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I recently bought a 74 primavera body with various parts and am in the process of restoring and reassembling. I picked up a engine from a 50 special and am planning on running that in my primavera.

-Keep this in mind- I have limited knowledge of vespas, about three weeks into my scooter education.

What are the differences in the 50 special engine compared to the 125cc primavera? (other than the obvious) How far will I be from the Primavera 125 if I get a new 125cc piston/head and carb/exhaust for my 50 special?

I have found it impossible to find a battery side door for a late smallframe. Will I have to make my own?
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Here is the body.
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and the engine
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50 to 125 you need:

cyl kit*
cyl studs & hardware
125 shroud
crank
primary gearing


on the cyl kit, you need the complete deal-- including the head. and if you're going to get a kit you might as well bump it up and get a performance kit like a DR, athena or olympia.

on the primary a V90 or 100 sport or 125 should be fine

crank, the V50 electrics and flywheel are small taper, so you'll be fine with any small taper cranks. i'd recommend a mazz or something decent.

you'll also want to upgrade your intake/carb and exhaust. depending on what your budget is and what kit you are running you can go with stock 19/19 pieces or aftermarket and pretty much any pipe will work.

i have alot of used pieces and new parts to do conversion so hit me up if you need.

best,
-greasy
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The only difference between the 50 special engines and 125s is the crank, top end and cylinder studs. Everything else is basically the same. If you end up needing some stuff im selling off a lot of my smallframe parts, since I don't own one anymore. I have a 125 crank, cylinder studs and some other bits, instead of getting a normal 125 cylinder id reccomend the DR135 kit, its a modest boost in power, bolts right on and is pretty close to stock. You'll need a different exhaust when upgrading from the 50 top end as well. Most people go for the polini "kidney" exhaust, its cheap and effective.

I have a new old stock battery door, $200 and its yours. They are pretty much impossible to find. Mine has never been used.
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Haha, grease and I mustve been channeling eachother, we posted at the same time.
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lol b, i was just gonna pimp your parts.

nick, brandon has a couple of used cranks at very reasonable prices.

the cyl studs & hardware are difficult to source so i'd take him up on that, too.

if you need a shroud i've got one, as well as several pipes and intakes-- stock 19/19 and yes, i've got a polini/leo vince kidney...

oh, and i'm in los angeles if that helps.

-g
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I was told by the guy who sold me the engine just most of the same info. Really needed to double check. Being that I am clueless. Thanks.

So are the engine cases the same for all 70's smallframes?

How much am I looking at for the complete 125 or 135 upgrade? (carb,crank,shroud,piston,rings,hardware,etc.)

I have only found one other person with the battery door and he also wants $200 for his. but its not new. It really hurts to have to pay $200 for that small piece of metal. Its like the Mickey Mantle rookie card of smallframe parts.

I have to think about it and get 200 dollars.

I am about $1300 in and thinking I have to put another $3-400 more into her before she's done (plus the engine work). So much for making any profit when I decide to sell.


What are the average max speeds for the various set ups available for this engine? I would like to be able to cruise at around 50.

Is there a bolt on kit that I could get to make this happen? I guess I don't have to go all the way to 125cc if a 105cc will get the job done with the right combo of carb/pipe
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How about $36
http://yhst-69058343476289.stores.yahoo.net/chassismore.html
Unless I am getting the model wrong...
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They have the correct item listed in that section but, there is no price listed. I contacted them last night and they don't have any in stock.

this is what I am looking for: http://yhst-69058343476289.stores.yahoo.net/dobasilasm.html

The guy at firstkick told me to contact paul at scooterlounge who might have one for around 200.
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battery side doors are rare as rocking horse shit.

a solid door for 200 clams is a good deal.

hell, i once bought an entire bike just to get a door and then sold the POS the next day.

best,
-greasy
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Nick84 wrote:
I was told by the guy who sold me the engine just most of the same info. Really needed to double check. Being that I am clueless. Thanks.

So are the engine cases the same for all 70's smallframes?
pretty much, yes. as long as you're post 66 and pre-PK (80's) then it's all gravy baby.
Quote:
How much am I looking at for the complete 125 or 135 upgrade? (carb,crank,shroud,piston,rings,hardware,etc.)
speed costs money, how fast do you want to go... you could easily drop 2500~3000 on a motor done right; or part with an easy 1500 on bolt on bullshit that doesn't work worth a dammn; or shell out 500 bux for a coupla key items and snap up some tasty used stuff and have something that is pretty decent.

at the end of the day it all depends on who you know, where and how you spend your money, what decisions you make along the way and who you bribe with beer and tacos.

i'd say figure on spending at least 700 for parts new & used and then kick a coupla bux for somebody to do the stuff that's easy to fuck up-- snapping in the bearings and seals, shimming the gearbox, checking and setting up the top end, etx. while you do the heavy lifting-- cleaning the motor, installing/building as much as you can.

oh, and that's just the motor.
Quote:
I am about $1300 in and thinking I have to put another $3-400 more into her before she's done (plus the engine work). So much for making any profit when I decide to sell.
one word of sage advice-- don't ever think about resale. i mean, maybe with something that's rare and desireable-- SS90, SS180, GS, Rally but with a dirty moustache 70's smallie... you'll never get back what you put into them.

oh, and one more word-- don't even think about putting those fugly signals back on! ditch those things pronto!
Quote:
What are the average max speeds for the various set ups available for this engine? I would like to be able to cruise at around 50.
with a 19/19 carb, a bananna or sport pipe and a 125 stock top end you may be able to hit 50, but more than likely you'll cruise at 40ish.
(this assumes V90 gearing)
up that to a DR125 or similar kit and keep the rest and that'll be an easy 50 cruising speed.

however, your question is kind of open-ended. there is everything avail for the small frame from 80+mph screamer to 35mph putt-putt.
Quote:
Is there a bolt on kit that I could get to make this happen? I guess I don't have to go all the way to 125cc if a 105cc will get the job done with the right combo of carb/pipe
while you could go with a 75 or a 105 kit, you'll still need the pipe and carb. but ultimately, it's the gearing that limits what you'll be able to achieve. granted a 105 with the right pipe and carb will hustle to 50, but you're at the absolute limit there. the technical term is "screaming it's nuts off".

best,
-greasy
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thank you greasy. Lots of good, much needed info.

I will study this and respond when sober in the morning.
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dirty moustache 70's smallie... ouch.

It will be awesome. It will.

AND... I happen to be growing a particularly dirty mustache myself so I take no offense.
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Nick84 wrote:
dirty moustache 70's smallie... ouch.

It will be awesome. It will.

AND... I happen to be growing a particularly dirty mustache myself so I take no offense.
don't get butt hurt, i've had several myself. hell i've got two awful frames hanging about.

now i have the ugly sister with the moustache-- PK125

it's like a smallie and a P had an ugly baby. the kinda face only a mother could love, and then only on payday!

best,
-greasy
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theres a lot of places you can save some cash when hunting for parts, with people like me and greaster for example, the only thing i wont part with cheaply is the door, only because thats what it cost me.

i have 125 cranks for 75, and id sell you the cylinder studs and hardware for a tenner, you can probably score good deals off greasee too. honestly a good mild tune is perfect, you dont have to dump a ton of money into it and you get a great rideable bike with basically stock parts. when you start doing the malossi 135 kits, then you have to do the clutch stuff which gets expensive for something that actually works worth a shit, then the big carb set up, then the $500 exhaust ect, smallframes can be a blast. but if youre just using it in the city as a daily rider, a DR135, 19mm carb, and either the polini kidney pipe or et3 "banana" pipe is a good set up, i used to have a whole set of primaries thatd be great in that bike, but sold those off, i do know where you can get more however that are new for probably less then $100.

and one thing youll learn is you hardly never get a return on your investment with old scooters, its more about having fun and the labor of love then making a buck, sometimes with the deisrable bikes you can flip, or if you get a good deal on a runner you can make some money back, but when you build something up you always lose money. i just sold my smallframe with a mild tune and probably lost $500. but my friend now has a cool scooter i built, and hes happy, and i have some money back in my pocket to throw at another bike for myself.
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you're welcome
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Greasy - Don't worry I am not butt hurt.

Thanks for the help. Definitely helped make up my mind. I will be going some where down the middle.

I am working on all the major things that need to get done other than motor work right now. Trying to get a game plan together for when I am ready to move onto the engine.

I still need to get.

Speedo
Headlight assem.
Rear Light assem.
Emblem & Badge
Legshield trim
Seat cover
fender crest
floor rail kit
tool box

and paint the damn thing.

I have never ridden a vespa or scooter. I bought this thing as parts, knowing nothing about it. Now here I am... with a bunch of parts.

Brandon, Greasy - probably will be getting ahold of you shortly, once I get this thing put together.

that px125 is ugly.
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greasy125 wrote:
Nick84 wrote:
dirty moustache 70's smallie... ouch.

It will be awesome. It will.

AND... I happen to be growing a particularly dirty mustache myself so I take no offense.
don't get butt hurt, i've had several myself. hell i've got two awful frames hanging about.

now i have the ugly sister with the moustache-- PK125

it's like a smallie and a P had an ugly baby. the kinda face only a mother could love, and then only on payday!

best,
-greasy
HEY HEY!!! Take it easy on the PK alright?! Razz emoticon
Have you not seen anything more beautiful in your life?
Have you not seen anything more beautiful in your life?
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not to be a know it all, cause i'm not

jason, that is a etS not a pk(ets=vary rare)

the pk125(brick) replaced the et3 and primevera 125's(smoothys)

the p125ets is the same motor as a pk BUT the crank is longer or larger and the porting slightly more agressive Nerd emoticon

greasy?????
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jimmyb865 wrote:
not to be a know it all, cause i'm not

jason, that is a etS not a pk(ets=vary rare)

the pk125(brick) replaced the et3 and primevera 125's(smoothys)

the p125ets is the same motor as a pk BUT the crank is longer or larger and the porting slightly more agressive Nerd emoticon

greasy?????
E- all of the above

bigger, beefier crank, different flyside bearing, better more aggresive porting, better exhaust, 20/20 phb carb...

a factory hotrod...

i want one in blue...

best,
-greasy
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tech info on 125 hp

et3-6

pk-6.8

ets-8.5

t5-11

hey aron, does E mean wrong or excellent
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The PK125 ETS is STILL a PK. It's like the T5's of PK's no? Razz emoticon

http://www.scooterhelp.com/scooters/VMS1T.pk125ets.html
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VLBJS1 wrote:
The PK125 ETS is STILL a PK. It's like the T5's of PK's no? Razz emoticon

http://www.scooterhelp.com/scooters/VMS1T.pk125ets.html
technically it it called a p125ets and a pk125

different, don't know why the lettering but that is the scoop

check out vespafasination.com

http://www.vespafascination.com/gallery/misc_pic/htm/f_pics.htm
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greasy125 wrote:
bigger, beefier crank, different flyside bearing, better more aggresive porting, better exhaust, 20/20 phb carb...

a factory hotrod...

i want one in blue...

best,
-greasy
Blue would be sick. Only 4000 were produced. Have you ever seen one in the flesh?
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supposedly the ETS engines were handbuilt, also if you find a front photo the bars have a slight drop to them, its kind of the 90ss of the 80s, i know where 3 of them are, probably for sale in pieces, there a few here in TX running around too. i know someone in austin has one, ive seen him around, i think theres one in san antonio too. definatly the best looking PK they did. reportedly would hit 70ish stock.
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jimmyb865 wrote:
tech info on 125 hp

et3-6

pk-6.8

ets-8.5

t5-11

hey aron, does E mean wrong or excellent
i'm simply blown away by the jump in hp straight from factory
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jimmy, your brick/smoothy descriptions have caught on. soon, they will be industry standard.
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brandonpx wrote:
supposedly the ETS engines were handbuilt, also if you find a front photo the bars have a slight drop to them, its kind of the 90ss of the 80s, i know where 3 of them are, probably for sale in pieces, there a few here in TX running around too. i know someone in austin has one, ive seen him around, i think theres one in san antonio too. definatly the best looking PK they did. reportedly would hit 70ish stock.
Thanks for the insight. 70mph stock...
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I am trying to get this engine running, The wiring doesn't match up. I expected so much (being that I have a vma2 and a 50 special engine), but the wires coming out of the flywheel don't match the colors on the 50 special wiring chart. I do have a 50 special engine (for sure). I am wondering if aftermarket stators have different color coding?

The wires coming from my stator are green, yellow, beige and black and I have the normal Primavera wiring harness. Does anyone know of a link of that can help clear up what color goes to what other color.


One more question; Has anyone used the "Duplicolor Paint Shop" paints on a vespa? I would love to see some photos.

I am thinking of painting the thing silver. I would like to know the stock colors produced in '74. Was there a silver Primavera?

The original color was some kind of blue.
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Nick84 wrote:
One more question; Has anyone used the "Duplicolor Paint Shop" paints on a vespa? I would love to see some photos.
I did, it came out looking ok (and could have looked even better if I was more meticulous). BUT - I've found it chips and flakes off like nobody's business. I would not recommend Duplicolor, and searches on Google have shown similar opinions on various car forums and the like. It looks good, it's cheap, but it doesn't last (and yes, I followed the hardening times and such).

I'll be needing to repaint my P in a couple of years at this rate

My 1980 P200E project

- farther down in the thread you can see my paint work. The lighting and camera flash is a little inconsistent across photos. The best pic is probably the "pretty much done" reassembled scoot at the end. All the red is duplicolor, plus my repaint of the floorboards shown.
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Thanks for the link.

Did you use their clear coat? Or just the color coat?

I have also heard some bad things about duplicolor, just trying to get other peoples opinions.

How much paint is required to paint a vespa?
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Nick84 wrote:
Thanks for the link.

Did you use their clear coat? Or just the color coat?

I have also heard some bad things about duplicolor, just trying to get other peoples opinions.

How much paint is required to paint a vespa?
I did clearcoat as well yes. Maybe hard to see in the pictures. It takes a lot of paint, actually... I can't remember how many cans I used. I mean, it's VERY cheap compared to getting it done professionally, but it will take a lot of cans. A search here will turn up a number of threads in NSM about paiting your scoot, including how to use housepaint for the job.

But yeah, my personal vote is don't use duplicolor
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Almost done painting the vespa.

Couple more coats of paint and some coats of clear, then she is ready to be put together.

I am happy with the outcome so far.
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Nice work. That frame looks like it's in great shape.
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Thanks.

It was a lot of work. A lot of work.

Definitely would have been better off taking it somewhere and paying to have it painted. All the odds and ends and crap ended up costing me more than a pro job would've cost.

I just want to ride this stupid thing.
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That's looking really good. That frame is very straight for its age.

Keep the pics coming when the clears on, that will be a nice shiny thing.
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Nick84 wrote:
Thanks.

It was a lot of work. A lot of work.

Definitely would have been better off taking it somewhere and paying to have it painted. All the odds and ends and crap ended up costing me more than a pro job would've cost.

I just want to ride this stupid thing.
itll feel totaly different when its done
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UTC quote
The painting will commence with arrival of my next unemployment check. I am in limbo.

This is frustrating.

The frame does not have a title. -(I am sure this has been covered somewhere on this forum)-, I am just too lazy to search. What do I need to do to get this thing street legal when its finished?

Will the lack of turn signals give me any trouble in CA with a '74?
They switched in 1973 right?
@marcusdarling avatar
UTC

Hooked
T5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 302
Location: Los Angeles
 
Hooked
@marcusdarling avatar
T5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 302
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
Hay mate,

you shouldn't have any trouble registering it. You can tell them it's a damn '63 if it makes you feel better. They have no idea. Just tell them you bought it at a yard sale. Also make up a bill of sale with all the "correct" info - namely frame + motor number.

Go to lincoln heights DMV.

Go see greasy if you need any good used engine bits. I was over there today with my primavera, he's got a few boxes full of good smally stuff.

DMV will charge you ~$125 for a new title plus regular reg fees. Bike doesn't have to be running, just bring it in on a truck.

Good luck
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