Modern Vespa

Took one of these for a test drive, only 125cc but loads better than the standard catalysed two stroke - over 60mph 8)

Build quality is very good, possibly the best PX ever made

Heard some good reports about the LML, might have to have a go myself.
If they could make one with a similar power output to the GTS I could be very tempted.

Word is that they're working on fuel injected versions and a 200cc at the very least. They way the engine is crammed in now I doubt they could fit a 250 without altering the back end.

The 150cc being tested here (it will be sold as the Genuine Stella 4T) is reportedly getting up to 150MPG (US gallons, not Imperial) in city riding.

I'm very eager for these to arrive here!

Yes mpg in standard format they are claiming 60m/litre which is awesome.

The rear end on the chassis is completely removeable and they have really thought about the redesigning of this scooter.

I dont think it will ever be on the same kind of level as the GTS but, it is easier to work on, and alot cheaper to maintain.

I look upon the GTS as a disposable vehicle because there cmes a time when it is not economically viable to repair it, whereas the LML/Stella is in terms of an original Vespa, deigned to be fixed at the roadside.

Unless LML decide to lose the split rims in favour of tubeless tyres I cant see them making a production scooter capable of GTS speeds, but they are not necessarily needed.

Judging by the test 125 cc vehicle I rode, I would suggest when it has had its first service and loosed up 70mph could be achievable. If, a 200cc injected model does become available I would imagine 80mph could be possible.

All told, value for money, build quality, styling, cheap maintenance, and more nimble handling at slower speeds it scores well.

If I were a learner I would without doubt, opt for the LML over a GTS 125.

Big thumbs up from me!

i it take eddy has got one in now then 8) any idea what the cost will be mate

I have already ridden the 4 stroke LML. It was a cool bike and very weird to ride in that I was so used to riding 2 stroke shifties. Smooth power delivery and really quiet. I'm so used to the 2 stroke sound and using the engine noise to shift by. I only rode it a few blocks so I can't say how it performed at speed. The bike had to be shipped to Cali for EPA testing so we had to make sure nothing happened to it. (LML in the USA is sold by Genuine Scooter Company)

I would not mind owning one but to say it will be a better choice than anything in the GTS lineup you are sadly mistaken. I've heard rumors that the one Genuine sent to California for testing broke down but I cannot confirm that or what is was that broke.

The LML 4 stroke would be a fun bike to use as an occasional driver but for use as an every day commuter I believe it will fall short.
The motor may be a new design but the rest of the chassis and body is a 30+ year old design. I guarantee a LML will rust and poorly weather the Elements. Indian bikes are not well known for their durability in adverse elemental conditions. This is a bike that I would definitely want in a garage and not ridden in poor weather.

A couple years ago LML shut down for almost 2 years. The bikes they made before that shutdown in 2005 were much better quality then the ones built later. They changed a lot of their tooling and equipment to sub par methods to save money and modernize their facility. This changeover brought them further away from the quality Vespa P design. When I worked for Genuine we had a lot of goofy problems with the newer Stellas. The 2003-2005 Stellas were built much better and had fewer problems. Several people who worked with me loved the pre-2006 bikes.

LML sent a company representative to Genuine and I had the opportunity to speak with him for an extended period of time. He told me the 4 strokes are selling well in other parts of the world especially in Egypt and South America where they can't get enough. I guess we will have to wait and see when the 4 strokes hit our shores. People in California will be ecstatic but me, I'd rather have a 2005 Vespa PX150 any day. I wouldn't however give up my GTS for it.

I never said it would be a better choice, I said I would rather have an LML 4T 125cc than a GTS125. (not a larger capacity gts)

As far as commuting goes, i dont know if you are aware but people have been commuting on this style of scooter since 1946.

And bodywork wise, the finish and standard of the paintwork on the LML far exceeds anything Piaggio have ever produced IMO. I am not biased, I have owned loads of vespas and a GTS, and I live in the UK so I know what bad weather is all about.

My comment about the LML was a balanced comment based on 25yrs of scootering experience.




Alan, yes Eddy has one you can test ride pop up

My point remains the same. I would take any scoots in the GT(S) lineup (125, 200,250,300) ....over the LML125 or LML150.

I was told to steer well clear of a LML. What are they like? I have seen a lot of bad thing said about them

Well thats your choice, some people may have to spend their money more wisely.

It is interesting that there are folks that judge a scooter before it is really on the road and has acquired some real time, production model experience. I keep hearing that the 4T Star is "popular in Egypt and S. America". Does that mean it has been selling in these locations? If so, any feedback from retail users?

I have a 2008 Genuine Stella LML 2T. After working though some very minor problems, mostly solved by changing out a substandard plug supplied with the machine, I have been using it for my regular commute with no problems at all, and am overall impressed at about 2500 miles. I am waiting for the top end to go, which I understand has been a problem with some vintages of LML machines. But so far, she's a reliable beast.

That having been said, the 2T's that I have, including a 2005 PX, don't have the feel of my wife's LXV. But it's a taste thing. I prefer to do my daily commute with the 1970's technology.

-mat

I will take a P/PX/Stella/LML over anything in the GTS line anyday. I have ridden and wrenched on both. I feel that the GTS is too big and too heavy of a scooter for the kind of scooter-style city driving that I do. The GTS is like a cross between Vespa styling and motorcycle handling. I also feel that if aything went wring on the GTS, I'd be stuck waitng for a tow truck, instead of fixing the problem and jumping back on the road like I normally would.
I would own a GTS if I wanted a Vespa-styled highway-mile eater.
Also, I owned a 4T Bajaj Legend for a while, (it was actually my first shifty) and the 4T sounds and feel didn't throw me off at all. It was actually prety cool when I put a straight HRS pipe on it, thing sounded like a Harley!

I have to concede that whatever you normally ride, is what you probably feel most comfortable riding. It's always a shock going from my PX to my Honda 350, because the weight and handling is so different, especially if I haven't ridden one for a while. The Vespa seems light and squirrely after riding the 350, and the 350 seems heavy and clumsy after my PX.

I assume the eddy you Brits are talking about is the one who posted this video on the LML Owners UK forum:
http://pub22.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=1876829250&frmid=58&msgid=676560&cmd=show LML had an earlier 4T model that sold in a few select locations that is not the same as the new Star 4T that was at EICMA this year and that's coming here as a Stella. The earlier version was a straight port of the old 125. The new one is a whole new design and configuration.

I agree-there's been a lot of rush to judgement on this scooter before it's been tested. There's a lot of complaining about how pokey the Bajaj 4T is and so on.

I have a hard time imagining riding something the size of a GTS with a 125cc in it. No idea why someone would choose that over an LX. They want something with the same size engine, only heavier and wider?

How weak is the European GTS 125? How popular is it?

Eric and Tom - the GTS 125 engine is very different than the LX engine. For a start it is a four valve, water cooled lump that develops 15 bhp instead of 10. It performs much better than the similarly sized two valve engine in the LX. Top speed is near a real 70mph and it also accelerates much faster.

It is VERY popular as it is Learner Legal (we are restricted to 125 cc) and develops the maximum power allowed for this cc, unlike the LX. You can take the test on a GTS 125 but not on an LX 125 as the bike must be capable of achieving 62.5 mph according to manufacturer's figures, which the LX isn't.

I believe the LML 4T develops about 8bhp which is less than an LX 125. It also weighs 124kg so will be a bit slow I think.

the four stroke in a shifter bike can be a lot of fun, the chetak I had was very smooth

I loved my Bajaj Legend when I had it. If the circumstances of a well-priced Chetak/Legend and $$ in the bank ever visited me, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Also, the Bajaj 4T engines had 10hp, or so said the owner's manual. The LML 4T has 8hp?

all true, but because a gts is an auto when you take your test on it i think it means you can only ride autos.

I'm not sure about the recognized speed of the 4t but i do know that you can take your bike test on the 2t 125 and then you can ride any cc motorcycle 8)


Anyway, the gts and the lml are two completely different beasts and not really that comparable.

One is simple and made to be easily and cheaply repairable, the other is more expensive to repair if it does go wrong (but hopefully it wont!) - either way they are both designed to get you from a-b with minimum cost.

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Does anyone know if the new 4t engine is Indian or Taiwanese? I like the looks of this bike, too bad money's a bit tight now.

Definitely Indian.