Modern Vespa

I bought my MP3 in september this year, I haven´t had any problems with it yet but I keep reading about members that have different problems with their MP3,s. I know that there is no such thing as a problem free scooter but Im kind of curious.

Now my question to the members that have owned different kinds of scooters. Do you feel that you have more or less technical/mechanical problems with your MP3 compared to other scooters you have owned?

Now I'm one of those who are not impressed by the QA work done at Piaggio (if any) and the fact they use cheap components on an expensive machine, but I think this forum gives a skewed impression of the failure rate. As has been mentioned many times, people do no post "no problems here".

I have never owned any other scooter so cannot answer your question directly.

I've owned 4 scooters and one motorcycle. Two of the scooters were/are MP3's (a 2007 MP3-250 and a 2009 MP3-500). I've never had any problems with any of them that was the fault of the scooter.

You haven't owned a motorcycle either have you? Same issue.

Wayne B

I've owned 9 scooters over the last 25 years or so. All bar the first have been Piaggios. The Fuoco (MP3 500) has been the most reliable, in that it's been the only one that hasn't had to be recovered to a dealer at some point because of a 'show-stopper' problem. A couple of near-misses though, that needed my ministrations at the road-side - a coolant leak and a melted 'hidden fuse'.

What's the same issue? The fact forums give a skewed perspective? Does not matter what type of vehicle you have, people use forums to ask questions. And if you are having problems you are almost guaranteed the person will look/ask online for an answer. Some years ago I bought a Honda S2000 when they were pretty new. This was also new technology that was pushing the boundary (IIRC, it had the most powerful naturally aspirated engine per liter at that time). There were lots of concerns online at the reliability but it was your typical bomb proof, run forever Honda. Lesson learned. Forums give a skewed perspective.

I thought Wayne was referring to "cheap components on an expensive machine."

I have a MP3 250 with 1800 miles. It has been serviced once and has not had any problems. It starts without hesitation and accelerates and rides smoothly. Prior, I had a BV 250 that was also smooth and reliable. I hope this post doesn't jinx me . . .

Sounds reassuring. Im happy to hear that i haven bought a 200 kilos of problems just waiting to happen

Even with the tire/steering bearing issue that I've had... I LOVE the MP3. It has been very reliable and hasn't kept me from riding just yet. I consider it low maintenance and a superb ride. Doesn't eat oil, doesn't break down, etc.

you have not read too many of my posts then. I have stated many times that I have no issues or problems with my 500. I have owned it since new Apr 08.

Okay then, not many people post "no problem here" messages. And those that do are certainly drowned out by the steering notch/kill switch/coolant leak/won't start/strange beep posts. Just trying to point out it's the nature of a forum like this to see those messages and not something to worry over much about.

The only problem I have had is trying to get looky-loos from the front of me so I can continue my ride.

And the fact that the gazillion Honda dealers in the US do not carry basic maintenance parts for the MP3, such as oil and filters. How about it, Honda? You might find a few trades in the deal!

Garry I don't understand your logic here. Would a ford dealer carry parts for a dodge, chevy,nissan,bmw or something else. NO WAY. why would they. So why should a honda dealer carry parts and supplies for a piaggio product unless they we a dealer for that line also.

OtD,

Me thinks it is me sarcasm that you do not understand!

Desperately needed:

A Sarcasm Font

I have never owned any other scooter other than the MP3 500. Risking getting a few folks upset, I need to make some comments. My level of expectations for an almost $10,000 scooter/machine is perhaps higher than most folks and maybe I need to recalibrate. When I spend lots of money for high end vehicles, motorcycles, racing cars, sport cars, lawn mowers, any motorized equipment, or whatever.......I expect HIGH quality in both parts and mechanics. I consider spending almost $10,000 high end for a "scooter type" vehicle. So far I have read of the following ----

rusted screws
water pump failures (I had and read of others)
holes in hoses
misalignment of plastic parts
serious steering notch issue $$$
hydraulic lock failure (I had and read of others)
tilt lock electrics going awry
warning lights going awry
battery issues
poor electrical connections
corrosion of connections
leaking clamps (areas)
unknown electrical failures
cold weather issues
gasket failures
fuses blowing
won't start
latch problems
service manual poorly defined (hidden fuse)
lack of communications from/Piaggio and dealers
no communication from Piaggio to dealers
same designed engineering for 3 different weight machines
failure on fitness for use (first post on this website)
etc...............

I am sure I missed some. I expected to see/hear far fewer issues than what I have already seen and heard of on both sides of the Atlantic. I am just doing a reality check for myself here.

And then why do we think the French and Italian Club MP3's are creating petitions for correction? Not just because. Piaggio has not sold many MP3's in the USA. I hope they do but will need to boost their quality and mfg quality performance lots in my opinion. They have a great opportunity in the USA. Hope they take advantage of it.

I am a total supporter of Piaggio MP3's. I would never give it up. It is by far the best "fun" and "ease" and "safety" factor I have ever driven. The BEST. But, reality tells me that Piaggio needs to improve or they will fail when other makers jump into the fray of 3 wheel types.

PS: I now await my "potential steering notch issue" (which hopefully I will not have) but also/still plan to get ahead of it before then with jimc's very helpful comments).

First let me say that I always enjoy riding my MP3 even when its 6.30am on a dark wet workday morning. I really appreciate those two front wheels when its pitch black and I come round a bend on one of the country lanes and find a huge patch of mud or shiny leaves on the road - oh yes and being able to brake while leaned over in a corner (which we shouldn't be able to do).

It hasn't all been without issues .... battery replaced .... headlight bulb gone .... steering head bearings replaced (under warranty) .... new belt and rollers .... throttle cable snapped (that kept me off the road for 3 weeks).

Perhaps others would state their mileage so we can compare reliability ?

To sum up my MP3 hasn't been cheap to buy or run compared to previous Hondas I have owned BUT in two years and 11,000 miles it has given me lots of fun and I am glad I bought it

Thanks for your comments dirbingle. Sometimes I think I am all alone out there trying to suggest that Piaggio NEEDS to get much better. I also enjoy the MP3 lots and would not give it up for anything.

TJC,

It's Italian and you expected a trouble free vehicle?

Wayne B

Every Piaggio bike I've ever owned has had steering bearing problems at some stage - and read other maxi-scooter marque's forums, those do too.

Normally steering bearings are simple to change at home, no big deal. The problem for the MP3 with steering bearings is that there are two of them, the hydraulics and the speed sensor wires run through the stems and fittings, and have to be fettled as well. Add to that the over-tight factory settings - and yes that is a legitimate complaint.

All the rest are things that happen to every other bike on the market. Fork seals, plastic tabs breaking, battery issues, starter solenoid, fork seals, brake/throttle/choke cables, stator/generator/regulator, hose clamps, wheel bearings (not yet seen on the MP3 AFAIK), exhaust collars, electronic hissy-fits, master cylinders, calipers frozen up, you name it. All stuff that can in the main be diagnosed and fixed by the owner.

Perhaps MP3 owners are a different demographic that expect things to be more perfect, and not to have to get their hands dirty or to learn how their bikes work.

I'm just a newbie to the forum, but I've had my 250 for just over two years. This is my first scooter, so I cannot attest to its reliability over others but after 18,000 miles I'm pleasantly surprised with the low occurrence of issues on such a complicated rig. In fact, I've just experienced my very first problem, a broken wire at the speed sensor (thanks to the forum I figured out what it was in a matter of minutes) which is kinda small potatoes (although my dealer says that it may take up to a couple of months to get the part from Italy ).
And I don't baby her, either. She's a daily driver, stop and go, sits out in the elements, no garage, get's driven in 120 degree heat in the summer and 35 degree cold in the winter (just this morning), and suffers the dust and smog of Mesa, AZ.

Yes I do Wayne, especially when I purchase a $10,000 scooter. Am not certain were you get your info about Italian quality. I have run 15 large manufacturing plants in the USA as well as one very large one in Slovakia. At least recall, I purchased about $40,000,000 worth of highly technical, heavy duty industrial equipment from Italy for the USA plants I ran. Why?......because I could not find that level of equipment in the USA nor could I find the realiablity I needed. And believe me I tried. I also did the same from a very large plant in the Slovak Republic.

When I checked last the group of USA engineers (about 150) that I also helped manage were very pleased with the quality and results.

Where do you get your facts about Italian quality? I have many Italian friends that would offer you more facts if you want.

To repeat, Italy produces many quality products. I expect that from Paiggio as do others.

jimc.....I have gotten my hands dirty understanding much equipment in my life to include this Paiggio. I now understand how this machine works and can deal with it. But, I don't agree that everyone should have to. My level of expectation is for this to be a relatively problem free machine that would need the occasionally work and "maintenance". But not to the extent that I read about. Again, this is a almost $10,000 machine (500).....I don't know about you, but that is lots of money to me for a scooter. Once the Far East/India manufacturers come on board, they will make a machine like Piaggio that will far surpass what we see now from Paiggio, unless they improve. QUALITY will sell over anything and especially if someone can come up with a 3 wheel scooter for less than $10,0000 and won't have the "expected" issues of Piaggio.

This is probably very true and I happen to fit that description. I think the MP3 attracts a lot of new riders who also happen to be older and have been driving (cars) trouble free for years. Follow the service intervals and you are unlikely to have a problem. If you do take it to a dealer and it will be fixed in a reasonable period of time. Not that I expect things to be perfect but this is what I am used to. If things are different in the motorcycle world then it is a bit of a culture shock.

I am still trying to get a feel for how Piaggio compares to other marques. I get the impression they are trying to increase sales in the US and will let anyone sell them. Standing behind and supporting their dealers seems to be another story. IIRC even your trusted and experienced dealer ditched them in frustration.

Very few of us have your knowledge and experience. Something that would be a simple fix for you would leave me stranded at the side of the road. It makes it more frustrating, not less, that the cause could be something as simple as contact switches not weatherproofed or bolts tightened to the incorrect spec. Personally I have no interest in becoming a mechanic. If riding a Piaggio means I need to then I, and I suspect many others, will look elsewhere.

For the record I love my MP3 and I'm sure it has captured a new audience for Piaggio. If they want to hold onto them they need to listen to common complaints and take steps to remedy them (and I KNOW other marques do this). I've not heard about any incremental improvements. Instead we get the LT designed to lure in car drivers without any motorcycle training.

Try buying a $100,000 Ferrari or a Lamborghini and see how problematic they will be.

Wayne B

No doubt, but I do have a neighbor that has a $300,000 Lambo (that I will never be able to afford) and he hasn't had a problem in over 4 years. But as I have tried to say....just because something is from Italy, doesn't mean that it is bad which is what you stated originally. Give me your facts Wayne. Not just supposition. I just state again Piaggio has a lot of work do before they have it down. Give me your facts Wayne. Not just a feeling.

Hmm... Italian cars...
Lancia? Rust-buckets they used to be, cured, but no market left in the UK.
Alfa Romeo? They just avoided the rust-bucket label, but still fall to bits on occasion.
Fiat? Cheap, so no-one expected too much, and boy have they improved. I believe they're not produced in Italy any more though.

You are right in some regards.... kind of like of the MG that is gone, the Jaguar that almost destroyed itself for poor quality, and other English makes that destructed themselves with bad product. Fiat has 5 auto plants in Italy making a fine product when they realized that quality was key. Aren't they in talks with buying some other car companies, one US I believer? Like all brands that go down the toilet.......it will be because of poor quality and poor sales and high prices.

However, much of their mfg OEM equipment is finding it's way all over the world. High technical and high reliability. Hope Piaggio does not go of the way that many other makes have from numerous countries including the USA.

It could happen in the US market perhaps - you'd be a better judge of that - but in Europe and the Eastern markets the build quality is seen as just as good if not better than other PTWs, and it is against those others Piaggio must be judged. Perhaps the US market doesn't have quite the same mix of competitors.

Just ask BMW owners about shaft-drive universal joints for instance, or the cost of getting the ABS fixed when it throws a wobbly, or (Honda) the show-stopping problems that can be caused by FI sensors/ flaky ECUs. Even the perceived soul-less 'best' have recurring problems that are well publicised on their user-groups.

Italian vehicles are known to have shitty wiring that doesn't like getting wet.

Wayne B

MP3 connectors (and I was told, but haven't proved, the wiring) are supplied by Bosch.

Anything mechcanical you are going to have problems some time down the road that is just the nature of the beast, i dont care if it is a million dollar air plane or a 1000 dollar scooter it is going to break down some time.

Wayne.......noticed that jimc also talked about some poorly made Italian vehicles and you seem to confirm that. Granted. However, Fiat just purchased Chrysler to save our American make from disappearing. Without the Italians thousands of USA employees lose jobs. jimc - Fiat also bought Lancia and Alfa Romeo and will combine with Chrysler. Here is a direct quote from the Auburn, Mich. meeting Fiat just had with Chrysler last month... "Company officials said that by 2014, about half of Chrysler's cars will run on Fiat platforms and about 40 percent of Chrysler engines will be based on Fiat technology. Already, Chrysler is borrowing Fiat's quality-control practices and manufacturing system, they said, and the new partners are sharing suppliers."

As far as I know the deal has gone through.........I could be wrong. I hope the deal is done as I would to see more USA jobs in the toilet.

And Fiat stated that they will pay back all the BAILOUT money to the USA by 2014. Another quote. Guess the Italians can make good stuff if they want. Vespa/Paiggio can do the same if they chose to make that name for themselves. They won't make it, if they continue to produce expensive scooters that require jimc's type of knowledge to keep them going.

And Wayne, my Lambo neighbor drives his vehicle everyday. Including the many days of torrential tropical rains in Tampa Bay. He does not treat it as a "just look at" type of car. He runs it wet or dry and no problems.

The Italians make great stuff if they want. I really have a problem with a "whatta ya expect anyway from Paiggio" since it is Italian. Not a good way to look at things.

Jim stole my list. Italian sports cars of all prices have been know to be problematic - especially with construction. I *hated* absolutely *hated* working on Fiats - I even turned down a trade with a famous painter who wanted me to rebuild his beloved Fiat. Al vehicles have achilles heels to some degree - Brits suffered with Lucas electrics for example...
BUT - I believe the original comment was made in fun and you took it too serious. I am also of the mind that someone at Piaggio should be held accountable for shoddy workmanship and piss-poor assembly. One of the deciding factors of me trading up to a 500 was that every single 400 at the dealer had amazingly bad panel assembly - one you could barely close the back hatch it had such bad alignment and there is NO adjustment! C'mon Piaggio - how hard is it to design a slotted hinge?
Jon

In fact we used to refer to the newer Jags as "Junk-wars".

IMHO the gov't should have let Chrysler go under, the quality of their products is just horrible & has been for years. 80% of their motors were out sourced as it was so they are just switching suppliers.

Wayne B

Bubbajon....you are right on. Thanks. I do take some comments too serious. For that I apologize. Guess it must be the years of training in me to only look at facts and the reality of commments vs. details. Wife tells me the same. I should be more open to opinons that deal only with the emphirical without details. I keep learning. I do care much about the great engineering behind the MP3 500. I just want them to suceed and close the loop on the rest of the "fitness for use" criteria, ie: comments on break lines we just saw on the website..........................

chryler will revert back in time to the late 70's early 80's junk again. IMO

I also agree with Wayne that the gov should have let them go under and be done with it. Yes there would be jobs lost at chrysler but guess what other manufacture would have to increase production and hire folks to do that so overall the loss of jobs would be a wash.

This is starting to be fun, do we get to brag about our cars now? Expensive cars? Boy will I have a field day with that! Nah, I liked it better when we talked about our scoots and helped each other out by offering solutions to problems we were encountering. Think maybe I'll go check my steering head or whatever the heck that is....

LL75