Modern Vespa

Sportbike brakes are scary good. I'd be surprised if they weren't better than any scooter on the road.

I think this video demonstrates it well(albeit very quickly)...go to 1:56

Another thing i forgot to mention is my experience from Piaggio Save Riding School (Free for mp3 owners here in Greece). There were other scooters as well (2 wheelers) and they were no match for the mp3's regarding in track driving and lap timing. Even totally unexperienced mp3 riders where significantly faster from well experienced 2wheeler-scooter riders(in the end of the day)!

I don´t have a footbrake on my 250, but I have spacers and Im allowed to ride it in ny country on a car license. The swedish law doesn´t say anything about any foot brake. Im even allowed to ride ATV,s on the roads with my car license. The main issue is if there is more 46 cm between the wheels or not.

Not sure how it works in the rest of europe but I have checked this with the police and the proper authorityes before purchasing the bike.

The only M I have on my license is my name. And I'm legal in the states eyes. As it should be everywhere.

The MP3s qualities are unique and yes we have it both ways. That's why I bought it!

I disagree with this, I think you should have to have the M1 to ride the MP3, 49 out of 50 states seem to agree.

Wayne B

As I wrote previously I ride my MP3 on a car license. Most of the MP3 riders in my country only have car license, its the main reason for buying one here. Some weeks ago I spoke with my insurance company, wich is one of the biggest here. The insurance guy told me that there are almoust no accidents involving MP3,s here. I belive that says something about the safety of our three wheelers.

Having said that, I think that it´s strange that they alow us to ride the MP3 on a car license, the most sencible thing would be that you have to own a MC license to ride it. But as long as the law allows me, Im happy.

I will take a MC license in the spring, not because I have to but it´s a matter of personal safety. The sad part about this is that it will take about two months and will cost me about 2700 USD to get the license.

Wayne B

Reading this very interesting thread has piqued my curiosity:

1) Why don't all of you who are not licensed to ride motorcycles simply get your endorsement? Is it that difficult or is it based on your unwillingness to do so - sort of like thumbing your nose at the law? I cant' help feeling it would make your lives easier if you did so and then you could move on to enjoying your ride without fear of citations. Not criticizing you, just wondering why.

2) Bubbajon: I'm glad you and your wife avoided an accident, kudos for your ability to control your ride. Having decent brakes is only a small part of that whole process which I know you appreciate. I haven't had to test Red Dog's stoppers under duress yet but I'm very confident they're more than adequate. Same with the handling, no worries in that department. Regarding your statment about the brakes possibly being as good or better than anything else...? I'm not so sure I'd agree with that one.

BTW, I've often veered off to one side of the road when an accident has occurred or nearly so. In fact I often pull way over when traffic stops just to minimize my rearward exposure and at the same time position myself for a speedy exit should the next vehicle fail to see the situation. That may have been on the rider's mind when he observed all the fracas you encountered. A lot of riders employ that technique as a defensive move.

LL75

I will, but it quite expensive and time consumeing. I will have to save up some money and do some planning so that I have the time to take lessons. They don´t give lessons before April because the season doesn´t start until then.

Off topic:
Larry my friend, what the h*ll are you wearing on your head in your avatar?

Is it just me or is anyone else tired of the same old motorcycle or not and licensing requirements arguments? Listen - it's whatever your state requires and it's whatever you want to make of it. Just like some states allow idiots to ride with no head gear. So the hell what? Let 'em. I have enough problems taking care of myself much less worry about idiots. My favorite quote attributed to Einstein: "The difference between a genius and an idiot is that a genius has limits".

I'm not sure what that video is supposed to show. Do you think that because the MP3 can do a stoppie, it proves that the brakes are superior? There aren't many bikes on the market that can't do stoppies.

Actually this is a habit I'm trying to get rid of - this because the last two times I've taken tot the side I found bigger and badder obstructions than what was in front of me. Those damned semi's can leave some hellacious big chunks of rubber laying around! If you gotta do avoidance still better than running up the ass of 3,000 lbs of steel. One thing that's always on my mind here in Austin is there are a few places where instead of guardrails they use cable and posts on the side of the road. The thought of running into that scares the bejezus out of me. I have this mental image of a cheese slicer...

I'm totally with you on that one. There's nothing but danger on the side of the highway in these parts.

+1

Just because YOU have to get a MC license in your country, state, doesn't automatically make you wiser than those that don't. In California you can't even ride your MP3 for a MC test. You have to ride a MC of some kind. Far as I'm concerned a MP3 is so much easier to ride than a 2 wheeler, I can see why some states don't require a MC endorsement.

I guess I made that unclear, what I mean by "position myself for a speedy exit should the next vehicle fail to see the situation" is just that, I don't intend to use it as a regular driving solution to stopped vehicles. Getting out of the way quickly via the shoulder is geneally a better route than diving into the on-coming lane, PLUS that's the most likely choice of the idiot who's about to rear end you given he does anything at all. But hey, I don't teach riding or driving, I'm just sharing what I feel makes sense to me. I've done a few wheelies through interesections when at a stop sign or light because the idiot approaching didn't appear to notice me. I'll keep doing that too.

LL75

I had the unfortunate experience where I needed to brake fast, I was coming off a highway ramp and the light was green so all of the cars were moving, well some dipshit decided to cut across 3 lanes from a right turn to get where she wanted to go not caring that there were plenty of cars in the other lanes.... this caused all lanes to slam on their brakes which sucked for me because I was next coming off the highway

Long story short, I needed to stop in about 5 feet while turning right going about 25mpg; now I know that isn't much but my mp3 500 stopped with plenty of space and then allowed me to throttle up and weave past the douche bags traffic jam so the car behind me didn't rear end me.

My scoot held up perfectly during a sudden turning stop.

Funny thing is why do all douche bags refuse to look around when they know they f!ck#d up traffic? They stare straight ahead like they didn't do anything stupid.

[quote="ssgt"] That would be my Petzl Tikka Plus headlamp or else my horn's growing in earlier this season. I find that it's useful for creeping about in the dark looking for the loo and when setting up camp at the end of the day. It's also great fun for scaring hell out of our dogs. Now that I look at the enlarged version I realize how closely my snout resembles a double-barrel 12-ga.. eww...

LL75

All too sad and true - they had a fatality in Chattanooga this summer - some idiot decided at the last minute to come over 3 lanes - brakes slammed, biker goes off on shoulder to avoid car - idiot texting behind him notices situation too late veers into biker killing him. Some days you just can't win.

Bubbajon.... you sound seriously pissed off about this. I only asked because I was interested and a simple enough solution would seem to be getting a license. Sure as heck didn't intend to anger you, that's why I included this in my post: "Not criticizing you, just wondering why." As to your closing remark I'm a bit taken aback by it.

LL75

I don't really care about the "trick" of the stoppie(ie. the rear wheel leaving the ground). The point isn't that he did a stoppie, the point is that he is moving at a very good pace and stops on a dime. While it may not be highway speeds, it's certainly "around town" sorta speed. I'm saying that based on the video, and the experienced testimony given thus far by myself and others, I believe that the Consumer Reports guy's comments that he believed the weight of the bike would counteract any benefits of 3 contact patches and the extra disc are incorrect. Watch the video again and check the speed and braking distance. It's fast on the video, so check it a few times. Forget the extraneous stoppie that occurs.

Exactamundo - the extra weight at the front will *help* the front tyres keep their grip rather than skidding. With dual contact patches it stops very, very quickly, as quickly as the equally heavy GP800, but with no danger of front wheel lockup (which is quite possible on the GP, tested on a Machine Control Day) or sliding out.

Bloody impressive in fact.

Nahhhh - not pissed at all. Sorry it gave you that impression and I appreciate your concern. It just seems that everytime someone brings up the motorcycle vs something else debate it inevitably leads to licensing requirements and it's just old hat by now California seems to be the biggest bone of contention. As far as my closing quote I was referring to the idjits that don't have enough sense to wear a helmet. I see 'em all the time here in Austin. In states that require said helmet you have those lil brain buckets that serve as much purpose as a toupee in preventing head injuries.

Please, if you must bring those up kindly refer to them in the proper vernacular. They are correctly known as "Cat Bowls" thank you.

LL75

Not trying to be a smart-ass here, but I looked up the Einstein quote and it is:

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

It makes more sense this way, and isn't ad hominem.

I paraphrased it because I *wanted* it to be ad hominem. Stupidity is much too vague. In my personal world-view anyone who rides without a helmet is - *ahem* - an idiot. It is in fact his right to be an idiot (as evidenced by idiotic behavior) - and even deny that he is in his own eyes an idiot, but nonetheless I am entitled to my view that riding sans helmet is prima facie idiocy.
So forgive my poetic license with Einstein's quote as I bent and hammered it to my will.

Welcome to the Smart Ass Olympics.

Knowingly changing a quote, putting it inside quotation marks and providing attribution isn't paraphrasing, it's intentionally misquoting. You could give people the wrong impression.

Oops, I forgot to gratuitously drop some Latin. Maybe next time.

Here's a spoon so you can dip into their conversation a little easier... Do I win gold in the smart ass Olympics yet?

Thanks, but I think I'll need a bigger spoon. Maybe a ladle.

Quite possibly, a shovel.

Neeeeh, your as handsome as could be

I was thinking the same thing, once it's in quotation marks you're saying it's a quote and not paraphrasing.

Wayne B

Exactly - I think you've got it! An excavation tool for all those meaningless conversations about state laws and whether the MP3 is a motorcycle or not. BTW - sneering at a pretty common Latin phrases is more of a commentary on the educational system you went through than any dig against me. Remember that earlier where Frank mentioned an ad hominem attack? Well that also was Latin (never heard you squeek about that one) and you just performed one. So did you have something meaningful to say or you just up for a pissing contest?

Oh - and that "quote" has been "generally" attributed to Einstein and as with many "quotes" there's no proof. Finally - if you google the phrase and substitute idiot you will find I'm not the first nor will I be the last to use idiot in place of stupid. Sometimes you want to use a dull sword - sometimes a sharp one against a dullard.

I think the conversation about what is a quote and what is not has been blown out of proportion considering this is an internet forum and not a thesis paper....

Amazing how one can check out for a day and get lost. Open a post about a Consumer Reports blog and get a long discussion on subjects like Latin and quotation marks.

Rember earlier in the thread several urged us to put the comments on the blog. Wonder if these will make the cut by the blog editor.

The Atlana Army Navy game party yesterday was much more fun especially with Navy making it 8 in a row. Over 250 representing both sides at the Fox Sports Bar and Grill in Atlantic Station.

heheh... wait a minute... your signature in quotes... can a quote about someone that doesn't exist be verified?? I smell a thesis argument coming...

I think Luthorhuss just lost his gold medal.

It's an EXACT quote from the show...I know, I had to watch the intro like 10 times to make sure every word was correct. So I'm quoting the narrator. Fuzzy, you just lost YOUR gold medal ! Did you say Navy won yesterday? Sweet! I love basketball!

Hey guys, I didn't want to start a flame war here. Sorry.

I share the opinion that riding without a helmet is idiocy, though I know there are some who think the same thing about my riding at all, even with my Toreador Pants ways.

I am also aware that many "quotes" are misattributed to Albert Einstein, so I guess this could be one of them.

Finally, though I have been (and continue to be) a subscriber to Consumer Reports for many years, I have learned to take their recommendations with more than a grain of salt (a spoonful? sometimes a shovelful?) especially when it comes to specialized products like cameras, wine, and now motorcycles and scooters. Kudos to all of you who are responding to the blog. I haven't, because my MP3s are the only PTW's I have ridden since 45 years ago, so I can't speak of the comparisons from recent personal experience.