OP
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:41:54 +0000

Molto Verboso
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OP
Molto Verboso
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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:41:54 +0000 quote
Sometimes we in the PC world get it so horribly wrong that we have to laugh at ourselves, and this is just one of those times. My humble apologies to anybody who's offended, but apparently this is a real product that is expected to be welcomed by corporate American IT buyers.



Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:44:53 +0000

Moderatus Rana
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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:44:53 +0000 quote
What's wrong with it? I think it is kinda cool.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:45:20 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:45:20 +0000 quote
it's not the worst of ideas i've ever seen... or am i missing something?
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:45:32 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:45:32 +0000 quote
Wow... So Win Vista and Win 7 pretend to be the Mac OS, and now this Dell is trying to disguise itself as an iMac??

It's starting to seem like even if I don't make the switch to Mac (which I'm hoping to next year), I'll still end up looking like I did, no matter what I buy.

Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:02:41 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:02:41 +0000 quote
Small form factor PC's have been around for ages. IIRC, Gateway introduced the SFF, flat screen, "Profile" series in the mid/late 90's when the Imacs still looked like bubbly little gum drops.

just sayin'...
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:03:53 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:03:53 +0000 quote
Office and business-directed desktops have come out in designs like this for years... this is by no means a "mac design"
The idea is simply to have a space-saving PC for an office environment.

At any rate, you've been able to get PCs in little teeny tiny cubes, extra slim form-factors, etc like this for well over a decade. I think Apple tends to erroneously get all the credit for that stuff because they have been more open to marketing such designs to the home-owner, and not limiting the styling and advertisement to business environments.

The Vista/7 issue... I can see that. I still, quite frankly, prefer the old minimalist Windows 95/98 desktop to ALL this type of crap. I want my computer to be a clean and simple working environment... a canvas for me to paint on, rather than one which is already full of stuff.

*edit* +1 on Birdsnest

Last edited by xantufrog on Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:04:44 +0000; edited 1 time
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:04:18 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:04:18 +0000 quote
Its actually a clever design compared to my tower sitting on the floor and taking space .. at least all the usb and cd hardware is easy to use..

It's not a Mac but its a good try at an old design..
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:21:14 +0000

Ossessionato
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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:21:14 +0000 quote
Several vendors made small form factor PC cases. Some without any floppy, CD/DVD or even USB. They had a mouse and keyboard connectors, video out and the power cord. Many of these were installed in library and classroom applications to reduce costs and security risks (no way to add or take anything from the computer).

WYSE was a terminal maker back in the "green screen" days or central office mainframe computers. A WYSE terminal simply displayed the what a mainframe computer sent to it and the desktop terminal didn't do any of the processing (thinking). Some of these small form factor PCs emulated that environment with a centralized computer doing all thinking and the local computers acted as a terminal. The whole concept of a "personal computer" is that the local computer does the thinking on its own, at the "desktop".

What is new-ish is the mounting of the CPU in a rack on the back of a flat screen monitor. Flat screen monitors did not exist back then.

Yes... I know... I AM A GEEK

It has paid the bills for the past 20+ years.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:22:32 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:22:32 +0000 quote
Dell does make all in ones (as does just about every other brand)

Seth

i.e.



Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:09:20 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:09:20 +0000 quote


Remember the rush to imitate the original colored iMacs? Everything from beige all-in-ones to trying to encase everything under the sun in translucent colored plastic?

Ahhh... hilarious.

Quad core 27" iMac, FTW!
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:12:52 +0000

Moderibbit
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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:12:52 +0000 quote
I really fail to see what is so absurd about this model, and/or how it is a mac-knockoff...
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:17:43 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:17:43 +0000 quote
its like a mac?

so if the dvd-rom dies, you can't fix it yourself, or the warranty is void?
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:20:28 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:20:28 +0000 quote
Gateway PC SFF Circa 1999 - 2000


iMac Circa 1999 - 2000


I'm a Mac guy all the way.... but come on, really?
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:12:46 +0000

Olivia Newton-John
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Olivia Newton-John
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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:12:46 +0000 quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Gateway PC SFF Circa 1999 - 2000


iMac Circa 1999 - 2000


I'm a Mac guy all the way.... but come on, really?
in case anyone is interested, i worked on that gateway profile project. so did modern vespa member oldspice. ah, the old days...
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:18:18 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:18:18 +0000 quote
I ran 9 or 10 of those profiles as clients on our hospital network. We usually expect 3 to 4 years on our machines. Those Gateways held up very well. (The subsequent generation.... not so much.) But, I don't think we had any warranty claims or issues with that series. Liked 'em fine.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:18:22 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:18:22 +0000 quote
I worked on Body Worn Computers for the military in the mid '90s. small's not the issue. I can now do much more with my cell phone than I could with my desktop from the mid '90s.

I like the idea, but since laptops are pretty much taking over the market it's a bit of a 'who cares'.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:19:34 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:19:34 +0000 quote
Re: NSFAF (Not Safe For Apple Folks)
jrsjr wrote:
Sometimes we in the PC world get it so horribly wrong that we have to laugh at ourselves, and this is just one of those times. My humble apologies to anybody who's offended, but apparently this is a real product that is expected to be welcomed by corporate American IT buyers.
I like this. Big improvement on the old Optiplex desktops.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:26:00 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:26:00 +0000 quote
Vista vs Windows 7
Have you noticed that windows isn't trying to sell Vista anymore, trying to push it under the rug so to speak. Vista was yet another try to be like a Mac. And now as I understand Windows 7 is being advertised as better then XP, MS has lost there way since Bill Gates left. MS XP is the best program MS has ever come up with, IMHO.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:27 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 20:36:27 +0000 quote
Once you try Windows 7 64bit you may change your mind Erich
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:53:21 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:53:21 +0000 quote
I learned on DOS, and have had just about every version of Windows up to and including Vista.

I got tired of Windows Registry, and all the clutter and crashing, not to mention how long it took to restore all the files, patches, updates, etc every time my computer crashed. Oh, and keeping up with McAfee was getting to be a part time job.

I switched to a mac about 4 years ago, and moved our office over to the Mac platform a couple of years back, and I couldn't be happier! I haven't had to deal with any of the garbage I used to take for granted.

If Windows 7 is the best thing on a Wintel computer since sliced bread, I'm happy for all the Windows folks, but MS lost me a as a customer a long time ago.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:56:23 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 21:56:23 +0000 quote
64 bit?
stickyfrog wrote:
Once you try Windows 7 64bit you may change your mind Erich
My partner has a DELL 64bit computer and he had to put aside an expensive printer bec it wouldn't hook up. We still have the printer, it's too large for my use, takes three individual color cartridges and one black. Would anyone like to purchase a slietly used HP printer. What is so great about a 64bit computer? He plays games on his, is that it? It's good for online games.
Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:16:32 +0000

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Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:16:32 +0000 quote
Microsoft are basically dicks. 32 bit and 64 bit are mainly different in that that limit the amount of memory you can use. For instance, in 32 bit, windows will only recognize 3.5 gigs of ram, even if you put 4 gigs in. Where-as with 64 bit, you can put in as much as you can stuff in there, and it'll recognize and make use of it all.

Not really as much of an issue for gaming, one is generally ok with 2 to 3 gigs of ram. I have 4 in my main machine and it runs Crysis maxed out. However when it comes to video editing and graphic design, 4 gigs becomes rather frustrating.

Which is why I also have a mac, with 32 gigs of ram.
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:13:24 +0000

Olivia Newton-John
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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:13:24 +0000 quote
i don't recall apple trying to sell os 9 anymore either. seems like they shelved it once x came out...
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:53:50 +0000

Moderibbit
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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:53:50 +0000 quote
prime wrote:
Microsoft are basically dicks. 32 bit and 64 bit are mainly different in that that limit the amount of memory you can use. For instance, in 32 bit, windows will only recognize 3.5 gigs of ram, even if you put 4 gigs in. Where-as with 64 bit, you can put in as much as you can stuff in there, and it'll recognize and make use of it all.

Not really as much of an issue for gaming, one is generally ok with 2 to 3 gigs of ram. I have 4 in my main machine and it runs Crysis maxed out. However when it comes to video editing and graphic design, 4 gigs becomes rather frustrating.

Which is why I also have a mac, with 32 gigs of ram.
The difference between a 32-bit and 64-bit computer is potentially much more than the OS recognizing more ram. Also, the 32-bit limitation is not strictly microsoft's - at one point no PCs were 64 bit, be they microsoft based, apple based, or other. For example linux operating systems come in 32-bit and 64-bit varieties to accompany the hardware under your hood. 32-bit computers are not 32-bit because "microsoft is a dick" - I am currently on a 32-bit Ubuntu machine, because it is older 32-bit intel hardware. My desktops are 64-bit AMD machines running ubuntu (neither microsoft nor intel inside )
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:11:36 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:11:36 +0000 quote
Re: NSFAF (Not Safe For Apple Folks)
jrsjr wrote:
Sometimes we in the PC world get it so horribly wrong that we have to laugh at ourselves, and this is just one of those times. My humble apologies to anybody who's offended, but apparently this is a real product that is expected to be welcomed by corporate American IT buyers.
*UGH* ...it's... got... WIRES... >>ewww<<
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:12:58 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:12:58 +0000 quote
mmm delicious



Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:19:26 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 02:19:26 +0000 quote
hiluxxe wrote:
mmm delicious
That's what I'm talkin' about! I don't care who did it first... it's just... beautiful... Sniff.

Anyone ever notice that the most common criticisms of Macs (cost too much, all about style and culture, underperform compared to lower-cost alternatives, they're for deluded snobs, etc.) are fundamentally the same as the most common criticisms of Vespas?
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:06:44 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 03:06:44 +0000 quote
prime wrote:
For instance, in 32 bit, windows will only recognize 3.5 gigs of ram, even if you put 4 gigs in.
This is simply not true. 32-bit Win 7 recognizes all 4GB of memory. Usually .5-.9GB of the memory is reserved for hardware devices. Many users mistakenly think "usable memory" is the same as "how much memory the system recognizes".

See the screen capture below.

In this example 769MB are being used for hardware devices (mostly a graphics card). If you add it all up, it comes out to 4096MB (4GB).

769MB + 933MB + 11MB + 1910MB + 473MB = 4096MB.

All 4GB are accounted for.

Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:32:36 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:32:36 +0000 quote
Wow, it looks like I'm the only other person to think the design is absurd. 

The issue isn't the size of the box; it's the placement.



It forces the user to reach not just behind but around the monitor to get at the optical drive, the USB ports, or anything.  Horribly awkward, especially if you want to actually see what you're reaching for.

It also adds enough depth to negate much of the advantage of having a flat panel monitor.

Compared to an ordinary small-form-factor computer free standing from the monitor (like Dell and others have, yes, been making for years), this design is full of fail.
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:56:44 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:56:44 +0000 quote
I agree with OP, that thing is an abomination!
OP
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:01:06 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:01:06 +0000 quote
lostboy wrote:
Wow, it looks like I'm the only other person to think the design is absurd. 

The issue isn't the size of the box; it's the placement.



It forces the user to reach not just behind but around the monitor to get at the optical drive, the USB ports, or anything.  Horribly awkward, especially if you want to actually see what you're reaching for.

It also adds enough depth to negate much of the advantage of having a flat panel monitor.

Compared to an ordinary small-form-factor computer free standing from the monitor (like Dell and others have, yes, been making for years), this design is full of fail.
Right you are, sir! The ergonomics of this design are possibly the worst I have ever seen.

That's just the ergonomics of the CPU placement. Did you notice the sharp edges they left on top of the "handle?" Would those make mincemeat of your hands if you were ever unfortunate enough to have to pick this thing up? I predict technicians will reach for the duct tape en masse.

Then there's the esthetic statement made by those gross vestigial protrubences on the bottom of the CPU. The statement those make is, "This CPU box is dedicated to the Hunchback of Notre Dell because we have hobbled it's feet so that it may never stand alone!"

And that's not to mention the base post which appears to be a section of aluminum cable riser. It is the ugliest thing I think I've ever seen intentionally used in a design.

All in all, the design appears to be a marriage of "losing entry in a first-year college design competition" and "a piece of rolling luggage that's lost its wheels." It's horrid beyond all reason. I'm sure there must have been good reason for this, perhaps a lot of surplus parts were available, including the aluminum cable riser? Maybe this was the result of one of those "design-by-committee" disasters like the Pontiac Aztek? I don't know.

Absurd? Yes! And not in a fun way.

Last edited by jrsjr on Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:29:29 +0000; edited 2 times
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:05:34 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:05:34 +0000 quote
Win 7
What they don't tell you is a mirror comes with the computer to be fastened to the right side wall. In this app the techie can see what they are doing, problem solved.
OP
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:31:51 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 07:31:51 +0000 quote
Erich51, I forgot to mention, the first thing I pictured when I got the e-mail about this computer was an animated version of it running around inside the movie, The Brave Little Toaster, threatening to sue the other appliances if they wouldn't upgrade to Win7. I could just imagine the Brave Little Toaster cowering in a corner with the reflection of this thing looming larger and larger on his face as the horrible computer chants, "You will be assimilated!" But that's just me.
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:04:01 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:04:01 +0000 quote
ericalm wrote:
hiluxxe wrote:
mmm delicious
That's what I'm talkin' about! I don't care who did it first... it's just... beautiful... Sniff.

Anyone ever notice that the most common criticisms of Macs (cost too much, all about style and culture, underperform compared to lower-cost alternatives, they're for deluded snobs, etc.) are fundamentally the same as the most common criticisms of Vespas?
Very beautiful, I was staring at it while a movie preview was running in the Apple store.

+1 on the comparison to Vespas Eric.
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:31:24 +0000

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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 18:31:24 +0000 quote
jrsjr wrote:
lostboy wrote:
Wow, it looks like I'm the only other person to think the design is absurd. 

The issue isn't the size of the box; it's the placement.



It forces the user to reach not just behind but around the monitor to get at the optical drive, the USB ports, or anything.  Horribly awkward, especially if you want to actually see what you're reaching for.

It also adds enough depth to negate much of the advantage of having a flat panel monitor.

Compared to an ordinary small-form-factor computer free standing from the monitor (like Dell and others have, yes, been making for years), this design is full of fail.
Right you are, sir! The ergonomics of this design are possibly the worst I have ever seen.

That's just the ergonomics of the CPU placement. Did you notice the sharp edges they left on top of the "handle?" Would those make mincemeat of your hands if you were ever unfortunate enough to have to pick this thing up? I predict technicians will reach for the duct tape en masse.

Then there's the esthetic statement made by those gross vestigial protrubences on the bottom of the CPU. The statement those make is, "This CPU box is dedicated to the Hunchback of Notre Dell because we have hobbled it's feet so that it may never stand alone!"

And that's not to mention the base post which appears to be a section of aluminum cable riser. It is the ugliest thing I think I've ever seen intentionally used in a design.

All in all, the design appears to be a marriage of "losing entry in a first-year college design competition" and a piece of rolling luggage that's lost its wheels. It's horrid beyond all reason. I'm sure there must have been good reason for this, perhaps a lot of surplus parts were available, including the aluminum cable riser? Maybe this was the result of one of those "design-by-committee" disasters like the Pontiac Aztek? I don't know.

Absurd? Yes! And not in a fun way.
It's actually a good design for an office environment, if not the prettiest. There is rarely a need for access to the optical drive. IT will install software over a network and you don't want users doing much with it. There are likely USB ports on the side of the monitor, typical of Dell. The layout of the flat panel and CPU box allows it to fit nicely in the corner of an L shaped desk without loosing all the space behind the monitor. Finally, I doubt the cast plastic handle has any edges sharp enough to mangle anyone, unless they are the wimpiest IT person ever spawned. It's not intended for an architect's office, it is for mass deployment in a cube farm.
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:06:22 +0000

Banned
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Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:06:22 +0000 quote
ericalm wrote:
Anyone ever notice that the most common criticisms of Macs (cost too much, all about style and culture, underperform compared to lower-cost alternatives, they're for deluded snobs, etc.) are fundamentally the same as the most common criticisms of Vespas?
i'd bet that all the vintage guys will agree that a decent PC with the same speed, and actual usefulness costs 1/5 the price of a mac,

but you have to be able to diagnose small problems and fix them yourself.
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:22:33 +0000

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:04:57 +0000
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Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:04:57 +0000
Posts: 8887
Location: Atlanta, GA
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:22:33 +0000 quote
dannyw wrote:
i'd bet that all the vintage guys will agree that a decent PC with the same speed, and actual usefulness costs 1/5 the price of a mac,

but you have to be able to diagnose small problems and fix them yourself.
oh snap





methinks this thread is going down soon... 8)
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:51:56 +0000

Hooked
Cosa and P200E
Joined: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 22:45:19 +0000
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Hooked
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Location: Spain
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 21:51:56 +0000 quote
Quote:
i'd bet that all the vintage guys will agree that a decent PC with the same speed, and actual usefulness costs 1/5 the price of a mac
I have a vintage computer still in daily use. 1998 Silicon Graphics O2 workstation. Rocks like a vintage Vespa and still gets the job done.
Sound capture is better than my modern PC.

When everyone else was doing beige SGI was knocking out cool computers in every colour of the rainbow.
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:33:02 +0000

Ossessionato
BV 400 (21) , BV 350 (16) SOLD :( , Sprint 150 2015(SOLD), Liberty S150 2018
Joined: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 01:38:31 +0000
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Location: Florida
 
Ossessionato
BV 400 (21) , BV 350 (16) SOLD :( , Sprint 150 2015(SOLD), Liberty S150 2018
Joined: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 01:38:31 +0000
Posts: 2956
Location: Florida
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:33:02 +0000 quote
ericalm wrote:


Remember the rush to imitate the original colored iMacs? Everything from beige all-in-ones to trying to encase everything under the sun in translucent colored plastic?

Ahhh... hilarious.

Quad core 27" iMac, FTW!
a man with fine taste ! i luv mine
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:49:12 +0000

Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:56:36 +0000
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Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
 
Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:56:36 +0000
Posts: 5049
Location: Sparks, Nevada, USA
Sat, 12 Dec 2009 22:49:12 +0000 quote
louispain wrote:
I have a vintage computer still in daily use. 1998 Silicon Graphics O2 workstation. Rocks like a vintage Vespa and still gets the job done.
Sound capture is better than my modern PC.

When everyone else was doing beige SGI was knocking out cool computers in every colour of the rainbow.
I love all things vintage. Someplace around here I have an original 1st year MacIntosh.

The first SGI system I worked with was about the size of two short file cabinets side-by-side. If I recall, it was called an IRIS. Amazing systems in their day. I'd bet still pretty cool even today. But they took 220V power to run them.

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