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mjm50cal wrote:
Ordered 50 more bolts. They'll be here next week.
If there are some still available I'd like to pick up a set.
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⚠️ Last edited by JTbme on UTC; edited 1 time
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Just did the mod on Friday. Well it's not a placebo effect you can HEAR the difference especially when going over small continuous bumps. No metallic sound from the front suspension, totally worth it!
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i don't wanna be a partypooper but did allmost the same mod, and my bearings are again gone after 10000 miles / 16.000km


The factory set installed to tide and with no grease at all, managed to go over 14000 miles
the newly installed with a lot of grease only 10000 miles

in a couple of week i get the second set in
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crap...
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Maksor, How could greasing them actually make them worse?? Do you know if your mechanic did them before to Piaggio specs? Or the specs that Jimc recommends?? Sorry to hear this.
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Maksor, It appears you must have some other issues that need looking into, and the application of grease isn't one of them.

Good luck and keep us posted with your findings.



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he looked at the specs here and filled the whole thing with grease and 16.000 km or 10.000 miles later they are gone

it could be that mine goes a littlebit faster then stock cruzing speed for me is between 90 and a 100 miles/h on the freeway and in the cities we got lots of taffic bumbs to slow you
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I love my MP3, but not enough to rebuild these front ends every 10,000 or so.
Hope yours is an exception to the rule, and you have better luck this go round.
Greasing then this time? Setting them again to JImc's specs, or Piaggios?
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i think i try Piaggio settings the lasted longer with out any grease and this time with grease
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Unless you had sandy grease, it's not the grease!
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Maksor wrote:
i think i try Piaggio settings the lasted longer with out any grease and this time with grease
Don't wish to be impolite or to appear like a 'Know-it-all' , but I really think you should have a chat or two with several different mechanics on the pros and cons of applying grease to these bearings.


Good luck.



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i don't think so he is very good other piaggiodealer mechanics won't experiment with different methods, they only look at the workshopmanual and stick to that, Piaggio Benelux advised not to do the grease mod, so they stick to that one also Piaggio Benelux did also ban all electric mods like heatedgrips an other GPS then Tomtom Rider2

this dealer is one of 2 dealer in the netherlands who wants to convert a 400 to a 460cc the others do say no we wont do that
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Hard to imagine that bearing grease could ever be bad for a bearing.
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i didn't say that the bearinggrease is bad i'm only saying that it didn't work for me

but i just filled it up again its better now but i've got the notch with lowspeeds

1/2 can of grease for one side i put in an hour ago
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I think your mechanic sounds awesome, its just too bad we have this issue on our MP3s.
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Maksor wrote:
i think i try Piaggio settings the lasted longer with out any grease and this time with grease
Don't wish to be impolite or to appear like a 'Know-it-all' , but I really think you should have a chat or two with several different mechanics on the pros and cons of applying grease to these bearings.


Good luck.



.
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Maksor wrote:
i think i try Piaggio settings the lasted longer with out any grease and this time with grease
I believe Piaggio puts grease in the bearings at the factory, they just don't provide a way to replenish it over time.
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mjm50cal wrote:
Ordered 50 more bolts. They'll be here next week.
Not trying to be pushy...just curious if these bolts ever came in and if there was a chance to snag a few--so far, my new black MP3 500 has had just about every "typical" problem that's been discussed on this forum so I'm guessing that the bearing issue will probably come up some time in the future! Thanks...
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wildblue wrote:
mjm50cal wrote:
Ordered 50 more bolts. They'll be here next week.
Not trying to be pushy...just curious if these bolts ever came in and if there was a chance to snag a few--so far, my new black MP3 500 has had just about every "typical" problem that's been discussed on this forum so I'm guessing that the bearing issue will probably come up some time in the future! Thanks...
The bolts only take a day to get. My neighbor will get to them at the end of the month, he has told me. At the rate it's going, I'll need to get another 50.
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mjm50cal wrote:
The bolts only take a day to get. My neighbor will get to them at the end of the month, he has told me. At the rate it's going, I'll need to get another 50.
Sweet; please count me in for at least a few sets to do both our bikes whenever the next batch comes through. Thanks!
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Grease quality:

I noticed that when I pumped new grease into the bearings and old grease came out, the old grease (in mine at least) was white coloured and very light in consistency.

It reminded me of the white lub. that they use on car door locks and such like.

All the bearing grease I have ever seen (over the last 50+ years) is quite thick, as was the heavy duty bearing grease I used in this instance.

I just wonder if the grease Piaggio used is too light for the job and it is a grease problem that causes the bearing problem.

Any thoughts on this?
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If your pre-load on the bearings is too high to begin with, then the type of grease is inconcequential. Greasing dry bearings will prevent rust and road grime from entering bearing surfaces and help from exasperating the problem.
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Two months since original post by simonzeb and 5 full pages of follow-up posts. MJM has delivered bolts by the hundred and many of us have seen an improvement.

Just want to give a shout out here to simonzeb and MJM50cal with thanks for leading the rest of us through this.
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jimc wrote:
May I inject a cautionary word here.

The 'notch' is eff-all to do with lack of grease - grease isn't actually important for these bearings - there should be enough to keep crap out, but that's it. The actual surfaces that meet have no grease between them - they are static surfaces in the main, and there probably isn't a molecule of grease left between them, even after the treatment above. It's metal to metal. If there's room for grease - they're too loose.

The one single, big problem is the pre-load applied to these bearing at manufacture (and in the first iteration of the workshop manual - by workshops).

Zero pre-load - no problem for life unless the rider hits a big pot-hole or whatever. The damage is done by axial impacts, nothing more, nothing less.

This is not a mod I would bother with or give a second thought to.
I would have to agree with JimC. The fact that the steering should be re-torqued/bearings repacked would prolong the life however to disassemble the steering system to repack the bearings and retorque to 25% over factory specs (20Nm and not 15Nm) would take almost as long as replacement. Adding grease nipples below the race would not do anything...how the heck do you expect the grease to get into the bearing itself unless you filled the entire steering tube full of it?? I can see a benefit to adding grease nipples but it would have to be injected at the race itself in order to get to the bearings. You're wasting your time with these bolts...kinda like adding tits to a bull!
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VespaBurlington wrote:
jimc wrote:
May I inject a cautionary word here.

The 'notch' is eff-all to do with lack of grease - grease isn't actually important for these bearings - there should be enough to keep crap out, but that's it. The actual surfaces that meet have no grease between them - they are static surfaces in the main, and there probably isn't a molecule of grease left between them, even after the treatment above. It's metal to metal. If there's room for grease - they're too loose.

The one single, big problem is the pre-load applied to these bearing at manufacture (and in the first iteration of the workshop manual - by workshops).

Zero pre-load - no problem for life unless the rider hits a big pot-hole or whatever. The damage is done by axial impacts, nothing more, nothing less.

This is not a mod I would bother with or give a second thought to.
I would have to agree with JimC. The fact that the steering should be re-torqued/bearings repacked would prolong the life however to disassemble the steering system to repack the bearings and retorque to 25% over factory specs (20Nm and not 15Nm) would take almost as long as replacement. Adding grease nipples below the race would not do anything...how the heck do you expect the grease to get into the bearing itself unless you filled the entire steering tube full of it?? I can see a benefit to adding grease nipples but it would have to be injected at the race itself in order to get to the bearings. You're wasting your time with these bolts...kinda like adding tits to a bull!
so then what does it hurt to add a few grease nipples and take a chance that some grease does get to the bearings and provides some lubrication rather than NO lubrication chance at all.

Edit : at a cost of just a few $
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mjm50cal wrote:
Ordered 50 more bolts. They'll be here next week.
Hey! Can I get put down for 4?
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~.
⚠️ Last edited by JTbme on UTC; edited 1 time
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Does it help or not?
We have a fairly good sized user base here that have installed the bolts. Please report back here if the notch problem appears on your modified scooter. That way, we may get some kind of idea if the mod is working or not.
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Re: Does it help or not?
jlindh wrote:
We have a fairly good sized user base here that have installed the bolts. Please report back here if the notch problem appears on your modified scooter. That way, we may get some kind of idea if the mod is working or not.
this mod just came out. long term high mileages ahve not been reached yet. For full data you might have to wait a year or so for folks to rack up some miles.
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Maxor, you say you did "almost the same mod" and had trouble. Maybe "ALMOST" is not good enough. Those of us who did THE SAME mod had no trouble. Perhaps you should describe the mod you did.

Jimc, I usually agree with everything you say but how can injecting the grease in the top bolts NOT get to the bearings? Gravity has a strong effect. I have no doubt grease reached my bearings.
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i installed the greaseniples in the tubes not in a bolt 16.000km /10.000miles or half a year i got the notch again the factory installed ones did 20.000km and Fuzzy Piaggio didn't use any grease with mine and they where installed to tight then
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It appears that emotions are beginning to become elevated here, and there is no need if people just stop and think about what is being accomplished here.

Does anyone know of any instance in mechanical design where a bearing can endure if there is no lubrication present, or the ability to replenish that lubrication, to assist in the performance and reliability of that component?............I doubt it very much.

From my personal experience, after applying the grease to all four bearings there was an almost instantaneous improvement in the ease with which the front end could rotate. I didn't have to take the scoot out for a test ride to witness the incredible improvement in smoothness, and today, almost 6 weeks later, the new and improved sensitivity of the front end still makes me smile (big time).

Thank you.....................r



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Rank Bajin wrote:
It appears that emotions are beginning to become elevated here, and there is no need if people just stop and think about what is being accomplished here.

Does anyone know of any instance in mechanical design where a bearing can endure if there is no lubrication present, or the ability to replenish that lubrication, to assist in the performance and reliability of that component?............I doubt it very much.

From my personal experience, after applying the grease to all four bearings there was an almost instantaneous improvement in the ease with which the front end could rotate. I didn't have to take the scoot out for a test ride to witness the incredible improvement in smoothness, and today, almost 6 weeks later, the new and improved sensitivity of the front end still makes me smile (big time).

Thank you.....................r



.
I'm glad to hear that you personally do like the modification. The decrease in effort to turn is definitely worth noting, though it is not exactly what is being asked. In an attempt to keep the current topic from wandering the question is with regard to bearing longevity, not function. Plus we're looking for hard evidence rather than speculation. Regardless of steering ease, has anyone actually recorded longer bearing life as a direct result of adding the zert bolts?

This may all be a moot point anyway considering that the riding conditions may have more to do with bearing life than whether or not additional grease is added. I'm sure my bearings will wear out faster from daily riding through downtown Seattle than someone who mainly rides smooth highways. That's just a matter of axial impact over time. To really weigh the evidence we would need to compare the same person in the same riding conditions with and without the bolts. So far the only person I see that fits this criteria is Maksor.

It would be worth knowing how the bearings are failing. That can easily tell us if lack of grease is the problem. If bearings and races are wearing out due to corrosion or pitting then that would very likely be helped by the addition of grease. If the bearings and races are clean and free from pitting, but are deformed or cracked then the bearing failure would have likely been caused by impact. Grease would not help this. For those who have the modification done, when you eventually do have the bearings replaced you should note any corrosion, pitting, cracking, and deformation. If only part of a bearing is corroded, then it might show how grease is being distributed once it gets through the bolt.
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Well the lack off grease isn't the problem and i agree its smoother when you do this mod, but it won't prefent the notch the bottom bearing that is used is simply not strong enough to cope with pressure it got to handle when driving highspeeds

it also depent on how much and where you drive my first set i did allmost no Autobahn the second one lots more autobahn

and piaggio Benelux comfirms that in a memo, if you drive alot on the freeway /autobahn they will wear down much sooner, asked Dutchmen he got the memo/mail from Piaggio posted on the dutch club site

i've seen post on dutch forum's that it can be reduced to 7500km when you drive only autobahn with +140km/h
⚠️ Last edited by Maksor on UTC; edited 1 time
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april 12th this year a dutch member posted that he made this,
there where some questions about shavings falling in
when installingen the niples directly on the outer tubes/legs
like the second pic

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

the last pic is from dutchmen who did the same mod earlier
june 13th 2009 but he got a 2008 RL the front legs are different
he needs a whole can of grease to fill one side
and with a LT you only need 1 can for both legs
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UTC quote
Fuzzy wrote:
Two months since original post by simonzeb and 5 full pages of follow-up posts. MJM has delivered bolts by the hundred and many of us have seen an improvement.

Just want to give a shout out here to simonzeb and MJM50cal with thanks for leading the rest of us through this.
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Thanks, Karma points for everyone!
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luthorhuss wrote:
mjm50cal wrote:
Ordered 50 more bolts. They'll be here next week.
Hey! Can I get put down for 4?
I was wondering when you were gonna jump in the fray?
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Re Bolts
mjm50cal wrote:
luthorhuss wrote:
mjm50cal wrote:
Ordered 50 more bolts. They'll be here next week.
Hey! Can I get put down for 4?
I was wondering when you were gonna jump in the fray?
Hi can i order 6 of the bolts please email:

MCGREGOR5901@Rogers.com


Thanks
Cliff
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Maksor wrote:
i don't wanna be a partypooper but did allmost the same mod, and my bearings are again gone after 10000 miles / 16.000km


The factory set installed to tide and with no grease at all, managed to go over 14000 miles
the newly installed with a lot of grease only 10000 miles

in a couple of week i get the second set in
What did you torque your bearings to??
Manual says 15Nm...should be at least 20NM
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