and in that case using the kill-switch is probably what I'd do, despite the advice we are given over here!

So IMHO there isn't one right answer. However I do agree that dealers shouldn't tell people not to use it - they are not trained instructors!

That's the most sensibly thing that's been said in this thread.

This is probably the best response to the OP yet!!

I've had to use mine twice on the Harley doing 80 mph on the 101 heading for stopped traffic, for some reason the FI would not drop rpm's it reset after turning back on the bike the other time was on 405N by LAX samething happened. I told HD they said we never heard of such problem.

Well there you have it! Three pages of what people do and the reasons behind it. examine the arguments and pick the procedure that works for you.

I do think that there does exist a "best practice" here but given that the experts in different countries have reached different conclusions the difference must be smaller than the noise of the experiments.

Like the killswitch?

If you can't remember where the ""Kill switch or key"" location is, then you should not ride a scooter for your own safety and others on the road that goes for the Horn too.

Do you really find that having the kill switch at your right hand thumb position (on my LX150) to be inconvenient?

I agree with TrafficJammer's report that the horn button is poorly placed. Having to reach downwards with the left hand to press the horn means that I cannot cover the rear brakes while applying the horn. I'd like to be able to do both at the same time!

Eagerly awaiting the new LX brake levers being designed by oopsclunkthud!

Actually,
I do look for opportunities to give folks a friendly "toot, toot", just for that reason
(and I rarely use my horn otherwise)

OH ... OK, I'll sell my scooters now and get off the road.

Sorry to be unclear.

What I meant is that, imho, the kill switch is in basically the same place as the horn, but on the opposite side. So I was finding it odd (i.e. inconsistent) that people were praising the placement of the kill switch (saying it's so easy to get to, even with one's hands on the brakes), but then saying that the horn is difficult to get to.

Personally, I find the horn easy to reach while applying the brakes (but I've prolly got big hands), and the kill switch is easy to reach too (even though I never use it).

The horn on the LX models is not basically where the kill switch is located but on the opposite side. It is at the very bottom of the headset and set back ... almost as though it were an afterthought. I cannot reach it easily and always end up fumbling to find it. Personally, I think it is very poorly placed.

I have to remove my hand from the handle, fumble for it and then press it. Basically, it is unused for that reason. Even if I had muscle memory ... which I don't ... I can't reach it without taking my hand off the brake. Perhaps if I had thumbs like an orangutan ...

I know I make people mad, so I'll try to not be confrontational.

I ride (and raced very successfully) Road bicycles, Track bicycles, Mountain and Cyclocross bikes.

I ride (and raced not successfully, but competently) motorcycles with left foot shifters.

I've ridden motorcycles with right foot shifters.

I ride an auto scooter.

I drive cars with manuals and autos.

I've driven trucks with various gearboxes, split-shifters, multi-speed axles, airbrakes, compression brakes.

All for many many many miles, all have very different control layouts.

All safely, competently. If I need "muscle memory" to confront emergencies then I would have been seriously screwed many times. But I did the right thing, have a very good safety record, and lived through some real tough circumstances.

Just sayin,.

P.

PS--I am not smarter than most, so I'm not saying it's me.

Oh NO! My guilty secret is out

Now, give me all of your bananas!

KEY

I use the switch daily as per the MSF and it's become habit. It has helped a few occasions that I have the instinct to use the switch on other bikes when they went down and their riders were too dazed to do it themselves. Plus, I am always getting into my pet carrier to grab/stow stuff, so I haven't forgotten the key yet. I agree that it's probably something more appropriate to regular motorcycles, but if you ride both, and it doesn't harm anything then why not.

Your exempt from this one, you live outside USA, and don't have same rules. Hell If I lived where you do I ride in flip flops to the beach and sing a Vespa Songs Everyday.

Jim has been one up-ped.

I don't dial 9-1-1 every time I pick up the phone....to make sure I know how to....or that I'm familiar with the procedure or where the buttons are located..... in case of an emergency.
I learned about it and I dial it if/when needed.

I use my kill switch only in an emergency. I've used it only to test that it works and the ONE time I needed it which was an emergency. I had no hesitation or confusion on where it was. It was an instant reaction and it served it's purpose well.

and I was not taught to use it every time in the MSF class in California back in the 90's. I was taught to use it only in emergencies.

I'm with Jimc on this one. Agree to disagree.

Times change. They definitely teach you to use your kill switch every single time nowadays.

Okay, to sum up this thread: People seem to believe that the proper use of the kill switch is limited only to what they were taught when they first started riding, and that its proper use can never change or be anything other than what they were first taught. It doesn't seem to matter if that original lesson is outdated, or even delivered by some dopey salesguy whose motivations were suspect, at best. Nobody will ever switch sides, or be persuaded from their original starting position.

Thus closes another sad chapter in riding history.

Let's move on now.

+1 As I said on an earlier post on this thread my first reaction in my "emergency" was to think KEY but in the split second I realized it was not an option I thought "Kill Switch" I am thinking mostly because I view the kill switch as a saftey mechanism like a fire extinguisher. But by all means do what you need to do and if it is using the kill switch to make it "memory" then you absolutely should.

Thanks for all the replies, Made interesting reading.

Cheers!

Dave

I am prone to go by the owner's manual which says to use the key.

With the "muscle memory" line of thinking, why do they have emergency exits labeled as such with a sign that usually says "Emergency Use Only?" Why aren't fire exits allowed to be used for normal egress from a building? Why do they use red paint and lighted signs to indicate Emergency Exit? Wouldn't it be safer to just use those doors as a matter of routine? Wouldn't it be safer to use those doors all the time, in fact, label all the doors Emergency Exit. Yeah, that would work. Nobody would have to search for an exit in an emergency. It would be part of their routine.

Yes there are times when mashing a switch might be quicker or easier to do, but I don't believe in the "must do this" method when there is a reasonable choice.

Compare it to a kitchen appliance that is turned on with a switch but then a safety adviser says it must be turned off by yanking the cord out of the socket and then turning off the switch, because in an emergency, you might not find the switch and you need to build muscle memory.

I once had to buy a new battery after having forgotten to also turn the key. I routinely leave my my key in the bike at home in a locked garage or at work in a private access (guarded) garage where they might have to move it. I haven't used the kill switch since.

I use the Kill switch nearly every time. This way I do not need to look down for the keys.

As to others, I have seen some very odd key locations as seen here and during my visit to the M/C show this weekend. The Vulcan has it's key hole at the top of the forks. I am not even sure you can reach them while seated on the bike. Some of the Harleys were just as different.

Ever do a fire drill? Or any other kind of drill? What do suppose the point of the drill was?

Or have you ever done weaving through cones, or swerve stops, or any of the other exercises they do at MSF? What do you suppose the point of those exercises were?

How about baseball? Ever get in a batting cage and hit a bunch of balls to improve your skills?

I can come up with lots of examples of practice makes perfect. The best that the dont-use-the-kill-switch side can come up with are:
- You'll wear out the switch (provably false)
- You'll leave your keys in the ignition (if you don't also lock the steering column)
- My dealer told me not to (so he doesn't have to answer phone calls from people who can't figure out how to turn it back on again)

So I've given some compelling reasons to use it, and gotten some fairly vague (but nonetheless adamant) responses for why you shouldn't use it, which I feel (obvious bias here) are fairly poorly reasoned. In the spirit of debate, I'd like someone to answer the question I alluded to earlier: Why do we ever do practice drills for anything?

Further, if you're going to tell people not to do something which has some actual thoughtful reason behind it, then I want to hear something more compelling than "I was taught to do it that way" or "I don't need to, so nobody else should need to either".

I never use it. I use the key instead.

I use one or the other, but never both simultaneously

One of my scooters doesn't come equipped with an ignition key, so if I want to turn the bike off, it's either kill switch, pull the spark plug, or turn off the gas and wait for it to stop running.

Brendan

I put my Vespa on my center stand, dismount, pull out my spare key from my pocket, unlock and open the seat, lift out the pet carrier, and yank the ht cable off the plug cap with my bare hands. I'm on my 9th life, but it works for me

Seriously though, my opinion is that there is a POSSIBLE safety benefit for practicing the use of the kill switch, while there is none for refusing to use the kill switch. Based on that, you gotta figure "why not do it"

That said, I very rarely use it on my ET, while always on the P, because the ET kill switch wore out on me after doing it several times when I first acquired the scoot. Probably just a dud switch I got, but I don't want to wear out another one I might REALLY want to use someday. The P, on the other hand, has weaker antitheft features, so I use it for both the experience and to enhance the "what the hell, how do you start and ride this thing" factor to deter petty thieves. The switch is almost in the same place on the P, so I still get my practice

I can honestly say I've never used, and confidently say I'll never use the kill switch on mine.
In fairness, it doesn't have one...

Nope. Never.

If nothing else, this topic has hopefully got people thinking *why* they do things a certain way.

Just because that's how you were told to do it, or because it makes logical sense?

The first (on this subject) depends on where in the world you are, and whether the instructors are looking at you and your bike, or assume 'for most people, for most bikes'.

The second has to be Rider Choice, made hopefully from informed opinion, and there are plenty of good informed opinions on both sides of the fence on this one.

I don't think there's a right or wrong on this one, just diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks and their circumstances.

about the same and can;t believe that people get dogmatic about which way someone turns off their scooter.
There are worse things, like my favorite pet peeve: People that ride slowly in the middle of the lane in group rides . staggered lines people or at least side to side.