Modern Vespa

oke, i would like to ask about exhaust, i have a Super '69 with 24/24 carburetor, and thinking about getting an aftermarket exhaust for it. im assuming just like a car, you wouldnt get much of performance gain in terms of hp. however it would ease the flow of exhaust out of the chamber, would you agree?

Second, i see a lot of people like the Sito+ exhaust. Anyone care to share why they like it?

Third, its rather hard to get my hands on a Sito+, however i could get a Polini and Malossi exhaust. Anyone has any experience with them?

thanks in advance

Well, it won't work like it does on a car uness you have a two stroke saab or some old east european trabant with a two stroke engine:
On a 2 stroke, the right exhaust can increase your hp considerably.

A sito+ would work nicely, but the super has small wheels, and you might have trouble with the sito+ touching the ground on left hand turns.

The polini is noisy (abit like the car in the video). You loose power in the usable revs in the middle and gain a teeny bit of power on top. If you can get hold of a simonini exhaust, its not too bad. Still a noisemaker, but way better than the polini.

If you can get hold of an original PX125 exhaust, that should help quite a bit. Performance is in between the original super exhaust and the sito+

Other than that, a proper expansion chamber (like the ones JL makes) is among the best you can get. But then you'd sort of need a new cylinder as well to get the most out of it.

this is very interesting, as i do more and more research on two strokes, an exhaust really does make all the difference. i guess the expansion chamber is where it's at.

People are all about performance exhausts...

i dunno...i've been down the tuning road with a number of my bikes in the past, and i'm not going down it again. I used to run a full blown PM EVO expansion pipe on a Malossi P210 engine ... and then i had a PK125 that had a STUPID loud expansion chamber on it as well (i think it was Jim Lomas...another 350$+ pipe ).

I'm not doing it anymore. I prefer the sound ( or lack thereof ) of a stock exhaust. Expansion chambers just piss off the neighbors and let a big carb drink up all your fuel.

Sito + gives you some nice low-end torque, but doesn't add much to the top. It does change the exhaust note to a more "pock-pock-pock-pock" sound from the more subdued "putt-putt-putt" of the stock exhaust.

I'm done with all that stuff.... i'll just buy bikes with substantial sized engines to begin with and leave them stock. Keeps me from having to do constant seal changes on a fleet of bikes.

thanks for your input, Eric. im only doing it on the VBC, since the body has some rust spots, mostly on the license plate area (not structural). the body wouldn't get the whole rebuild for a while, so might as well have some fun with it for a while and put some personal touches on it. i totally respect your change of heart and go with the the preservation route. we need people like you to remind us of how or what this classic scooter is like.

i'll dig out some more research and figure out from there. in the mean time more input is greatly appreciate.

In this case, it just comes from being tired of doing bike MAINTENANCE. I love restoring bikes...i love picking them up cheap and fixing them up ....feeling like i got one more old bike back on the road and making someone happy.

What i don't like is a garage of my own scoots that don't run. When you start kitting your bike you start putting the wear parts under stress they weren't designed for, and you end up with your cases split more often than you want them to be.

Clutch baskets flare out, seals cook from the heat they're not designed for, cruciforms and gears wear faster, etc.


Is it any wonder that we can roll bikes out of barns that have sat for 30 or 40 years....bikes that the cases have never been split ... and all we have to do is put in some fresh gas and maybe clean the carb and they go? ( and likely go another 30-40 years without needing much)

And conversely, how many people do you know that have a kitted P200 or TS1 lambretta or tuned smallframe that's perpetually up on the bench because the piston seized again, or the massive carb isn't jetted right, or they've got another clutch side seal leak?

There's method to my madness.

I agree. These scoots have small fuel tanks to begin with, and
these mod's do suck up mucho fuel.


Rob

Never go on a long rally ride with a bunch of TS1 / RB-tuned lambrettas. Unless they're running long distance gas tanks you'll have to stop every 15 miles to fill up.

+1 Eric, I put a Sito plus with a one bigger up-jet in my P200. The mod was just to get it to breath better as you explained in the past. I'm happy to report no problems with it. And yes more umph ! up hills and in third gear as well. I recommend this Slight mod. to all 24/24 owners.
I have another Sito plus around here somewhere that I drilled the underneath hole up a bit so I could get it as close to the frame as possible on my Rally. After I break in the rebuild I will be popping it on, maybe by fall. (I hope)
Thanks again ! Eric for you vast Vespa wisdom..Brian

Hot Rod Al uses a term called "Super-Stock" ...which is basically just small mods that keep the bike running within the spec it was designed. An example would be his modded 24mm carb ( allowing you to continue to use autolube ), some minor porting on the stock jug / piston, Sito + ... that kind of stuff.

That's the max i'd go at this point.

On my wife's lambretta LI150 i put in the 175 piston, bored out the jug ... and run a 20mm carb instead of the 22...and the lambretta equiv. of the Sito+ exhaust. That's the only "kitted" bike in my posession right now, and i wouldn't even really consider that tuned.

i went from this to this and am so pleased with my descision

The standard ET3 banana pipe is the best smallie pipe IMHO. Nice choice, Jimmy.

lets be honest here, i never really into bikes, but always into cars. Got my license around 3 years ago. Never ridden any other bike than my Vespas. One day i woke up and thought that it wouldnt be that hard to learn and ride my dad's VBB that's been sitting in the garage....so off i went. i liked it, and so far dont plan on getting any other bike than scooters. I had a spinal disc herniation and got a surgery for it 6 years ago. this doesnt allow me to sit in a certain condition without causing some discomfort on my back.

"Super Stock" is where i want to be, i could get other 'speed fein' i need from a car where i feel more comfortable. Deep down i'm itching to get some 'work' done on my bike as i couldn't see them stock. i thought about putting a Pinasco 177 kit on the Super but decided it would be too much.

used to race this before the accident


now i sit on pitlane help managing our racing team.
our cars are the orange, yellow, red and green

what kind of exhaust is that on the bottom pic?

as eric mentioned, a stock sito et3 pipe

can order from motorsport san diego or sip in germany

the best 90 bucks i ever spent

Very nice JimmyB! I think it also looks better too since your scoot is OG.

easy ...... put a bigger tank on

may i know who own that white m3 now?

a very good friend of mine has it now.

i have put the Sito + on two of my bikes.
the first was the much loved handlebar frankenbike. i put a 20/20 carb from a LML engine (105 jet i think i ended up with) and i can tell you for sure it has Alot more power than before & the sound i LOVE ! people hear you coming -i think there is Safety factor there.

the other bike i put it on is my Sprint which i put an LML 150 in with a 24/24 carb and the Sito + exhaust. i just broke in the engine and i can say i also like the sound and power increase. i had a chance to ride with another bike with same engine but stock and i could leave him standing easy especially on hills.
although i am sure what Eric says is true i think maybe these minor mods might be worth it in what you gain vs decreased engine/seal life,

any way i know only my experience with these two bikes for what it is worth.

good luck whatever you do ~~~ the Falcon

thanks for the input guys, at the moment i'm leaning towards the malossi and the sito+. however, i dont know where i can get a sito+ here locally. i need to do some homework and figure out who carries that brand here.

IF you're going to go balls out with a malossi top end, you might as well go full on with carb + expansion chamber pipe.

Malossi's aren't top ends to be trifled with

im sorry i meant the malossi exhaust or the sito+ exhaust. i'm not going to do the top end. i've decided just to do a slight port and polish, my race cars mechanic do one hell of a job on pnps. it would be enough power for my liking and city riding.

if i were to do a top end, i'm leaning towards the pinasco 177kit that are readily available here (the malossi top end also available). both kits arent cheap, around US$400 or US$600 (with 28/28 or the 30/30 dellorto vertical carb and polini snorkel)

I've heard good things about the malossi pipe, i've gone from stock to a sito + and now to a left hand expansion pipe and to be honest i like all 3 about the same.

But as everyone is saying to get the most from an exhaust you'll be looking at kitting it.

it's all about the math


and some math can be very exspensive

well with two port u wont get a lot of power as u wish even with a expensive exhaust especially in a super 150, my hint is u find a danmotor stock exhaust that were used for excel nor px which were bigger then the stock exhaust in a super 150, the impact were the same with sito+ or mallosi.. my vbb used that and the respons are well enough



and the sound is smooth too

ps: 80's m3 were my fav after my w123 been defeated square fair in a free way, just never seen it in white before accept robert paul bodge m3

+1
I used that too on my blue veloce...
but the price more than $50 and hard to find now

+1, throws reliability out the window,imo, but I do dig the Sitos sound.
With a pipe its a bitch to ether change/adjust clutch cable or to change the rear tear, depending on which side pipe you choose.

Ive watched friends in the past try to dial them in, no thanks I just dont have the patients and id rather ride.

For some its fun but not for me.

i have a NOS px dan motor that i bought a while back, i thought about putting that in my VNB. maybe i'll put that on the super for now.

There are at least 3 white E30 M3s in Jakarta.

Robert Paul's is not bodge, its a the real deal. Its an ex BTCC M3 running 2.8L with a decked head. he's running an ex BTCC Nissan Primera now. His M3 was brought in from Aussie and it is in the U.S. now.

hyhy dont get mad at me mate, when i said robert paul m3 were a bodge it were nickname nor acronim among drag racer back in the late 90's the same as hery agung fairlady
and ur right with ur white m3 i just need to find one more, recently discoverd one in my neighbourhood that were build for super touring nor retro touring but it were yellow and another red one in classic car exhibition that were been sold

ps: and yes danmotor px exhaust is the right choice

yellow? hmm never heard of that one. the red one switch hands a lot is an EVOII, was my friend's Mr. J's. There's also another red one in BMW Tunas Tebet belongs to Mr. C's

The EVO II


Mr. C's

wow, i didnt know that the bimmer eunthiast were well organize guess there a bigger world out there then i imagine.. i wonder is the crazy dude that swap red 5 series vanos engine with hartge engine build completely in germany were one of ur friend..

thats a nic group u have there, make me jealousy as same with vespa, i dont bound by club but i do really like to hang out with people that have same interest with me

do u like fiat spyder? the yellow one i mention were now build in halim perdana kusuma area, at a speed garage that were specialist in tuning vintage cars, i saw lost of muscle cars recently too but the spider really blow my mind if u some how want to play vintage europe car u can ask folks there were u can hit on one and in my area its still cheap

At any club there are bound to have people that are annoying and there are some who you could get a lot of benefits from information and their knowledge. The BMW Car Club of Indonesia is a good bunch of people. we are mostly here at wwwdotbmwccidotcom/forum You should see the Mercedes Club, they are better organized than us lot.
there are a couple of Hartge swap motor in Jakarta, there's an E36 M3 with a Hartge built S50 motor. i've heard about that 5 series, but havent really seen it in person. I'm into all sorts of classic cars (european only), enough knowledge most but lacks in Fiats. The spyder is very similar to the Alfa Spyder if i recall. Would love to built an original 911 Porsches or a 964, but at the moment im not financially stable enough to play with them. The M3 was such a money pit that i had to let that go, maybe at some point in the future i will get some classic toys again.

there are only 7 people who are actually car collectors in Indonesia, if you see an awesome classic at some car show; they are mostly own by either one of those 7 guys. They have an amazing collection. Cars that would blow your mind away and can easily compete with the guys outside of the country. There's a guy who owns 4 garages with at least 100 classic european in Bandung and another guy in Jakarta who owns just about every classic Mercedes including a gulwing, W108 Pulman etc etc. They are all ended up at my friends shop to do their body work. the same place where i painted my white VBB. We have an overgrown of Ferraris today running around with F430 and F360, well those are new kids, they come and go and i dont consider them as a car enthusiast, they are only 'status' chaser.

so yeah it has some REAL hidden jewel we got here in this country and a lot of single brand fanatic people.

jealous? of my vespa? i have the most common type of vespa around. none of them are real collector's item. My VNB is a VNB5 not even the 'cepuk'. Don't be....im glad i have some rich friends and listening to their complains on their cars without actually going through with it....and still enjoy riding in it.

sweet...
nie, i am not jealousy in ur vespa (maybe in the way u restore ur bike) i am more jealousy in what u and ur friend done, racing with a expensive engine all my life i can only effort to buy w123'82 200 black head engine n/a as i cant effort to buy turbo and can only be 230kmh top speed without even touch a faster car then that (well in my eyes evo lan nor other japanese speedgoes car were never gave me the satisifed like euro cars especialy if u are like me that didnt effort to buy high permormance parts and play stock as hard as u can and be creative in the way u safe ur engine parts, brake and tyre but still want to race, the euro cars had that longer life in parts compare to japanese)

and i am still trying to find a pic of the red and yellow m3 guess i left it in my house, but the gulwing u mention i saw it many times and when it came to vintage cars i enjoy talk about it like all the vintage bike even thought my knowledge were poor (cause i didnt laid my hand to much so less knowledge i know)

now my project were a 74 vw bug that i trade with a '84 px150 so litelary i am back in 4 wheel world (after 8 years never had a 4 wheel again) eventhough mine is a slow car (wait until i had solex carb and some other parts) so when i race with u i'll e miles away behind u for sure

ps: ur right fiat and alfa spyder are basicly the same frame just diferent in the tail section and the front light and if u want a vintage posche in future try to find "the tree frogs" that were made in late 60, cant remember the type number but it still have the engine lay out like a vw karman ghia but still a pure boxer, i seen it once in the freeway from pantai indah kapuk racing with a testarosa

you know, its not always all about speed. there are many ways you can do to have fun other than blasting it at 200km/hr. i can tell you that i've only been up to 260km/hr a couple of time and drove pass 200km/hr 3 times. most of the time its only 120-140 im more interested in the engineering of a car and getting my lines right on the track beating the clock. im a geek i supposed.

btw a friend is picking up a Honda C70 tomorrow, that should be a fun little thing. I had a '66 Beetle convertible as a daily driver for a while after i sold my W123. No air con and leaky roof...its a joy however, i installed a ghetto fan on the dash A beetle should be a real fun project.

the tree frog? You mean a Porsche 356? My cousin had one of those, its also a fun little car.

is this a forum for vespas?or did i go to wrong forum ?

just to stay on point

Don't worry Mr. Falcon, some of us have a love for fast modifed cars and apply some of that knowledge to 10 HP scooters. Here is what gets driven when I need some adrenaline WHOOO HOOO !

Sweet. They look much better with out that rear wing though.

ok, i give in

i got to drive jason preistly's cosgrove around the studio lot one day

bad a-- brodda