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Soeley wrote:
Looking more on that site, they have another two:
ONE
TWO
The TWO is close but this is not the same. Thank you for the picture JIMC.
What I have noticed is that the OEM roller bearings were made in Korea and the new one I have installed were made in Japan........DO not know if it will make a difference.
⚠️ Last edited by reticulum on UTC; edited 1 time
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Hopefully they are made of sterner stuff!

A few weeks ago I thought my bearings were going again - well now there is no sign of it, I think my 'sensation' was all down to a Dr Pulley slider getting its knickers in a twist. The ones I have installed are the standard Korean Piaggio ones, now with ~15,000 miles or more on them.
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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think mine are going again now a 14000 last done at 6000, guess they did not back them off, w***ers, still at least I can learn how to do them!!
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jim does that part number give you all the parts for both sides?
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Roadcaptain wrote:
jim does that part number give you all the parts for both sides?
I'm virtually certain it does - a phone-call to a dealer will confirm.

And now the weather is a bit warmer I can definitely feel mine are shot. While it was near freezing the notch went away.
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come down to devon mate and we can make a day of it!!!
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The bugger will be refilling and bleeding the brakes and suspension lock. It seems they both need vacuum type bleeding kits.

Mine's going into CBS Whitton - they've been very, very good to me over the last few years and they deserve a few hours labour paid by me. Plus I'd like to see if their slightly different technique (suck it and see) for getting zero pre-load right works as well as a measured back-off. I suspect that someone who has now done loads of these (on many makes of bike) will just 'know' when it's right.

Though I could invest 35 quid into a Mityvac kit instead...
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I am getting the one from Hien Gericke
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Then you should be good to go.

A bike lift will help enormously here - best investment on tools I've ever made.
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I had a mytivac kit and I spent hours trying to bleed the system........I could not do it. I had to drive my scooter to the dealer with the rear brake as the only brake.
The dealer charged me 2hours and a half to fill those 2 systems. $250 According to my dealer the only way to do it is to fill the system by the bottom.
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Best way to bleed the stand or front brakes on this is backwards... use a syringe and force fluid in from the nipple end and let it drag the air upwards into the reserviour, as thats the way the air wants to head anyway, and you wont get any airlocks at all...

... the syringes i use are designed for fork oil level adjustment, but anything will do as long as you can get a bit of pipe over the end.
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cheekythomas wrote:
Best way to bleed the stand or front brakes on this is backwards... use a syringe and force fluid in from the nipple end and let it drag the air upwards into the reserviour, as thats the way the air wants to head anyway, and you wont get any airlocks at all...

... the syringes i use are designed for fork oil level adjustment, but anything will do as long as you can get a bit of pipe over the end.
Who'da figgered. So then I would imagine you need a syringe big enough to hold enough to fill the line? Or no issues refilling and repeating until full? How about the split "T" in the line - any grief from that? So technically if you had a way to put the reservoir under vacuum you could attach a bottle of brake fluid at each nipple, pull vacuum and open the nipples to fill 'er up. Sound about right? I have an older vacuum bleeder that works that way - never thought to use it on my bike... It has a "universal" cap that is basically a series of sized rubber plates that attach to a master cylinder...
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anyone thought about hardening the races?
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Roadcaptain wrote:
anyone thought about hardening the races?
That's a complete disassembly mate - I think the goal is to avoid that sort of thing...
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BubbaJon wrote:
Roadcaptain wrote:
anyone thought about hardening the races?
That's a complete disassembly mate - I think the goal is to avoid that sort of thing...
Yes, but if you already have to, then harden them prior to install. I don't know if they would warp or distort or change dimensionally. I suppose it would depend on the type of steal it is. Someone better than me would know.
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mjm50cal wrote:
BubbaJon wrote:
Roadcaptain wrote:
anyone thought about hardening the races?
That's a complete disassembly mate - I think the goal is to avoid that sort of thing...
Yes, but if you already have to, then harden them prior to install. I don't know if they would warp or distort or change dimensionally. I suppose it would depend on the type of steal it is. Someone better than me would know.
The race isn't the issue to my knowledge - the bearings are what get galled. I've been contemplating that mod described ages ago whereby the owner put in grease nipples. Definitely something I would consider if it comes apart.
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BubbaJon wrote:
mjm50cal wrote:
BubbaJon wrote:
Roadcaptain wrote:
anyone thought about hardening the races?
That's a complete disassembly mate - I think the goal is to avoid that sort of thing...
Yes, but if you already have to, then harden them prior to install. I don't know if they would warp or distort or change dimensionally. I suppose it would depend on the type of steal it is. Someone better than me would know.
The race isn't the issue to my knowledge - the bearings are what get galled. I've been contemplating that mod described ages ago whereby the owner put in grease nipples. Definitely something I would consider if it comes apart.
riticulum showed the wear with a picture and it looked to me that it was the races. I did the bolt hole/grease nipple adapter. I put a 90 degree zerk fitting on it.
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mjm50cal wrote:
BubbaJon wrote:
mjm50cal wrote:
BubbaJon wrote:
Roadcaptain wrote:
anyone thought about hardening the races?
That's a complete disassembly mate - I think the goal is to avoid that sort of thing...
Yes, but if you already have to, then harden them prior to install. I don't know if they would warp or distort or change dimensionally. I suppose it would depend on the type of steal it is. Someone better than me would know.
The race isn't the issue to my knowledge - the bearings are what get galled. I've been contemplating that mod described ages ago whereby the owner put in grease nipples. Definitely something I would consider if it comes apart.
riticulum showed the wear with a picture and it looked to me that it was the races. I did the bolt hole/grease nipple adapter. I put a 90 degree zerk fitting on it.
That would be pretty weird indeed. If the races are that soft then probably the most effective way to harden the surface would be bead blasting followed by polishing.
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They are already hardened - to what degree I don't know, but perhaps a grade more would be helpful.
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ordered parts today so will do this when I have time and maybe take piccies as i go
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I've been thinking how much easier it would be to do if the hydraulic lines ran down the outside of the legs and not through the middle. There'd be no need to disconnect them.

Just wondering if it's feasible to get new pipes made up and run them outside whilst you've got it in bits
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An old trick to pesky brake bleeding is the tie the brake lever back and leave overnight, it dont work with all brakes / bikes.
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AuldNick wrote:
An old trick to pesky brake bleeding is the tie the brake lever back and leave overnight, it dont work with all brakes / bikes.
*forehead slap* good golly it's been ages since I've heard that one. It just might work with these beasts....
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BubbaJon wrote:
AuldNick wrote:
An old trick to pesky brake bleeding is the tie the brake lever back and leave overnight, it dont work with all brakes / bikes.
*forehead slap* good golly it's been ages since I've heard that one. It just might work with these beasts....
Works every time and always makes a difference even to good brakes, sometimes getting that last tiny bubble out the system is all it needs BUT on complete failures even when there is a constant bead of tiny bubles air can hide and wont be moved by gravity alone BUT it's always worth a try and it's free.
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AuldNick wrote:
BubbaJon wrote:
AuldNick wrote:
An old trick to pesky brake bleeding is the tie the brake lever back and leave overnight, it dont work with all brakes / bikes.
*forehead slap* good golly it's been ages since I've heard that one. It just might work with these beasts....
Works every time and always makes a difference even to good brakes, sometimes getting that last tiny bubble out the system is all it needs BUT on complete failures even when there is a constant bead of tiny bubles air can hide and wont be moved by gravity alone BUT it's always worth a try and it's free.
I'm at the stage where I'm forgetting some of those little gems you pick up here and there. I learned from a farmer in North Dakota that a spoon of ground black pepper makes the best radiator stop leak on the planet. Safer too. Lotsa little tricks - thanks for reminding me of that one , might save my butt someday.
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AuldNick wrote:
Works every time
Sorry, I call bollocks.

It only, and can only, work if there is a tiny bit of air left in a system where the air can freely move upwards, and only after you very gently release that lever to allow the air to escape - and don't touch that brake lever for two minutes at least. Try the brakes straight away? Problem back.

All this idea achieves is to put some pressure on the air in the system so that big air bubbles may become smaller ones, and release themselves from the sidewalls and with some time migrate upwards. Any significant air in there - forget it. But, as you say, always worth a try, and free.

I'll also have to say it has never, ever, worked for me when I had a 'problem' air-lock in the lines.
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mjm50cal wrote:
BubbaJon wrote:
Roadcaptain wrote:
anyone thought about hardening the races?
That's a complete disassembly mate - I think the goal is to avoid that sort of thing...
Yes, but if you already have to, then harden them prior to install. I don't know if they would warp or distort or change dimensionally. I suppose it would depend on the type of steal it is. Someone better than me would know.
Ideally we should start looking out for a higher standard of the same bearing. I have to believe about 90% of all bearings (either Metric , or Inch) are all based upon Standard Engineering Practices. It is possible to obtain a bearing of say: 2.00 O/Dia X 0.750 I/Dia X 0.500 thick manufactured to a variety of quality levels. IE Lawnmower level, Automobile level, and also Aerospace level. Obviously virtually no quality control at the Lawnmower level, but a tremendous amount up at the Aerospace level.
Now, I haven't personally looked at these particular bearings (and hope I never have to!) but It seems that [i]Due to the recurring incidence of failure the 'Good Offices' of Piaggio deemed it good business to employ the services of that company which put in the lowest bid for the bearing order. Then, as happens so very frequently, the 'low bidder' finds they 'bit off more than they could chew' so,the smart buggers that they are sourced the job out to some poor 3rd. or 4th world company to produce.
Result may well be that some wee blokey in China suddenly afflicted with cold feet because of the low price, sub contracted the job out to somebodies cousin in some Hinterland that doesn't even show on any map, and we pay the price!!!
I would like to be proven wrong in this case. But 'I hae me doobts!

Anyway, enough prattle. Should anyone have the sizes, and all identity markings for these tapered bearings perhaps we could conduct our own search through the myriad catologues that exist out there for a bearing of acceptable quality

Cheers........r
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The better bearings are apparently readily available (and the latest post-Dec-2009 Piaggio ones should be I'm told) - the bugger is in the detail - you need the 'muck-deflector' bits as well.

Low-tech mods can overcome this though, as evidenced on this forum.
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reticulum you should team up with jimc and do a bearing install wiki. Looks like you have good pics.
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I have posted all the pictures on "how to do it" on a french website.
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next pics...enjoy
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Excellent description.
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jimc wrote:
AuldNick wrote:
Works every time
Sorry, I call bollocks.

It only, and can only, work if there is a tiny bit of air left in a system where the air can freely move upwards, and only after you very gently release that lever to allow the air to escape - and don't touch that brake lever for two minutes at least. Try the brakes straight away? Problem back.

All this idea achieves is to put some pressure on the air in the system so that big air bubbles may become smaller ones, and release themselves from the sidewalls and with some time migrate upwards. Any significant air in there - forget it. But, as you say, always worth a try, and free.

I'll also have to say it has never, ever, worked for me when I had a 'problem' air-lock in the lines.
I am NOT a mechi nor a techi I only employ them and I see most of the time served guys using this simple technique when most others fail incuding pressure systems. My guys are HD, Ducati, Yamaha, BMW and Honda time served.

Only trying to be helpfull.

Bollox indeed!
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One concern for safety. You should never hit a hardened bearing race with a hardened punch. There is signigicant potential for a piece to splinter off at high speed causing injury. Use a piece of brass or some other soft metal to hit the bearing race. I have had millwrights in an emergency room more than once for doing this. Never a pretty sight.
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True - always use the old bearings to help insert the new races - using a rubber hammer and/or a wood block.
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I wonder if this tool would have worked.
http://www.icetoolz.com/icetoolz/index_pro2.php?parent=55

Park Tools has a better one.
Its a crown race remover. It pulls the press fit bearing race off of bike forks.
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed    ⬇️
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Help!!... Where can i get the steering bearing parts from?
Roadcaptain wrote:
ordered parts today so will do this when I have time and maybe take piccies as i go
Hey Guys,

Firstly... thanks for all your help in the past from your posts! The one with the belt change saved me over a $1000 dollars - better in my pocket than the bike shop i think...

Anyways, i've got the dreaded notch problem with the steering bearings and my bike shop here in sleepy old South Australia wants to charge me $1500 for the replacement... ouch!

Being handy with the tools and a mech engineer by trade - i think i'll do it myself.. but i can't find anywhere i can buy the parts?

Can somebody point me in the right direction where i can buy them as half of the $1500 is just for the bearings which is ridiculous.

Thanks in advance
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Hi Mark.

I see it's your first post, so welcome.

Before you go to the trouble of pulling all the front end apart to replace the bearings, try this:

Short term fix for "notch"? - It works...

And get, or make, at least one lube bolt for the steering bearings.Member mjm50cal has had some made. See somewhere in this thread:

A modification to increment the live of the bearings sistem

Then, if all of that doesn't fix it and you need to get the bearings, see this post

Notch Bearing Part Numbers

Cheekythomas posted a photo about 1/2-way through with the bearing numbers, and they are the correct ones.

I buy all my bits from GileraSpares in the UK:

http://www.gileraspares.co.uk/

You can search by part number. They take a little over a week to get to OZ, and the parts are about 1/2 what I'd have to pay in Sydney.

Good luck.

Gonzo
UTC

Lurker
Fuoco 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2
Location: Australia
 
Lurker
Fuoco 500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2
Location: Australia
UTC quote
Hey GonzoB,

thanks for the welcome and your help. I'll give the quick fix a try first and then if need be go the rebuild.

Cheers
Mark
UTC

Member
MP3-250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9
Location: SE MI
 
Member
MP3-250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9
Location: SE MI
UTC quote
Roadcaptain wrote:
anyone thought about hardening the races?
Bearings and races are hardened and tempered at the manufacturer, provided they did their jobs correctly! (Chinese bearings, anyone??).
RAQces can be made of material such as SAE-4340 or other such alloy, and bearings of much harder higher-carbon 52100. In a bearing/load situatioon, one material MUST be harder than the other.
Ergo, the ball/roller/taper is harder than the races; resulting in "notches" when "dithering".

.
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