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@atlgts avatar
UTC

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GTS 250 i.e. "Silver Bullet"
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UTC quote
So I was on my way home from work this afternoon, and I hit a small bump in the road,a nd all of a sudden, my GTS sounded like a Harley. The engine light went on immediately, so my first thought was that one of the bolts that attaches the exhaust header pipe to the cylinder head snapped off.

Drove the final 1 mile home gingerly, and immediately inspected. Fortunately not the bolt, but the actual header pipe snapped off No real rust, I think it just had a bas spot in teh steel, and weakened over time, and eventually just gave out.

I then tried to remove the exhaust, so that I could get the header pipe off, but whoever attached the Leo Vince pipe used about 200lb/in of torque to tighten the bolts. I got two of them loose, and then stripped out the bottom one - not good. So out comes the hacksaw. I cut off the head of the cap screw, and once the mounting plate was off, I removed the O2 sensor (I know it has a proper name, but I can't remember it now), and the exhaust came free. Got the header pipe nuts off by looking through the battery compartment, and the whole exhaust assmebly is now off.

This does explain a few things i noticed while riding the last few weeks, though:
1. Acceleration was bad
2. Fuel consumption went up (i.e. got worse)
3. No/little mid-range power the last few weeks

Phoned my Vespa delaser to see if they had a replacement part in stock - no luck. It's going to take 10 days to get a new one (internet shopping, here I come). The workshop manager there said he had never even hear of this happening.

Here is a pic of the exhaust header pipe that broke. I'll do a reassembly article of the put-back, if anyone is interested.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
UTC

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
How deep was the pothole that you hit? I wonder if you also may have bent a wheel?
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@atlgts avatar
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Hooked
GTS 250 i.e. "Silver Bullet"
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UTC quote
No pothole, just a small bump in the road. Hardly even noticed it.
UTC

The Host with the Toast
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The Host with the Toast
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UTC quote
Snapshot05 has one just like it.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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UTC quote
Your dealer (deaf bloke obviously) may have never heard of it, but it happenened to me on my X9 250 in 2005 (and to many others). And yes, roads that promote resonant vibration are often the primary trigger.

"never heard of it" What a tit.
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@atlgts avatar
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UTC quote
That was my initial reaction... And the fact that he's only able to get the spare part in in 10 days is why I'm going to be shopping online for this specific part...
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Hooked
Red 2009 GTS, 2008 Majesty, 2007 People S 200
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UTC quote
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Is there any reason why the pipe couldn't or shouldn't be welded back together? That might be better than waiting 10 days.

Many on MV (thanks!) have suggested that copper grease be used on the muffler and a few other nuts and bolts. IMHO this should be part of the 600 mile service.
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UTC quote
FFS, copper grease has nothing to do with this. It's a stress fracture in the SS downpipe because the exhaust clamp over the graphite collar was over-tightened by some monkey. These things work really, really well and last for ages if they are *understood* - or even ackmowledged as existing!

So some old geezer (could have been me...) who's done nothing but Mustangs in the past now works on these pernickety beasts? Not going to work...
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@atlgts avatar
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UTC quote
Welding is not really an option for me (no access to a welder).

Seems like Motorsport Scooters is the best option at this point... $146 before shipping. Damn, I was hoping this wouldn't be quite this expensive...

Such is life, I guess...
@harvey avatar
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2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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UTC quote
There's been a few threads about the Leo Vince cracking header pipes
F-ing Leo Vince exhaust - broke my second header
Best suggestion is to be really careful lining up the muffler/pipe to avoid stress fractures.
The stock system has it's weak point too, so it's a case of choosing your poison.
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UTC quote
Or, you can replace the lot with a PM Tuning PM68- its a complete system including the header (if you can get it stateside, that is)

Then again, you will sound like a Harley with a PM pipe!
UTC

Molto Verboso
Honda Foresight 250
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
A PM pipe could also result in a significant lightening of your wallet from what I've seen, but I suppose none of these damned exhausts are cheap really.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber
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eeeee bip
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UTC quote
Grey/Gray
Bill says keep it standard.

Is it me or is that engine burning a bit lean ?
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@atlgts avatar
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UTC quote
It probably was running a bit lean from when the pipe cracked until it finally broke off. Under normal circumstances the EFI O2 sensor should take care of that, though.
@karmann avatar
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UTC quote
atlgts - the reason Scooter Superstore never heard of it happening is because it almost always happens in combination with LV pipes and there aren't many people running them here in Atlanta. Read the thread linked earlier or the "Official LV Pipe" thread and you will see numerous incidents of this happening (including my own). All it took was once for me and I put the stock pipe back on (after having it ceramic coated).

If you decide to keep the LV on your GTS, try having the head pipe welded up at a muffler shop. It will be a lot cheaper than a new one.
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UTC quote
Thanks Karmann - any suggestions on a decent muffler shop that can do the welding?
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UTC quote
jimc wrote:
It's a stress fracture in the SS downpipe because the exhaust clamp over the graphite collar was over-tightened by some monkey. These things work really, really well and last for ages if they are *understood* - or even ackmowledged as existing!
To me, this looks like a classic off-angle downpipe break to me, caused by imperfect alignment of the LV components. There are three main components in this setup: the can, the intermediate pipe, and the stock down pipe. The intermediate pipe and the stock down pipe, in particular, have to have the correct rotation between them so as to go perfectly straight into the can. Any slight angle will cause pressure on the components, and after repeated cycles of heating and cooling, the stock down pipe typically breaks first.
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@atlgts avatar
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UTC quote
Let me ask a stupid question (because I can't find the installation instructions anywhere):
I know there is a graphite collar that fits in the standard exhaust. Is this collar also required for the LV pipe? There isn't (wasn't) one on the current configuration, but a few people have mentioned it, so IDK...

Sorry for the stupid question...
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UTC quote
atlgts wrote:
Let me ask a stupid question (because I can't find the installation instructions anywhere):
I know there is a graphite collar that fits in the standard exhaust. Is this collar also required for the LV pipe? There isn't (wasn't) one on the current configuration, but a few people have mentioned it, so IDK...
Is it required? Yes. Does the LV use it? No. And that's the problem. The LV is a rigid setup. It doesn't have the graphite collar and slip joint that allows for vibration, or expansion/contraction.
Quote:
any suggestions on a decent muffler shop that can do the welding?
No, but most any shop should be able to handle it. Its especially easy for them since the part is off the vehicle. It should only take a few minutes.
⚠️ Last edited by Karmann on UTC; edited 1 time
@jimc avatar
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@jimc avatar
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UTC quote
That was just me missing your mention of Leo Vince - I had to do lots of horizontal scrolling to read your OP. I had assumed a stock exhaust, sorry.
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UTC quote
Ahhh, cool. Thanks Jim. Sorry about the big pic. I'll make them smaller next time...
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UTC quote
Karmann wrote:
Is it required? Yes. Does the LV use it? No. And that's the problem. The LV is a rigid setup. It doesn't have the graphite collar and slip joint that allows for vibration, or expansion/contraction.
So I'm wondering if it isn't possible to put a 1/8" thick heat-proof rubber gasket in between the flange and the engine to help dampen the vibrations. Surely that would help... Thoughts?
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UTC quote
atlgts wrote:
So I'm wondering if it isn't possible to put a 1/8" thick heat-proof rubber gasket in between the flange and the engine to help dampen the vibrations. Surely that would help... Thoughts?
Probably not. What you need is a slip joint between the head pipe and muffler, not between the head pipe and engine. It needs to allow for movement of the two pieces where they join.
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2016 Honda NC750XD, 2007 GTS (sold),
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UTC quote
There was some previous mention of welding in a section of flexible exhaust pipe:
Head pipe broke !!!
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GTS 300
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UTC quote
Correction...
Actually, I would prefer the mellow roar/rumble sound of a hog to the sound of my PM68. It is not overly loud, it just isn't a good sound--sorta like a chinese scooter with a hole in the muffler.

The PM68 was a little bit more $$ than the others, but I think it was probably worth it.


>>Or, you can replace the lot with a PM Tuning PM68- its a complete system including the header. Then again, you will sound like a Harley with a PM pipe!

>>A PM pipe could also result in a significant lightening of your wallet from what I've seen, but I suppose none of these damned exhausts are cheap really.
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@atlgts avatar
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Hooked
GTS 250 i.e. "Silver Bullet"
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UTC quote
This has me thinking now...

What about replacing the middle section of the LV pipe with a piece of flexible exhaust tubing? I mean, there is a joint at the base of the muffler part of the LV Exhaust that simply clamps on, and then there is the dreaded connection with the header pipe. Will this significantly reduce performance, even if you keep the diameter the same? This should solve the probelm, no?

I'm thinking something like this:
http://www.jcwhitney.com/flexible-exhaust-tubing/p2006251.jcwx?TID=8014524FT2&utm_source=Google_Product_Search&utm_medium=CSE&utm_content=product-16251G&zmam=15972153&zmas=18&zmac=129&zmap=16251G

From a support perspective, I think the 3 bolts that attached the hanger bracket to the exhaust should be sufficient to carry the weight of the exhaust, but it might need another support point...
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@atlgts avatar
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Hooked
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@atlgts avatar
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UTC quote
Or what about something like this?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC

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UTC quote
kewl
@karmann avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
Worth a shot I guess. You may have a hard time finding the correct diameter though, as most of the stuff like that is sized for automotive exhausts.
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@atlgts avatar
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Hooked
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UTC quote
I just got the header pipe welded up at the local Midas - $40... Doesn't look too bad, and I'll see how it runs. I've got a new one on order, so this is probably only a temporary fix. I'm not expecting it to last very long, but I thought its worth the $40 and 20 minutes it took to at least try it. I'm still thinking of experimenting with the flexible hose option, if I can find one that fits.
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@atlgts avatar
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Hooked
GTS 250 i.e. "Silver Bullet"
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UTC quote
I just reinstalled the header pipe and the Leo Vince. That header pipe is a real bitch to get tightened down properly. Don't even think of attempting it if you don't have a socket with a swivel head...

Took me almost an hour to get the header pipe back on, and only about 5 minutes for the rest.

Can't start the scoot now to see/hear how it runs (it's 1:55 am, and my wife would kill me ). I'll start 'er up first thing tomorrow, and go for a wee test run.
@benito avatar
UTC

Moderator
2010 Dragon Red GTS 300 Super, 2018 Grigio Titanio Piaggio Liberty S 150
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Location: Toronto, Canada, Fort Lauderdale, Florida
 
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@benito avatar
2010 Dragon Red GTS 300 Super, 2018 Grigio Titanio Piaggio Liberty S 150
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UTC quote
Good to hear about the progress you've made.
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