Modern Vespa

Tortola is rife with twisties, steep inclines and switchbacks. Our road "engineering" is dubious at best. Many switchbacks are so severe that you will often face a 15' to 20' drop in the space of about 30'. Photos don't really give you the full impact when it comes to road pitch and incline, but the photo below (with red line indicating pitch) should give you some idea of what we are dealing with. Some are better ... some are worse.

This was the only photo I could find on the internet and it does not demonstrate particularly well how severe the pitch is. This corner is not too from my house. We drive on the left, so this particular switchback is a pain in the ass. The road is relatively narrow on the lower part of the road leading uphill (where the arrow is pointing) and cars tend to cut the corner as they ascend the hill. To be completely safe coming around the switchback, going downhill; I have to brake on the turn, hug the inside edge of the corner (particularly if there happens to be a car coming uphill) and take it very slowly around the corner. The red line indicates the pitch of my scooter going downhill.

I generally use the rear brake and pump it as needed while descending to maintain a slow enough speed through the turn ... but I have never figured out a way to attack any of the downhill switchbacks without using the brake while in the turn itself.

So here is my question to the more experienced riders out there familiar with switchbacks: How would you take such a turn? If you are never supposed to brake while cornering, how can I take these switchbacks safely without braking while cornering?

I'll try to get some better photos at some point.

Sounds like you have more practice than most of us
and have developed the technique to do it safely

However, if that turn were near me,
I'd carry a whisk broom to keep it free of sand
(and walk it, if it was wet)

Speaking from a bicyclist's perspective (as I have yet to do any super tight switchbacks on my scooter), I would say that sometimes yes, you have to brake through a corner... Obviously using mostly your rear brake while doing so.

Set-up into the turn is critical as well so try to position yourself as best as possible to enter the turn without having to make radical adjustments while in it.

Also, try sitting a little further back on your seat in a turn like this. I know it works on a bike, not sure about a scooter though...

Looks scary and fun at the same time!

Good Luck,

Desi B.

Wow, that is something! I would imagine that there is a lot of debris at the sides of those streets and pebbles and sand that would make riding near the edge treacherous. I think using the rear brake would be unavoidable on those turns with that much of a pitch especially given the danger of cars coming in the opposite direction and cutting into your path. I don't think you could really take it faster without using any brake and not risk going wide and into the path of a car. However, given my lack of experience with roads such as those, I'd defer to someone with much more experience.

On a corner like that, I'd probably be using some (rear) brake whilst going round. But if I'd done it well, I'd have taken off my speed before the corner and would only be using the brake to stop the bike accelerating due to gravity as it goes round the corner.

(I'd also be quite a lot further out in the middle of the road, so that I could see around the corner. I wouldn't hug the inside of the bend)

That type of corner isn't uncommon in mountainous areas of Europe.

I may be misguided but from what I was taught on a bend like that, going down hill I would get out on the right side of the road to see around it better

Benelli and 558,

Your concerns are legitimate, but it sounds like from her original post that the issue is just as much one of oncoming traffic cutting into the corners which make it particularly difficult to properly set oneself up for the turn... No easy answers for sure!

I agree that having your speed set before the turn so you only have to use minimal braking while in it is a good idea.

Desi B.

Well, since we drive on the left, riding on the right hand side of the road could be very hazardous to one's health! ... Did I mention that cage drivers tend to cut the corner because the road is very narrow coming up to the switchback on the way up the hill?

Tourists are constantly causing accidents at this particular corner by swinging wide (coming downhill) and out into the path of oncoming cars.

Once in the turn, the road widens sufficiently ... but coming up to the turn (from downhill) is a bit of a squeaker, making it difficult to actually use the width of the road properly as they can't set up their turn properly.

Since they drive on the left on Tortola, you would move towards the outer side of your lane to increase your visibility around the corner. The difficulty is the narrow and sharp turn. A vehicle coming up the hill will likely try to cut the corner, potentially into your lane.

I'm not sure that I could manage that turn in a fluid motion. I'd likely approach it from the outside, decelerating as I enter the turn, until I reach the apex, and had rubbed off much of my speed. Then I'd angle sharply towards the middle of my lane as I exit, while setting up for the next. A lot of braking, turning, braking, turning ....

Visibility coming downhill on this particular switchback really isn't that bad. You can see from where the telephone pole is if there are any vehicles coming. Other switchbacks are completely blind as visibility is blocked by dense scrub brush and trees. Also, most wide "jitney type" passenger vehicles will honk their horns warning drivers of their approach.

Many a bend like that in the Surrey lanes.

IPSGA:
Information
Position
Speed
(Gear)
Acceleration

I'd:

Have a good look at what hints I could get from the surroundings as to the layout around the corner, whether any vehicles could be seen or heard etc.

Be far over to the right before the bend, ready to move in as soon as there was any hint of an oncoming vehicle - I'd see them before they saw me.

Be slow enough to get around the corner with some in hand, and certainly slow enough so I could stop in half the distance I could see clearly ahead.

Use the rear brake before the turn started in order to control speed, maybe with a hint of throttle to keep the clutch engaged - on a geared bike I'd have dropped into 2nd - and keep the rear brake on/covered all the way round.

As I went round the corner, move back towards the left side, so that on exit I'd be in the left quarter of the road and ready to accelerate towards what would probably be another sharp bend to the right.

+1

I did consider riding on the left, and the cars coming. Jim just put my point better than I did.
Was told to consider a single track road (even if this isn't single track it is narrow) as all mine and use the width to gain visibility round corners.

Great point about using the rear brake and throttle JimC. That would certainly give you the most control going down that switchback just as you'd want to do in any slow speed manoeuvre.

This is where I am a complete chicken. I have seen too many accidents at that switchback to dare go to the far right side of the lane. It is a pretty severe corner and oncoming vehicles accelerate to the point of spinning their wheels in the middle of cornering. I should clarify that I only hug the left part of the lane once I am fully into the turn and heading downhill. The pitch of the road at the top of the turn forces you into the middle of the lane. Any further out than the middle ... and I start to get "ascared" as my nephew says. I really want to see you ride some day Jim! I've never had the guts to use any throttle on that hill at all. You get up to 30 or 40 mph in no time by sheer momentum by the time you reach the next switchback. I'll give it a try though one day when I know I have the road to myself ... without any oncoming traffic. Yup, there are 13 switchbacks on that part of the hill and on the right hand turns (going downhill) I stay well to the left side of the lane until I can see oncoming traffic and be sure I am clear of anyone taking wide turns. The left hand corners (going uphill) are a real bitch as the inclines are ridiculously steep ... almost a 60 degree incline in some cases. Just about everyone swings way wide going uphill on left turns and cuts the corners on right turns. This very bad habit makes for many very close calls and all too frequent collisions.

This is going to sound strange but perhaps there is an alternative route you can take...There have been discussions on avoiding intersections where you have to make a left hand turn...But if you have to take that road then counter-steering techniques could also help as you enter keeping your head up rather than look down which can lead to problems...

Good luck!

Gianni

Liane-

With similar switchbacks here and on Naxos, we learned early on that you cannot consider the turn as if it were level ground, which the rider's instinct want to do. In short, you can't take a descending, tight, downhill switchback at the speed and throttle technique appropriate for a level, tight turn.

First of all gravity is adding a major additional accelerating force to contend with, and braking is needed to control the scooter's speed throughout the maneuver, particularly with an automatic. Gravity is also applying force at a different set of lateral angles than during a turn on level ground. Second, drivers coming uphill are not using their brakes, but their accelerator to manage speed through the turn, so even independent of the laws of physics involved, it is the downhill rider that has the better chance of reacting quickly if speed changes are necessary to avoid a collision. Third, it is imperative to stay to the inner half of your lane in a turn like this, as an inexperienced, lazy or inconsiderate driver cannot be trusted to remain in his/her lane on tight turns of this type.

We have simply learned to deal with switchbacks like this as slow speed maneuvering, not normal curves. Preparation begins earlier than in a level turn as you transition into slow speed maneuvering mode. The return to normal riding speed/mode is done almost at the end of the turning maneuver, rather while in the turn. Thus, you retain control and position more precisely than otherwise. A significant element of the reason for this is the potential for an oncoming car, who's position and ability to avoid you is outside your control. A tight switchback is the last place to assume an oncoming driver will or can maintain lane position.

Uphill on these switchbacks is similar, but more is in consideration of any oncoming car. Application of power and acceleration can take place earlier in the turn, but you still want to enter the turn with a great degree of lane certainty and control than on level ground. Again, gravity is not working fully on your side in these turns, and definitely not in the same vector directions as on level ground.

Yup. Slow and tight, and no safe way around it.

Al

... thanks Gianni, but avoiding switchbacks on Tortola would basically mean not riding at all! Your point about not looking down is well taken. Hard to do as you want to be sure to avoid stray rocks, sand and gravel which are consistently present on our roads. I find my eyes bounce up and down as I ride ... making sure the road is clear ahead while managing to miss any pot holes and other obstacles along the way as well.

light throttle going down a hill helps keep the clutch engaged and works to dampen the speed

compressive braking on twist and go scooters

Absolutely - you don't want to be coasting in neutral when above walking pace.

Thanks Al ... slow and tight is the only way I have been able to manage the switch backs. I just wondered if there was something I was doing wrong and how to improve upon my technique without using the brake while actually in the process of turning. Gravity is an amazing force and I just couldn't figure a way around making this kind of turn without using the brake while in the process of turning.

Drivers on Tortola are notoriously crazy! Trusting any one of them to drive carefully and with due care and consideration for others at a critical juncture like a switchback ... would be the very last thing I would do. Literally!

Of course one has to approach these types of turns very slowly and very carefully ... common sense dictates as much. However, I thought perhaps there might be some "mystical" rider's technique I was unaware of that they don't teach in the MSF classes. I guess not.

Excellent info Michael and Jim ... I will definitely do that from now on. I'll just have to get used to it and stop being such a wuss!

Given the amount of rain and number of similar turns you'd be a walker and not a scoot rider on Tortola.