Modern Vespa

hi all

today i had my first accident and i'm pretty ashamed to say that it was
totally my fault. I was in a small street leading to charing x road in central
london and driving along, i felt that my bike braked without my doing, then
i looked up and realised that i'd gone into the back of a mini cab driver.

Luckily he seemed very nice and said we'd try to deal with the matter privately if it was below a certain price.

I have no idea why my mind suddenly went blank and i did this stupid move.
i'd eaten a meal with quite a lot of chilli in beforehand and felt slightly
light headed as a result. That's literally the only thing I can think of but
on telling my friend this he said if in court i stoood up and said 'sorry m'lud
i'd eaten some chilli on that occassion' i would be pretty much laughed at...

has anyone else has these lapses of concentration or suddenly taken leave of their senses?

I feel I need to apologise to everyone here for seeming like such a stupid
scooter rider but to be honest I'm the most shocked person in this situation
because I thought this would never happen to me. Lesson learned..

James

It can be dangerous to have lapses in concentration while riding or driving. Unfortunately while riding the potential for more serious bodily harm to one's self is much greater than when driving. I try my hardest not to think of too much less other than riding when I am on the scooter because I know how easy it is to lose one's concentration.

Gladly you're OK and not hurt.

Live and learn buddy... are you sure it was the Chilli and not the 1/2 dozen pints of Guiness ?

thanks for your replies..

Maybe it was the 1/2 dozen pints of chilli

Sorry to hear about your accident.

I don't know if this applies to your situation, but it might.
Even if not, it may serve as good advice to others...

It brought to mind an interesting finding from the Hurt Report:

The report found there was a period of time where the risk of an accident for experienced (2 -3 years) riders was close to or actually exceeded the risk of an accident for new riders (0 to 6 months).

I remembered this because a couple of years ago I found myself becoming so comfortable riding that I felt I was not paying as much attention as warranted. I believe I even posted about it. It was sort of like "zoning out" a bit. It was especially true of my daily commute...riding the same roads over and over. I believe that's what caused the findings in the report.

David Hough in Proficient Motorcycling wrote that it's the period when the rider has enough experience to become a bit "cocky" with their skills. That word is a bit strong I think, but I know there was a time for me when I was riding, let say, complacently.

The report shows it gets better after time and the accident risk goes down from there. It's probably a good thing to ride on edge a bit, after all.

at least your fine mate could have been worse hope there is not too much damage to your vespa

What kind of chili makes one light-headed..?

Glad no one got injured. +1 on the hurt report and the inattentiveness that creeps in after the first year or so.

And where can one acquire it?

After a couple of decades in mishap investigation, I'm sorry to say that overcoming cockiness is not automati at a certain experience levelc. Unfortunately, cockiness and/or complacency find their way into the lives of folks at all experience levels.

One great thing about safety conscious PTW riding peer groups such as MV is that they generally tend to reinforce the need to stay alert, and being alert and situationally aware is active mental work, not to be lessened as you gain experience. Zoning out is more natural than and active and comprehensive situation focus and scan.

So, I'm glad it all turned out with no serious consequences. You seem to have learned the initial lesson about letting your concentration down. Now, just keep that heightened level of awareness permanently.

Be well

Al

First, of all I do not believe the concentration laspe occured due to the chili...unless ...blood flow to stomach due to recent ingestion of food (chili)...oxygen deprivation to brain...concious thought process compromise due to lack of oxygen to brain.

Second, 1+ on the above I've found myself in same.

1. Rolling Stop that could turn into a sudden stop and lost of balance and fall (corrected). This is really important since it gives you a chance to really pick up whats on your right (U.S.) before you move out (pedestrians, bicyclist using the side walk going against traffic, skate boarders, etc.)

2. Using my eyes going into a turn versus eyes and head ... looking into turn (corrected).

Simply an issue of complacency and being lazy....

we all have moments of stupidity - i'm very glad to hear that the damage was minimal, and that you are still around to learn from your mistake.

if it's any consolation, i dropped my freshly-painted scoot on friday evening by coming to a stop at a traffic light, putting my foot down on a crisp packet, and losing my footing did the slow lay-down of the scooter ... i was lucky, and the damage was confined to a tiny scuff on the lower panel, but boy did i feel like a muppet.

I, too, have run afoul of the complacency demon. In my case it was the feeling that if it hasn't happened, it won't happen. False sense of security.

I wish I could develope a drug to cure stupidity . If I do, I GET THE FIRST DOSE !!! Glad you are "OK". We have all had our moments. Take care.

Talk to my mom who crashed her S150 a week after getting it. Luckily she laid it and herself down on soft grass and there was only the most minor damage and she wasn't hurt. I asked her what happened and she didn't know. I told her I HAD A HEART ATTACK riding in front of her. I explained to her how important it was to not have these moments as thats when you can get hurt or killed.


Glad you are ok.

thanks for all your posts..

it's really true what the guy said about 'cockiness'. lately ive become so comfortable that i almost feel i can fit through any gap and that the vehicles
in front and behind me are like ghosts that i could simply glide through.

it's been bothering me lately too and i've even told friends that i need to
be less gung ho about the whole thing. i even had a dream last night that
i had to get new parts for my bike!!

well if this isnt my subconscious giving me a slap in the face warning i don't
know what would constitute as one. i guess i've learnt to heed warnings
from myself and that complacency in any medium is a bad sign..

also i do feel today like i'm totally zoned out. how does one zone in??
i'm a bit shocked about the 'crash' and that probably has something to do
with it.

do you all think zoning out and cockiness go hand in hand or they are
seperate issues??

i was eating dan dan noodles by the way...

Chilli makes me fart.
I'm told if you hold it in the back pressure can cause a mild coma.


I prefer the Twinky defense.

If this happens again:

1. stop eating chilli

OR

2. Have yourself checked for petit mal. (Or something along those lines).

Am I over reacting?

mm, maybe a bit. in heavy traffic areas where driver speed is neither consistent nor predictable, it's surprisingly easy to look into your mirrors for half a second, only to look up and discover the the vehicle in front of you is much closer than it was a second earlier. i've come close to rear-ending people once or twice when my attention was distracted for literally a second or two. you need to be really, really alert not to come a cropper in london traffic.

Good question...I wish I could think of a good answer.

For me, I think I just got over it...not as in becoming even more complacent...but it seems my concern over the matter caused me to sharpen up and focus on attentive riding a bit more...until it became natural. I'm also thinking I just recognized the warning signs at the time because I studied Hough's book, so that's something to be thankful for.

Still, one thing I considered was finding some interesting alternative routes to my job or oft traveled roads to keep me focused.

Green chili or Red?

Seriously, effective two wheeled conveyance requires total concentration.

Rubber side down! ; )

Well I'll join you on the stupid front today because I rode through a red light because I couldn't see the amber though the slatted bit in the front of the traffic light.

And I had a pillion on the back.

Not my greatest day.

We couldn't have been far from you come to think of it.

Bill X

Sorry about your accident.

I found that you are never too old or experienced to do something stupid. I have over 60 years of bicycling and 20 years of bike racing experience yet I managed to ride into the back of a parked car.

I have ridden with groups in the past where someone did this and my response was always "How can anyone be dumb enough to ride into the back of a car?" Now I know. I had my head down and was concentrating on the climb. Fortunately I was on a bicycle and going well under 10 mph.

We just have to always concentrate on the whole situation, be aware of what's around us and keep the head up.

Could be any number of reasons; Stupidity isn't probably one of them.

Microsleep - can still happen even when you have a good nights sleep, may have been just long enough that it happened and you did not realise it.

Autopilot - the brain is inately lazy, and will run on scripts and patterns whenever it can to save doing too much work - ever driven home and wondered how you got there?

THis time it did not drop from its autopilot in time to prevent the prang.

Often happens when tired, stressed about other things. Hence most MC training courses say don't ride when pissed off, after drinking or when tired (although a microsleep can happen at any time).

Affected by chillies - I am sure there is a reasonable defence in there somewhere

Sorry to hear of the prang - as long as you and the cabbie are not injuried, thats the important thing........

Don't worry too much about M'Lud laughing at you, a good HF expert would be able to argue a reasonable defence..... I am happy to talk retainer (business class fare to the Ol' Blighty though)

ok, so guess what? tonight i started having symptoms of a cold/flu
ie. fever, muscle ache, sneezing, etc. i tend to zone out a lot on
days when i feel like i'm coming down with something.

one good lesson is don't ride when you don't feel 100%.
would you all agree with that?

the thing is there are myriad reasons for elapsed concentration or
taking your mind off what's in hand but personally i feel like i know
when i'm on the case and totally healthy. in cases such as riding
on busy or hectic roads, its better to be really safe than sorry.

i really appreciate all your kind and nice posts. this place definitely has
the feeling of a community which is something that just comes from
a feeling of goodwill and kindness. Sorry for the corny ending but
i'm just 'calling it like i see it'.

Understood. Yes - but there can be times when you 'have' to, and as long as you take great care to concentrate and take account of 'not feeling 100%' then all should be well.

Best not to if avoidable though...

when riding, I have had out of body experiences on my scooter. I am riding along on some long straight highway, the sun is shining on me I feel it;s warmth but I am not hot nor am I cold where the wind is hitting me, my gear shields me. The cars ahead appear to be parked, we are all moving at the same pace. I am not feeling hungry, thirsty or tired. The few clouds hang still as if on a painted backdrop, the engine humm is even, smooth, separate, I am comfortable in the seat, shoulders relaxed, I feel like I am in a bubble, I want to close my eyes.

Yes...

... once, on a bicycle, back in the mid 80's. Ended up running a red light and getting hit by a car, luckily at low speed, so all I ended up needing was a new set of front teeth.


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Wow, sorry to hear that but really glad you are OK. How long have you been riding? Just trying to figure out if you fit into the Hurt report demographic.

Yesterday, I saw a patch of sand stretching across the main highway. It was only about 2 feet wide but went all the way across the road. I didn't slow down thinking inertia would carry me through safely. I was wrong. My front wheel began to wobble dangerously and then the rear wheel slipped sideways. I can tell you nobody was more shocked than me! Everything was fine once the wheel stopped wobbling ... but man it scared the hell out of me as I was doing about 50 at the time.

Normally, I would slow down for things like that, but I became complacent and perhaps a little cocky. I certainly learned my lesson!

I've been riding for about 6 months now, so I wonder if I fit into the hurt report
findings.

To the person who posted that they like to be 'zoned out', I think it's quite a different definition of the term. We all find riding a bike a meditative experience
and love the feeling of the wind in our hair or our scalps for the folically challenged among us (not me, thank god ) but in those
situations our bodies feel relaxed but our minds are very alert which is what
I think gives us that special feeling. When you get slightly ill your mind zones out in a way in which you don't appreciate the meditative qualities as much and
you feel slightly like you're in a fog.

I think also this situation highlights how in the course of riding we make thousands of split second choices on one journey. It's amazing when one of
those choices goes wrong, in my case to take my mind off the job for a nano
second. it makes you totally aware of all the other choices that seem so natural and organic when everything is going well.
in my job i have to do something quite similar, that if one of the thousands or
millions of little reactions goes wrong youre faced with humiliation.

I think it's really good advice that we all have days of feeling a bit crap and
if we're just aware of that it should cover us.

one thing i find quite interesting is that when i bought my bike initially
i said that i only needed a 50cc because i wasnt interested in zipping in between cars and trying to get to places as quickly as possible. it's funny
the evolution of your needs on a scooter after some time. i think partly
my problem of late has also been overstretching the limitations of my bike.
to be honest in london, i'm quite happy to sit behind a car and occassionally
filtering, but taking on the traffic aggressively is pretty dangerous with
my bike, but i guess this should be in a different thread...sorry!!

also was just wondering, after my little scrape my front mud guard is
scuffed and has bits where it looks like a bird has gone to town poo wise
on it. here is a pic of it, could you guys tell me whether a touch up job would
do it or whether it needs replacing from a vanity point of view, not safety
wise.

Take it to a good body shop. A bit of Bondo and some paint is all that's needed!

i'd have a go with a clay bar before taking it to the body shop - you'd be surprised what a clay bar and a bit of polish can do for scuffs like that.

I've occasionally had what felt like narcolepsy after eating high-carbohydrate meals. Once, notably, was during a cross-country motorcycle trip. I had to pull off at the next exit, put the bike up on its centerstand, and take a quick nap while slouched over the handlebars. The nap helped significantly.

Meal-related narcolepsy might also be a symptom of diabetes. (It isn't in my case as far as I know, but it is one possibility.) Also, if one suffers from asthma, food allergens (sulfites or MSG) may trigger an episode resulting in mild oxygen deprivation. Finally, as noted above, inadequate or poor quality sleep can also cause this sort of thing regardless of what you eat.

-Rusty
'09 LXS 150

Good call.
I've been in the habit of making sure I don't eat a big meal before a long ride, and eating lightly when on the road. A roadside stop of for a big McMeal seems enticing after long hours in the saddle but I avoid it for the very same reason you mentioned. I'll get sleepy.

When I'm on really long trips, I carry Pop-Tarts along if I'm feeling a little hungry and they'll get me through. (Red Bull, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, always comes along too.)

No offence, Menhir but if you keep eating like that you are in big trouble, bumpin into a car is the least of your worries, Bigmacs, poptarts, engergy drinks........ have you ever heard of fruit, carrots, nuts.....water...can you still get that stuff in the States or has Coca Cola taken the orchards over and turned them into sugar plantations?

None taken.
No, I actually don't like eating like that. Gah!

Probably I should have been more clear in my post:

The Pop-Tarts and energy drinks are there for when I don't have a better alternative than being hungry or tired and a good alternative does not present itself.

I have, in fact, been lucky enough to get a nice, fresh cut ham and cheese sandwich made for me at some gas stations that had a small deli (not the micro-waveable cardboard sandwiches on shelves which we are all so familiar with) but even small roadside mini-marts can be sparse depending on where you travel.

But since I often travel on the very back roads (150cc = no interstate), fresh fruit and nuts is not always easy to find. Getting a nap is sometimes not an option if it's raining, I'm tired, and there is no known place to rest until further down the road somewhere. If I find myself tired, I would rather energy up a bit to, my words, get me through.

So the point wasn't good nutrition, it's staying awake and focused because you have to...So the Red Bull and Pop-Tarts still come along for the ride.
8)

Glad to hear you're OK on this occasion....I absolutely agree with the value of finding/using alternative routes for your daily commute -- at least a couple times a month I consciously take different roads and don't woory about how long it takes to get home....I find I enjoy the ride (and learn a bit about the city at the same time)....