Modern Vespa

How do they ride? I'm thinking of purchasing a set by tomorrow and can't decide between them (Heidenau K66) or the Michelin City Grip's. By the way they are for my GT.

Your input greatly appreciated.

I like the K66's, but preferably for wet/cold weather or for riding on exceptionally bad roads (dirt/gravel/slippery/etc.) For dry hot weather like you'll probably be having for the next several months in SoCal, I'd recommend K61's instead. They'll last longer and grip better in the summer.

Thanks for the quick response bagel. I was contemplating the K61 also, just for that reason.

We have a K66 on the rear of a GTS. It presently has 3k miles on it and shows almost no wear. I also just installed one on the rear of my GTV last weekend. I like this tire for several reasons:
*It appears that we'll be able to easily get over 6k miles from it (the original Sava lasted for 2800 miles on our GTS and 2400 on the GTV before they were very worn)
*Although we don't ride in the rain, we ride on roads quite often that are wet because we ride a lot in the mountains. It's not unusual for streams to be overflowing onto the roads or for the roads to be wet from heavy dew in the morning or stray rain showers. The K66 gives you a very good feeling of stability when the road is wet.
*Even when the roads are perfectly dry, the K66 gives you a very solid feeling of stability.
I've not had to replace a front tire but when I do, I'll go with Heidenau. I never heard of these tires until I joined this forum but I've become a real fan of theirs. Bagel has ridden with both the K66 and the K61 so he has more experience with Heidenau than myself so assess whether you will frequently ride on wet roads and make your decision. You can't go wrong with either of the two models.

Thanks XLR8.

Well said, XLR8, I agree wholeheartedly.

My rear K66 has 6,000 miles (GTS250) and it looks about 2/3 done. I expect 8-10,000 miles out of it.

I do not have the luxury of Southern California weather, but the K66s have performed beautifully in all weathers, stable, sticky, predictable and secure.

Personally, the only reason I'd consider any other tires on my Vespa is if the K66 becomes unavailable in the US.

Just my personal opinion.

P.

Hi Jorge - Once again it seems I am the lone dissenter. I rode on a set of K66LTs on a GTS for a day. It was the worst ride ever (and not just because I was on the 5). I got pushed around in the rain grooves more than on any other tire including Savas. I took them off the scoot the day after I got home. My choice for the next set will be the new Michelins.

Having said that, I must acknowledge Bagel's continuing support for this brand that I detest. He's a better rider and has more experience than I, both on the road and with various scooters and tires. His loyalty to Heidenau makes me wonder if I just got a bad set. Good luck with your decision.


Love your new avatar, by the way!

I admit that the K66's can wobble a bit on rain grooves, but I haven't found them to be unbearable. I'm surprised that you found them to be worse than Savas on the raingrooves ks - I assume you mean the stock Savas? The K66's have larger chunks of rubber in the tread which are not placed in nearly as linear a fashion as the tread on the Savas and I found them to be much more well behaved. However, the behavior of any tire on rain grooves also depends as much on the size of the rain grooves as it does on the tread pattern of the tire; maybe your rain grooves down south are wider than the grooves we have here in the Bay area?

In any event, my #1 preference is the K61, which has a completely different tread pattern which produces almost no wobble at all on rain grooves. Please try a set of those before you give up on Heidenau, ks... they're much more stable and sticker than Michelins and I think you'll like them. Just don't push them too hard for the first 100 miles or so while they're wearing in, and gradually work off the chicken strips on the twisties, then they'll reach their full grip potential and provide you with excellent handling for thousands of miles!

I just ordered a K66 myself, just waiting for it to get here

Forgot about "rain grooves". Here in New England where it rains A LOT (4 seasons Mud, Ice, Mud, Flies) we don't have them. Californians and Southwesterners may prefer something else, but in the Northeast I still say K66 all the way.

P

Why not the Pirelli GTS23 (front) and GTS 24 (rear)? They were stock on my GTS 250 Super. Rear one lasted 6K miles and the front one is still on with 9K+ miles and plenty of tread left. The Pirellis are $20 less each than the Heidenau's and they are also listed as having great rain handling capacity. Thoughts?

I had the Pirelli on my GTS, and they were really nice. I would buy them if I rode dry-ish roads all of the time. I switched to K66 while the Pirelli were still fresh so as to compare them. I was shocked how different the tires were. The K66 gave great stability to the scooter in all conditions and speeds, at the expense of that nice flick-a-bility that we enjoy in scooters. The K66 really slow down the left/right transitions. It takes getting used to.

OTOH, I put the K66 on because it is really wet here much of the year. For SoCal the K66 is likely not the right tire. Think K61, or Pirelli.

Yup, that's my recommendation... K66 for the cold and wet, K61 for the hot and dry. The Pirelli GTS are the best stock tires Vespa has ever offered and they're nice and grippy, but they're fairly soft tires and they will get chewed up quickly in hot weather. My rear only lasted 3300 miles over last summer, and it was bald in the center by the time I replaced it with a K61. My front only lasted a little over 5000 miles, but that's because a section of the tread started to separate!

For the record, I believe the reason why we have rain grooves here in CA is because we normally get rain infrequently and as a result, people freak out when it rains and completely forget how to drive - not that many here know how to drive very well in the first place. If it weren't for the rain grooves, people would constantly lock up their brakes and hydroplane into a gigantic clusterscrew of automotive wreckage on every highway... ok, well they would a lot more than they already do!

I agree completely. I just put a set of K61's on my GT and I like them a lot. I got 140/70 in the back and 130/70 in the front. It was a little weird at first, coming from a set of Michelin Pilot City 130/70 rear and 120/70 front. because the Heidenau's really lean into those turns. They grip great though. The larger size makes the scooter feel a lot more 'planted' on the ground. Freeway riding feels more surefooted than before. I like the Michelins just fine, but I wanted to try something different and these were consistently praised and recommended. The bigger tires look better on the bike too, IMHO. Good luck with your decision.
Regards,
FireLeo