Modern Vespa

well the 2 rings that are fitted under the pressure spring

Many thanks to Travis at SF Moto, who just installed a HiT clutch in my 400. I also have the Fuzzy Washer and Pulley 16g sliders. I went with Pulley's default spring setup.

During my 20 mile trip home, I experienced the following...

- Takeoff is smooth and scoot is a lot more responsive, slightest delay upon throttling. However, clutch kicks in fast thereafter. Combined with the belt dropping lower thanks to the Fuzzy Washer, acceleration surprised me, putting a smile on my face. No wheelies with default setup.
- Scoot doesn't feel like a tank, no sluggish shudder.
- No annoying noise from tranny around 2500rpm (as mentioned by another member with his or her HiT clutch).
- Acceleration between 5K rpm and 7K rpm has greatly improved.
- Like little_chef mentioned earlier in this thread, scooter is smooth at any speed.

That's all I have to report for the first 20 miles. I'm very happy so far with the clutch, especially combined with the Fuzzy Washer and Pulley sliders. I'll keep the thread informed.

Eric

P.S. Tomorrow, I complete ponydrivr's air filter mod. I created and submitted to Tap Plastics a template for the ponydrivr piece that separates the unfiltered and filtered airflow. For $22, they provided me with the piece. Can't wait to experience the results.

DAY TWO

I decided not to do the ponydrvr air mod. Instead, I replaced my Malossi air filter with a new one. The scoot rides like it has 0 miles on it. I took it out for another 20 miles. The bonus acceleration is a plus and the scoot idles smoothly. Just a quick note on the installation - The HiT clutch package came with a set of spring dampers in a small ziplock bag. When you look at the clutch, you cannot see the preinstalled dampers. The extra dampers confused me. Also, my package arrived with two torque bot rings. According to Maksor, you can install both rings for additional torque on the springs. I had the thicker ring installed. I am curious about how much extra torque you get with both installed.

Since my MP3 clutch started to slip, this is what I wanted to do over the winter. But I found a almost new, complete clutch on ebay for $75. Had to go with value this time. But never say never, so keep up on the review.

Cheers,
Tross

$75 is a great deal for a clutch with little miles on it. I've got my stock clutch as a backup. However, I can't see myself going back to it.

Eric

Today, I left on a 175 mile trip to test the new HiT clutch at highway speeds. The scooter ran smoothly and the clutch continues to put a grin on my face, especially while climbing grades and passing.

I've made the same trip about a dozen times. Freeway speeds on long steep grades used to be a struggle. At full throttle, I couldn't maintain speed on a grade. The new clutch optimizes climbing. Today, on the same grades, I could maintain speed and didn't have to go full throttle. When passing a car, the burst of speed between 65 and 80mph was impressive.

So far, so good.

Eric

Yesterday marked one week of riding with the HiT clutch. I've put 333 miles on it and I still have a smile on my face. The last few evenings, I've been riding in 40F weather. The scoot runs better in colder temps. With the clutch, I am getting optimal performance when throttling.

Now, all I have to do is figure out why my scoot dies twice to three times on me at cold start. Once it warms up to two bars, it idles fine. I can only believe that my Akrapovic muffler has something to do with it. I did the EVAP canister mod and checked my electrical wiring for any issues. AF1 informed me that the Akrapovic doesn't require any ECU map changes. I bought the 2009 scoot with 96 miles on it. I wonder if I need an ECU update?

Eric

I posted a video of an evening ride, enjoying the additional power because of my HiT clutch.

For optimal viewing, click on play and then pause, and select 1080HD from the YouTube sprocket. Wait until the red HD icon displays, and then play.

I would run it by a Vespa shop and make sure you have the latest and greatest map loaded from Vespa.

The new maps run so much better than the old ones and address stalling too. There have been updates since 2009.

Thank you. I will do that ASAP. The issue has worsen. This morning, during warmup, I stalled four times and could barely get it to idle after each attempt. Thereafter, no issues while riding. I phoned you guys last week and was informed that my Akrapovic shouldn't affect the map performance.

nice video. I have been waiting to see a video with an HID light installed and you convinced me to purchase some H1 bulbs for my kit that i have. I was originally going to install some in my VW Touran 1.9TDI, but had a hard time locating the adapters that hold the bulb, so i now know where this kit is going. I am definitely going to consider this clutch for sure now. Thanks for helping me spend money i don't want to spend.

The HID kit is a no-brainer. I installed the low/hi beam kit (2x 35 watt bulbs and ballasts) and used a MV wiring mod that is done at the left handlebar. Then, I lowered both beams to the lowest point so that I wouldn't blind oncoming traffic.

If you're interested in the clutch, BravoTwoFour has a HiT clutch with about 300 miles on it for $100 less than new.

He PM'd me about it and I think I will pull the trigger on it soon. Just waiting for a little money to come into my account. Right now it is a want and not a need as I have a few things around the house that need taking care of first.

You nailed it AF1. I was two updates behind. Only $36 for the update!

Funny thing, the tech told me I needed at least 20 miles before the map would kick in for a solid cold start. It took 60. This morning, I started the scoot from cold and it didn't stall once. I'm also loving the smooth freeway speeds with the new map. Let's hope it continues this good behavior!

Eric

DAY 23 UPDATE

I've now put almost 1,000 miles on the HiT clutch and my 400 still moves like a race horse. The firmware updates to optimize my 400 really surprised me with the added power and smooth idle. 90% of my rides have been at freeway speeds. I can only imagine what the next looser spring options can do! For now, I'm happy with the scoot's performance.

Still smilin' Eric

DAY 30

Yesterday, I checked my coolant because my fan kicked on twice while riding and the temperature gauge climbed a bit. I discovered that my coolant was very low. I was surprised because the coolant was filled during my 6000 mile service. 2700 miles later, the reservoir is low.

At first I thought I had a leak. I replenished the coolant and ran the scoot for 15 minutes. All the while, with the front tupperware off, I observed my hoses from the radiator to the water pump. No leaks and everything ran normal. With the added coolant, the fan no longer kicks on.

I wonder if the lack of coolant is due to the added performance as a result of the HiT clutch.

Nonetheless, the clutch still works well.

could be possible. Engines like to run a bit hotter and they perform a bit better, but there is always the possibility of damage if the motor is run to hot. could be a placebo effect too. even though the gauge stops in the middle, most vehicles run a bit hotter since people would get paranoid and run into the dealer each time it went over the middle. VW gauges from the 90's were accurate and it was normal to see 100C on the gauge. had a VW polo G40, a little rocket, that would go up to 110C, fan come on, and never go beyond. that was normal for the little 1.3L supercharged motor.

Thanks for the response. You're correct. The scooter runs a little hotter. I just need to pay more attention to the coolant levels. Otherwise, she's purring and so am I.

I have never seen mine go above the middle, but did hear the fan one time sitting in stop and go traffic on the autobahn. came on for a minute or two and back off. i have only had a chance to drive mine for about 1.5 months as i picked it up around the beginning of October. rode as long as my fingers would allow in the cold and then pulled the battery. days are starting to shape up a little better, just waiting for the ice and snow to melt, so hopefully around march i will be back to riding again.

WEEK 11 UPDATE

I've ridden 3000+ issue-free miles on the HiT clutch. Most of them have been at 70+ mph and the clutch performs as well as it did on day one. I'm lovin' it! Eric

I have an appointment at my dealer in the middle of April, should be hitting my service time, so I am getting a Dr. Pulley HIT clutch installed, new back tire, and an oil change. Only reason for dealer visit is time at this point. Don't have time to do all the work myself and the lack of an impact wrench. Might have to order a Ryobi . What is the consensus on the springs. Leave it in the original shipped setup? Looking for a bit better take off, and I have 17g rollers and sliders from Dr. Pulley, and still tired of the sluggish take off. Especially in the city when I kind of make my way to the front of the line at the light, only to have a Smart hand me my ass due to the wait wait wait engagement go.

Thanks.

I went for the default setup that was installed upon arrival. The takeoff for my 400 definitely improved from the sluggish performance prior to having the clutch, fuzzy washer and sliders installed. During my next major service, I think I'll have my tech replace the stock with the next looser springs to increase takeoff power. I'm really curious to experience the difference.

Will the looser springs affect top end speed. Logic tells me no, but I am not 100% sure on that as I am not 100% familiar with the CVT in these bikes. My appointment at the dealer is not til April so I have time for the feedback/opinions. I would like to maintain the top speed I have now, 150ish kmh but get quicker jumps off the light when I decide to make myself first. Also I recall you saying the take off is much much smoother....no clutch chatter as with stock. Still true after the many miles you have put on it?

Thanks for your solid feedback and I shall continue to update this thread with my feedback after installation.

PS how long is break-in miles?

You should have your tech install the clutch with the default springs. You'll definitely notice a smoother start off the line, not to mention a zippier one. It's pretty breathtaking until you get used to it. My 400 is still performing like it did the first day I had the clutch installed.

While takeoff is great. What you're going to notice on freeways is that the thrust is zippier. I especially notice the acceleration going from 35mph to 50mph. However, you should also notice it while throttling from 65 to 80 and above. No problems passing. My scoot tops out at 85mph at 7500rpm with the new clutch. However, if you're on a 500, your top speed should be around 90 to 94mph. I believe the 500s can hit 100mph, right?

I hope this helps. Have fun!

Eric

There's a great wiki here on the forum describing how a CVT works.
https://modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-cvt-principles-how-it-works-how-to-improve-it-

Also found this on some other forum describing in more detail decelaration and what components are involved.

"In the CVT the larger of the two clutches is spring loaded against a helix. The helix moves the clutch open as the bike speeds up and the spring provides a return pressure on this clutch and helix, so when you let off the gas the clutch want to close back up and take the belt to the top or normal position of the clutch. The only time you will feel the scooter free wheel would be when the clutch is not engaged.

This only controls the gear ratios. There is a centrifugal clutch that disconnects the drive from the transfer box at the axle. This sits behind the rear variator half pulleys. From a standstill, this clutch engages as engine revs rise and releases as road speed drops down to about walking speed, so you always have a measure of engine braking until the scoot has slowed right down.

The contra spring closes the half pulleys as the front pair open. This happens as the engine revs drop and the pressure exerted by the rollers becomes less than the pressure exerted by the spring at the rear - effectively the belt is alway trying to force the half pulleys apart, and depending on engine revs either the front under the pressure of the rollers or the rear under the pressure of the spring will be better at resisting this - this is how the gear ratios are controlled. The helix at the rear allows the contra spring to exert a bit more pressure when torque tries to twist the rear pulley - ie under acceleration - and that lowers the gearing a little more than the engine revs would normally allow. Under deceleration, as engine revs start to drop the front pulley starts to open. This allows the rear to close and engine revs will tend to rise, but as the scoot is slowing what actually happens is a combination of engine revs dropping but being prevented from dropping too quickly as the transmission shifts down. The resultant engine brakling is not dissimilar to that produced by a bike with conventional transmission, but it's less than that produced by a typical 4-stroke just because of the different nature of the two types of engine."

I knew there was reason I joined this forum. I really appreciate the feedback and the information. can't wait to get mine installed. I don't ride stupid but the little extra take off from the light is definitely a plus and the better passing Pep too. I really noticed on my ride on the autobahn A few days ago that the extra pep and not slip would have really been nice. Not that keeping up with traffic was a problem but a little more confidence in what the scoot was capable of would have been better.

What is the break In period for the clutch. Most of the time it is about 1000 miles give or take At least pertaining to cars.

So had my service done today with new Dr pulley clutch and what a difference. On the stock springs power feels much better. Smoother take off and no need to rev so hard. Good acceleration at 5200 rpm versus needing to be at 6200. Easy low speed control and no more chatter. That drove me nuts. Will ride this setup and maybe look at changing springs on next service when belt change is required. So much traffic today so no real chance to really drive the scoot but I am impressed so far.

Eric..have you installed the other springs yet? Curious to know how they feel.

Hi new200guy.

Did you get your new HiT clutch with the yellow clutch springs installed? Thanks.

I followed Eric's advice and had it installed as it came from the factory. I do have all the other springs that came with it. The factory setup is supposed to bet good acceleration and good comfort. Again did not have a chance to really drive it since the traffic was so bad. So far with the Driving experience is pretty good. will post more impressions here as I get some miles on it. Well kilometers Since I can't think in standard system anymore.

Was able to get some riding time in yesterday afternoon and am highly impressed. No initial slipping and very linear power delivery in my opinion. Overtaking is much better with no slipping and powering out of corners is much improved. So far and Eric seems to think the same a good investment. I do have 17g Dr pulley rollers in so this helps but I can't say how it would feel with the stock rollers in. I can I'll only imagine a nice improvement. Initial take off lag is nearly gone with a clean ramp up in power.

I see glowing reviews about the HIT clutch performance, and now I want one! One question I have though... how is your fuel consumption with the new clutch compared to the old one? Even though I get about 54 MPG on my 500, fuel ain't free, and I would have to take fuel economy into consideration. I live in southeast Georgia, and there are no other MP3s around that I know of. I don't even know if the clutch noise (slight rattle and subdued chirping noise) are even normal for a CVT clutch system. It's not bad but goes away once I start moving and accelerating. Maybe it just needs cleaning? Only 5000 miles on it so I have some time to consider new clutch and belt options. I am not kind on the throttle but don't abuse it either. Thanks to all who have kept this thread updated!

yours sounds like its just dirty.
and on fuel mileage, really I mean do is really matter if you drop 1 mpg. if your looking for better mileage ease up on the throttle and you will see the gains.

as for fuel economy, mine has dropped. 8) The reason, fun factor. the clutch does make a little noise, but all that chatter and squeaking is gone. very smooth take offs and ear to ear grin with the new found and much more linear acceleration. I can't say enough about it. the investment is worth it in my opinion. I am not running the fuzzy washer, but i am running the factory setup from Dr Pulley, meaning the 16g springs. I do have the other springs and may play around with them for even better lock up acceleration, but so far, very happy. probably best to use with lighter weights in vario to get fully beni's.

So what is the optimal set up?

Clutch, weights, and fuzzy washer; is that all you need?

I'm up to 7000kms.

Optimal for a 400 would be 16gr Dr Pulley weights, fuzzy washer and a HiT clutch.
A 500 use 17gr weights rest the same.

Thanks Bubba

I'm just curious.

Are there similar set ups from J Costa and Malossi?

I want to make some mods to my Fuoco to make it run more smoothly and also increase the power.

I'm sorry. I just get a bit confused with all the different brands and their bits and pieces. (Don't worry, I'm not an air traffic controller lol)

JCosta is pretty much a has-been - they dropped the ball on support. The replaceable rollers are pretty much unavailable and they had other quality issues. Prolly a collectors item of sorts.
Malossi has a clutch and also a bell housing that is lighter weight. In all honesty that kind of approach is putting lipstick on a pig - a few ounces weight savings and heat reduction isn't going to affect the performance enough to detect.
Nope - there's a reason Dr Pulley rules the market.

Thanks. That's interesting because Dr. Pulley is not sold or handled by anyone here and is much easier to get.Costa and Malossi are more popular in this market. I'd go for Dr P if someone provided sales and service.

I would be interested in hearing how the Dr. Pulley clutch affects your speed between 65 and 80 mph, and what mechanically is happening to make that possible.

I installed the HIT clutch just last month. I left all springs as shipped as recommended by other forum members. I could not be happier! Huge improvement in 0-40mph acceleration and somehow no measurable drop in mileage. 52.7 mpg on last tank with no effort to drive economically. I guess you can get something for nothing. Its interesting that my rpm is ~ 600 higher from a stop but are back to original rpm at highway speed. I changed out the original clutch at 10,500 miles. It still worked fine but had gotten a bit noisier. The pads looked very nasty. I had over-heated the clutch on three separate occasions the last two years. ( I kept getting caught in stop-and-go stadium traffic after football and baseball games. Now I just pull over and wait for the traffic to start actually moving.)