Modern Vespa

Opinions sought. Good or bad, or in need of an upgrade?

Can't remember if the GTS300 comes with braided hoses - if not, that's the cheapest upgrade you can do. Using decent EBC pads helps as well.

I'd like to ride another 300 and see if there is a difference between it - brake wise and the GT200.

Possible ?

Bill, if you feel like it, you can take mine for a sprint on Saturday.

I cannot feel a discernible different in brake feel or performance between the GT 200 and GTS 300.

Benny, do you think they are good brakes? I've come from an LX 125 with a disc and drum that had all the stopping power of a wet noodle.

I have nothing to compare it to in the Vespa range. But other similar powered scooters seem to have better brakes than the 300.

Sounds interesting. I think we are meeting up with Manfetti in London with Jim but if I can work something out I will.

I'll keep you updated.

Thanks for the offer.

Bill X

Did brakes change from the 200-300 line?
was ABS added to the 300 ?
I know the brakes on my 250 seem to have very good stopping power and the weight of the 200-300cc GT/GTS line up is about the same also power band is about the same. you my try some


here is some info

NOT ALL BRAKES PADS ARE CREATED EQUAL

Some technical information can help you understand the differences between the kinds available on the market. There are three types of friction material commonly used for motorcycle brakes: sintered metal, ceramic, and Carbon-Kevlar.
Sintered-metallic brake pads, which have a high metal content, are typically hard and abrasive to the rotor surface while offering moderate stopping power and mechanical strength. Service life tends to be significantly lower while they also tend to run more dirty and noisy than other types of friction material. They are inexpensive to manufacture and are the cheapest pads on the market.
Ceramic brake pads usually have a high copper content and are sintered as well. While ceramic pads generally offer a slightly longer service life and run cleaner than sintered-metallic pads, they offer only moderate stopping power.
Carbon-Kevlar pads, often referred to as organic pads, usually have a small percentage of iron or nonferrous metal and are softer than other friction materials. Carbon-Kevlar pads typically run clean and quiet, and offer good stopping power. They have an extremely long service life and are not abrasive to the rotor because they generate less heat than other friction materials.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/motorcycle_brake/organic_brake_pads/index.shtml

Kate, I have little to compare to but I haven't even been disappointed in the performance of the GTS Super's brakes. The few other scooters I've ridden for short bits never had better brakes, the exception to that would be the Yamaha T-Max, those brakes were grabby and seemed very powerful, more so than the GTS'. However, the T-Max needs stronger brakes than the slower and lighter Super.

Yeah, but my previous ride was an LX - I haven't had the daily comparison as a commuter yet. I know the 300 is better than that...

For instance the ABS of the Honda is better - I'd expect that, but then even Honda brakes on the lower end scooters are very good.

Okay, before everyone mugs me, they do work, and there's nothing wrong with them per se, but riding other scooter brands I begin to wonder a little...

New pads is no bad idea.

The best thing about the GTS scooter (For Me) is that I can't get any lock-up on the front or rear wheels but I'm still unsure if the GTS Line has ABS on it. I think what will take time is you are riding a scooter that gained 100 stones or Lbs from the LX so what your feeling is extra weight of the GTS

GTS00 has the same brakes as every other GT, they are pretty good brakes which have excelent feed-back and a nice progressive feel. They won't work as well after they have generated a lot of brake dust (unless you clean them.)

i just wish the brakes were less noisy, gets on my tits by the end of the day !!

There is ABS but only in Europe.

Really good brakes can be a problem on a light scooter - one day you'll be cruising along on a wet day, something jumps out at you/gives you a fright, you grab the brakes instinctively and you're sliding down the road on your arse !! happened to me once, but i was really stoned and a bit drunk/sleepy.

Having ridden Kymco 250 scooters, I would love the Vespa to be that good.
I put on a Malossi front pad set, and they are only a tad better. Next I will try the set that I got from Scooters West (Elig?).

Have you tried giving more pull on the Brake Levers. ?

Basically, this question was prompted by doing an emergency stop today from 35 mph, and the front was great, the back was not, Yes it stopped but not that well. Afterwards I just thought about a crappy Honda that was better and cost half what the Super did.

New pads please, and perhaps new trousers.

Instinctively in extremis you're doing all your braking with the front - the back has almost no grip at all. The trick is to try to keep the ratio about 70:30, but this takes practice!

Methinks we need a DSSC machine control day.

Well perhaps that explains it - an interesting sensation. It would be a good idea to understand the theory behind what I'm doing. The back end indeed definitely had less grip and that was what threw me. It's not the first time I've had to a proper emergency stop but it was the first time it felt er, uncertain over the back.

Clueless john who was about to take me out looked rather scared. I could have damaged his car, after all.

One good summary of braking:
http://www.motorcycle-training-forum.com/ltopic74-147.html

Thanks Jim - that's very useful.

I've never been overly impressed with the brakes on any Piaggio product I've ridden. They have been OK but nothing to write home about. I would love to give the GTS Brembo upgrade that Jettin' sells a try. But as JimC said braided lines and some good pads should make a discernible difference.

Dave

I like the brakes on my 300. They are firm, and give the feel of good grip and control. I of course don't have anti-lock breaks, but have absolutely no compaints. One way to get the feel of inceased front break,and weak rear break is to find a steep hill, and try different front and rear break comb's. When you are going down hill, most of the traction is on the front, similar to hitting the front break hard on the flat run.

I'm pretty sure the brake lines on my 300 are braided. If it wasn't down the street torn apart in my parents garage I'd go take a look.

I thought the brakes were weak until 2 weeks ago in Florida when some deuchebag pulled out in front of me forcing me into a full lock-up. I rode and managed to keep the bike upright with both wheels locked for about 15 feet. Good times.

Man. I can lock the brakes on a GT/GTS easy. Including the front. Spent some time practicing how to control a locked front a while back. Kind of like riding a pogo stick at 35 mph. Fun.

Anyway they're fine. You don't need to get a Brembo or anything. Jim put it well. Most braking power in those situations comes from the front anyway. Losing then regaining rear wheel traction especially in a hard braking scenario can equal high side anyway so be careful with that rear (the brake not your bum. Well, both.)

it's all good.

Actually, just a bit more.

Primary function of your rear should be for controlling speed, not stopping. It's fine grain control, so if you feel yourself a touch hot, scrub off a touch with slight pressure on the rear.

Word to the wise though - I find the rear can get hot real easy while riding aggressively. Be mindful of being over reliant. Nothing like grabbing a fist full of brake and getting no response.

Actually, I can speak from first hand experience that this can happen to both the front and rear brakes, if you ride aggressively for long enough, particularly on twisty, hilly roads. The stock brakes are fine for normal everyday commuting, but the larger caliper in the Brembo upgrade kit uses pads with a larger surface area, which also make use of the full width of the disk, providing a lot more grab while generating less heat. I haven't installed one on either of my bikes yet, but I plan to soon.

hi if you want better brakes on your 300 or 200 or 250 vespa try jettin brembo brakes http://www.jettin.com/JettinBrembo.htm they are great and stop on a dime i modified my lx 150 to fit these brakes they are the best this is my conversion on a lx GT/GTS front wheel swap on LX (Post 798833)

yeah we both boiled our brakes that day - I remember us both trying to figure it out in Lee Vining.

I had the same type of scenario recently, twice in 3 days! I was under the assumption it was something to do with the rear brake and or tyre. But after having a chat to people who know more than me, I came to the conclusion that it was me appyling more rear brake than I thought I actually was (because of the squeaky bum nature of the emergency stop).
I do however have a suspicion that the pirellis don't grip as well when it's cold. Both of the situations that I experienced were 5 minutes into the ride on a cold day. (one on the way to work and the other on the way home). I am having my back tyre replaced next week, it is borderline and I don't fancy taking any chances.

The brakes on the GTS 250 are noticeably worse than on the X9 250 (but that has double disks on the front).

I am probably due a new tyre, new pad and perhaps some new finesse with the brakes, but BB's comment that similarly priced Piaggio has dual discs is what I wanted to know about. I know we love our Vespas but I was chatting to my own dealer and he said that he thought the brakes weren't what they could be, given the price point of the GTS.

Oh well, I'll borrow the SH 300 and stop in a nanosecond. The brakes on that really are the business.