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And no problem starting it up and no sputtering! Ive over filled about 10 times now with no issues.

Do Cdn scooters have the evap issue ? Did anyone else have the symptoms known to our international friends?
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UTC quote
Re: Opps! Overfilled my scooter again for the hundred time..
kdude wrote:
And no problem starting it up and no sputtering! Ive over filled about 10 times now with no issues.

Do Cdn scooters have the evap issue ? Did anyone else have the symptoms known to our international friends?
Hmmm. Do you use the pump-handle-over-the-pet-carrier method described here?

FAQ: How can I avoid overflowing the gas tank?

Since I've been using that method (nearly 2 years) I haven't had an overflow.
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Take off cap. Place vertically under lifted pet carrier. Fill to first click. No problems, ever - for the Hornet.
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KDUDE that is a good question. Most of the time were both lumped into the whole N. America thing but i really don't know Nerd emoticon Will be looking to see what the outcome is 8)
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Overfilled mine for the 1st time ever this weekend. I think a girl in a bikini caught my eye or something. Goofy emoticon Luckily no problems, but gas went all down the back. Headache emoticon
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well this explains why i've been having trouble with my starter. i didn't realize overflowing could affect the start. ill be sure to try that over the pet carrier method next time
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UTC quote
jimc wrote:
Take off cap. Place vertically under lifted pet carrier. Fill to first click. No problems, ever - for the Hornet.
I think your pumps work better than ours, Jim. I overfill all the time, and it's not because I'm doing it wrong.
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Friendly reminder...remove the Pet Carrier and place it aside where even an overfill splash will not mess up the contents of same...then proceed to fill.

In addition, I have a decent idea on how much I can fill before I need to slow it down...at 1/4 tank I can get to ~ 1.5 gallons and I slow it down and back out the handle and look down into the tank and trickle fill...you can begin to see the fill level. However, if you're concerned with any back up / overflow just stop at the 1.5 gallon fill and stop.
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Jim, I assume this is the technique you are referring to. I've found it to be a great and simple solution. It was originally posted by Quentin and I thought everyone would love it, or am I missing something?
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Yah, pumps here in the US are hit and miss. Even with proper technique I'd say 60-75% of them shut off properly, but that leaves the rest which either never click off, or click off too late.

I've overfilled a few times, with no ill effects on my stock GTS250. I guess I have the Evap system, but it has not done anything bad in 12,000+ miles. I ride 3 seasons a year.

If the pumps by you never work, just buy what you need--On my bike 1 bar = 1.8 gallons (approx), 2 bars = 1.6 gallons, 3 bars = 1.4, you get the idea. If I see stains on the concrete, or am not sure about the pump, I'll sacrifice the extra tablespoon or so of fuel to avoid a mess.

PS--Cap propping up the bucket is the best idea anybody's ever had, ever. I used to take the bucket out and was sure I'd forget it somewhere, someday.

This works beautifully, and guarantees you remember to put the cap back on as well as you can't ride off without moving it.

P.
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Yep, I overfill all the time also. First click and its all over the place. But I do remove my pet carrier so the damage is limited. What's funny is when I fill, it usually takes about 1.6 gallons. If the tank is 2.43 gallons and I run it until the light comes on for a while then why does it only take only that little fuel?
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Under normal circumstances i can usually guess how much gas i've used and fill it before it overfills....

This time i wanted to top off a tank that was a quarter of the way down..

what i noticed this time is that the first quarter of the tank (at least on my gauge) goes down way quicker than the bottom quarter so it through me off and hence the overfill... I'll know better for the next time.
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I feel foolish admitting this, but I don't understand the reason for propping up the bucket with the lid. What does it do? Is it to prevent spilled fuel from going into the bucket?

I'm a newbie to the two-wheeled experience and have a lot to learn..... MV is a great resource for newbies!

The first time I filled the ET4's tank, fuel overflowed. Then I read the "over the pet carrier" tip and haven't spilled fuel since then. It's a great tip.
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JL... it will just stop any gas from getting into the bucket. In my case i keep my rain gear in there so i wouldn't like gas all over my stuff..
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I overfilled for the first time last week. Got about 1/4 cup of fuel in the pet carrier, but no ill effects riding. Just had some bungee cords and my lock in there.
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I also use the "fill until one click" method and works like a charm. I doubt that Canadian Vespas are different from the American version. We have the same add-on pod light indicators as the US model. It seems unlikely that Piaggio would produce an American run of scooters that includes the evap system and pod signal lights, and a special Canadian run that has the pod lights but no evap system. More likely they are the same N. American model - all designed to meet California evap law requirements.
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So far I have been successful with the typical method and I have filled at many different stations: pump handle over pet carrier, all the way in, first click - the only thing I do differently is try and squeeze only half speed, my thinking, I could get more in without turbulence.
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michael_h wrote:
I also use the "fill until one click" method and works like a charm. I doubt that Canadian Vespas are different from the American version. We have the same add-on pod light indicators as the US model. It seems unlikely that Piaggio would produce an American run of scooters that includes the evap system and pod signal lights, and a special Canadian run that has the pod lights but no evap system. More likely they are the same N. American model - all designed to meet California evap law requirements.
It's not the Vespas that are different in the US, it's the crappy, poorly maintained, cheap-ass nozzles. Many of them do not work correctly, and nobody does anything about it.

Oh, wait -- there is something done about it. They post signs on the pump stating "You are responsible for any spills".

Douches.

P.
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I use the fill until one click method. Never a problem. All sorts of pumps...pumps w/ vapor recapture sleeves...pumps without vapor recapture sleeves...pumps with ridiculously over-designed vapor recapture sleeves...

The one condition I always make sure I maintain is that the nozzle of the fuel pump is jammed as far down the filler neck as possible. The tip of the nozzle has to be just below the filler neck for the cut-off valve to trip in time. When the liquid fuel is sucked up into the vapor recapture line, that's when the cut-off valve senses the difference in pressure & trips, and the fuel flow stops. It needs a split second to react. If the tip of the fuel pump is below the bottom of the filler neck, the plenum in the tank is large enough to take the draining fuel as the fuel flow stops. but if you have the nozzle stuck only halfway down the filler neck, the buffer that the plenum offered is already full of fuel by the time the pressure sensor is triggered; the remaining fuel has nowhere to go except up the narrow filler neck....of course you're going to overflow.

I also don't usually squeeze the handle completely down completely either. It's only a gallon & a half of fuel. Things happen fast when you've got such little space to work with.
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mxyztplk wrote:
Jim, I assume this is the technique you are referring to. I've found it to be a great and simple solution. It was originally posted by Quentin and I thought everyone would love it, or am I missing something?
This is slap in the face brilliant! Why didnt I think of that?
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mxyztplk wrote:
Jim, I assume this is the technique you are referring to. I've found it to be a great and simple solution. It was originally posted by Quentin and I thought everyone would love it, or am I missing something?
Good one !!
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TheWasp wrote:
I use the fill until one click method. Never a problem. All sorts of pumps...pumps w/ vapor recapture sleeves...pumps without vapor recapture sleeves...pumps with ridiculously over-designed vapor recapture sleeves...

The one condition I always make sure I maintain is that the nozzle of the fuel pump is jammed as far down the filler neck as possible. The tip of the nozzle has to be just below the filler neck for the cut-off valve to trip in time. When the liquid fuel is sucked up into the vapor recapture line, that's when the cut-off valve senses the difference in pressure & trips, and the fuel flow stops. It needs a split second to react. If the tip of the fuel pump is below the bottom of the filler neck, the plenum in the tank is large enough to take the draining fuel as the fuel flow stops. but if you have the nozzle stuck only halfway down the filler neck, the buffer that the plenum offered is already full of fuel by the time the pressure sensor is triggered; the remaining fuel has nowhere to go except up the narrow filler neck....of course you're going to overflow.

I also don't usually squeeze the handle completely down completely either. It's only a gallon & a half of fuel. Things happen fast when you've got such little space to work with.
An excellent and concise description of what works best and WHY! Works for me, too... along with the brilliant "cap under the edge of the bucket" idea just in case. Once you get into the habit of doing it right, it's no inconvenience.
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UTC quote
I overfilled and now it won't start
I over filled my tank on my Aprillia Scarbero 150 and now it won't start. What should I do? Does it evap? Should I siphon out? did I cause damage?
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Remove Evap Crap if you've had problems when overfilling.

Which reminds me - the Cannonball scoots need that evapemectomy.

Just in case!
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UTC quote
I've been pulling my underseat storage out when I fill up and had never giving any thought to propping the cap under the thing. Brillant! Just proves every day is a school day...
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
I think I need a definition of "overfilling".

Are we talking "gas goes everywhere" or "filled to the brim, but not a drop more"?

Because both times i've filled the scoot thus far, i've just done it manually and slowly, but even then i've gone right up to the top...but not overflowed.

I guess really my question would be, "is filled to the brim 'overfilled' and therefore risking harm?"
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ravenlore wrote:
I think I need a definition of "overfilling".

Are we talking "gas goes everywhere" or "filled to the brim, but not a drop more"?

Because both times i've filled the scoot thus far, i've just done it manually and slowly, but even then i've gone right up to the top...but not overflowed.

I guess really my question would be, "is filled to the brim 'overfilled' and therefore risking harm?"
Overfilling (in this context) = filling to a point above the overflow/vent fitting at the base of the filler neck on the fuel tank, which allows fuel to drain into the carbon canister in the evaporative emissions control system. If you are filling to a point above the bottom of the plastic insert in the filler neck, you are overfilling.
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UTC quote
ravenlore wrote:
I think I need a definition of "overfilling".

Are we talking "gas goes everywhere" or "filled to the brim, but not a drop more"?

Because both times i've filled the scoot thus far, i've just done it manually and slowly, but even then i've gone right up to the top...but not overflowed.

I guess really my question would be, "is filled to the brim 'overfilled' and therefore risking harm?"
Yep, that's overfilled. Once it clicks off, that's enough. Otherwise the fuel clogges the evap system, and might cause problems...
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UTC quote
Silver Streak wrote:
ravenlore wrote:
I think I need a definition of "overfilling".

Are we talking "gas goes everywhere" or "filled to the brim, but not a drop more"?

Because both times i've filled the scoot thus far, i've just done it manually and slowly, but even then i've gone right up to the top...but not overflowed.

I guess really my question would be, "is filled to the brim 'overfilled' and therefore risking harm?"
Overfilling (in this context) = filling to a point above the overflow/vent fitting at the base of the filler neck on the fuel tank, which allows fuel to drain into the carbon canister in the evaporative emissions control system. If you are filling to a point above the bottom of the plastic insert in the filler neck, you are overfilling.
Thank you. That was exactly the info i needed. 1.98 gallons is too much. I need to stop at 1.90 or 1.88.
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UTC quote
I do find it amazing that your US pumps seem to be so unreliable which can lead to...

1. Fire hazards in garages,
2. Fuel spills into the atmosphere (far more than might be saved by the stupid evap contraption)
3. Car/clothing and customer damage

Most of the above would result in a law suit against the garage for all sorts of spurious reasons.

Surely accurate shut off is as important as the Evap?
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charlesm wrote:
I do find it amazing that your US pumps seem to be so unreliable which can lead to...

Works perfectly... for cars.

And that is the problem, everything here is centered around cars. Traffic signals that don't go green is even more annoying than the fillers.
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charlesm wrote:
I do find it amazing that your US pumps seem to be so unreliable which can lead to...

1. Fire hazards in garages,
2. Fuel spills into the atmosphere (far more than might be saved by the stupid evap contraption)
3. Car/clothing and customer damage

Most of the above would result in a law suit against the garage for all sorts of spurious reasons.

Surely accurate shut off is as important as the Evap?
I agree, but I think a lot of the problem is that the pumps are optimized for rapid fill-up of the oversized SUVs and pickup trucks with their huge fuel tanks that are so common here. Subtlety of accurate shut-off doesn't matter much when the filler neck on those vehicles holds more than an entire scooter fuel tank.
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jimc wrote:
Take off cap. Place vertically under lifted pet carrier. Fill to first click.
Agreed. Going past that "first click" is where the fun begins. I still think there's gotta be a better delivery/filling system, but what the hell do I know.
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ToppiSF wrote:
jimc wrote:
Take off cap. Place vertically under lifted pet carrier. Fill to first click.
Agreed. Going past that "first click" is where the fun begins. I still think there's gotta be a better delivery/filling system, but what the hell do I know.
...and do not forget to put the filler cap back on the tank before you slam the seat shut. It shoots the filler cap way across the garage forecourt.


Do not ask me how I know.
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Raputtak wrote:
...and do not forget to put the filler cap back on the tank before you slam the seat shut. It shoots the filler cap way across the garage forecourt.
ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon
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Just filled up. That is "just" as in a short time ago AND "just" put the appropriate amount in with out spilling. (Our UK pumps seem pretty reliable at the first click.)

For the first time I didn't remove the pet carrier as I used the filler cap trick! Teach me more stuff like this!!!!! It is so much more elegant than heaving an odd shaped bucket out of the scooter complete with a couple of kilos of lock and chain, waterproof trousers, and assorted crap on to the forecourt just to put £11 of fuel in! Clap emoticon
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I have one of the thing below in each of my bikes.

It holds the black rubber fume recovery trunk/hose thing back by using the built in stop on the metal filler tube. You just have to watch it fill up - no spills. Probably illegal because it modifies federally requred emissions recovery equipment - but it's probably better than lighting yourself on fire or shooting gas all over the place. Like that foam collar thing a few years ago.

I make them from scraps of this plastic stuff I use for my projects - they used to be able to buy them commercially..... I need to make a couple for friends who have seen other friends with them pretty soon.
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UTC quote
FWIW, after trying it "my way" and spilling a fair bit of fuel, I learned a couple of things.

The dealer who sold it to me, Vespa Sherman Oaks, is absolutely right. When the fuel light starts to flicker, you have about 30 miles until the gauge hits the stop pin. Then you have about another 30 miles or more before you actually run out of gas.

That said, I am also saddled with the CARB EVAP nonsense so just getting any gas into the tank can be a bit of a challenge, because the sleeved pump hoses we have here are very...particular. The GTS300 wasn't designed for them so me and most motorcycle riders have to adjust. Vespa hasn't done us California riders any favors to accommodate us.

So...after fucking it up myself in a failed attempt to get the tank completely full, I simply resorted to what the dealer said:

Ignore the fuel light and wait until the gauge hits the peg. Then put 1.6 to 1.8 gallons of fuel in it. Don't look at the money meter, look at the pump's gallon gauge instead. Use your other eye to watch for overflow.

If the station's pump doesn't take debit/credit cards, just go inside and ask for "8 dollars on pump number x." Depending on local gas prices, you will likely have to go back for change! It's actually good fun in an urban situation because everyone else in line is about to blow a big hole in a hundred dollar bill. I actually had a cashier ask if I was just buying gas for a gas can (aka jerry can). Nope.

You may or may not completely fill the tank but you'll come pretty close, according to the fuel gauge anyway, and no spill.

Tips for overspill: if it gets into the 'pet carrier' just use the blue paper shop towels you (should) have in the glove box to clean out the cat killer. If you don't have any, dunk a corner of one of their towels into whatever they have to clean glass, twist it a bit, then clean up your mess. Grab a few more because you will need them if:

...the fuel spill runs down the paint. Soak a rag with their window glop, and gently tamp it on the paint until it's fully wet. Then immediately use their water hose to rinse it all off. Do NOT try and rub it clean and dry, just let the detergent lift the spilled fuel off the paint then hose it down. You can make it look pretty later, but you really don't want to rub someone else's windshield dirt into your paint. The main thing is to not let any spilled gasoline dry on your paint, and water alone won't do the job.

Ya, I'm a newbie here, but this is universal for any vehicle at any gas station. My dad used to own a gas station and always kept the squeegee bins pretty clean and filled with something other than plain water. If you're really anal, fill a small travel jar with some dish washing liquid instead of using whatever is in the bin where they keep the window stuff.

One last thing that you can take or leave - underneath your "pet carrier," (ha ha my wife has a small and grumpy cat I don't like so don't tempt me) are a lot of really hot things. Hot metals and gasoline are, traditionally, not very good friends...unless you're a pyromaniac with really good insurance, then they get along great! Extra points if the flaming spill totals your scooter, then you will have reached legendary fail status. HUGE bonus points if you capture it on video, especially if my wife's terrible cat is inside.

Ok, I'm not that mean, so pull out the flaming cat and hit it with something heavy and swift so it doesn't suffer too much. It will take some time before Abdul finds the only working fire extinguisher. Don't ask me how I know this.
@bob_cowley avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS250, P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 773
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
 
Addicted
@bob_cowley avatar
GTS250, P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 773
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
UTC quote
kdude,
Canadian scooters certainly do have the same evap. emission systems as United States scooters. There should be a diagram of the fuel system on the inside of the glove box door.

Perhaps on your scooter, the system actually works and can contend with overfilling.

Cheers and good luck,
Bob
@sdg avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6544
Location: Thousand Oaks
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdg avatar
63 GS160 MK1 / GT60 / Sean Wotherspoon
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6544
Location: Thousand Oaks
UTC quote
I have always employed and advised this strategy...

Ride until you are between dead empty and 1/8 tank, red zone essentially. Put in 1.5 gallons by watching the fuel pump and STOP right there. You will have between 3/4 and a full tank. It is mathematically impossible to overfill using this method. For most non commuters not doing 100 miles a day this is the method for sure.

Best,
SDG
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