Modern Vespa

Hi all Thanks in advance for all the advice and help ive picked up in the past,
but friday sadly my ET4 125 pre leader blew the main crank bearing, well ive decided onwards and upwards i want to use this oppurtuninty to put atleast 150cc engine in it, what are my hurdles going to be and what motors can i choose from? Preferably i'd like a 200

Cheers
Lee

PS check it out in the gallery section

ET4 rebuild, repaint and service,

also if all else fails would a leader engine go in? or have i got to swap looms? id like to fall on a et4 150 or equivalent

The best (easiest) choice is a 190 cylinder kit. This with some upjetting and variator mods will make a bike that is too fast for its own 10" wheels.

Oopsclunkthud has mounted a liquid cooled GT200 engine in his "Rosebud" bike, but it takes quite a bit of engineering. He has sorted out the appropriate final drive gears already, but I'm not sure what he has done about a radiator mount, as the stock smallframe chassis has no obvious place to mount it.

well as im saying my engine is blown so id not want to spend on a new engine then 190 it, i'd rather get a air cooled motor either 150 or 200. i dont mind going for a 2 stroke

Can you guys get 150's in the UK? Generally, it's not hard to find a good engine for little money from a collision bike. As I only know US bikes, I'm not familiar enough with the pre-leader bikes to know how the electronics would correspond.

We can't get 150s in the UK. There isn't really an option other than to replace it with another pre-leader as the wiring loom is completely different. (And that means CDi, immobiliser, etc. to use a leader)

Buy a frame damaged leader Vespa ET4 and transplant the works into your good frame.

The pre-leaders are more powerful than the 150s anyway, so best just replace the engine. There are plenty around. Most decent dealers have a stock of used engines kicking around. Find a nice used pre-leader engine and stick that in.

I know a mechanic who actually has a new pre-leader sitting in his shop - or at least he had the last time I spoke to him. He'll want ££££ for it though - they are true hen's teeth these days.

well stripped it down earlier and its a failed crank bearing, only a little play in it but i dont fancy stripping the engine down, im struggling for a pre leader engine it seems but i may buy a whole bike and part it out,

so if anyone spots a pre leader engine going or a cheap pre leader then im all over it,

Thanks for your advice guys,
think i'll retrofit a temp sensor for future journeys, i was hoping i could put a 200 engine in it but nevermind, only option otherwise is 190'ing a leader and putting the loom in too,

also what other piaggios have the same engine? pre leader and leader

found a zip complete bike i reckon i could use that if the looms differ i can just splice the switch connections and lights etc.

So anyone know if i get a 2002 leader zip 125 can i transplant the whole lot into my bike?

found a front ended one for salvage running with keys etc.

If you feel like shipping an engine from the USA. Any leader 150 from a ET, LX, S, LxV, or fly 150 will work.

No. The loom is different. Your ET4 is so good, it might be worth trying to buy that new pre-leader that Genie was talking about. You could also give scootech a call and ask if they have a pre-leader sitting out back that they could send to you (02083834111).

i would swap the whole loom over and adjust the wiring to suit the lights on the et4, its circa £200 for a pre leader engine, id rather rather put a leader engine in also as the crank bearings are less prone to failure,

Just make sure that there are no differences elsewhere. I have a sneaky suspicion that the instrument panel electronics are different, as well as the ignition switch... and that's before you get to immobiliser, cdi etc. And don't forget the preleader has much more oomph, if a little less economical.

Well if thats not a goer what about this, blokes says its an 2004 model but the engine looks the same as mine (oil sight glass etc.)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320568406233&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It is a preleader engine. I am not sure of the difficulties (if indeed there are any) but the Liberty uses a much larger rear wheel than the ET4. You may have to change the gearbox set up. Try asking that question on here - can you put an LT engine into an ET4? (LT = American version of the Liberty).

bought that, fit it this week, and atleast i can give that motor a good clean, now should i put a 140 kit on it?

Here's an idea - Why not just wait a little while and buy something bigger and faster and save yourself a whole bunch of time a hassle ?

Just a thought.

Edit maybe if I bothered to read your initial post a but more I wouldn't have said that.

I'm an Arse.

Bill X

Bill youve said it yourself, besides whos gonna buy such a nice looking bike with a fubar'd engine,

Gts next i think

Erm. Did you read my post above. I'm a bit concerned that the case on the ET4 and Liberty are different. If you go to the parts manuals in the Wiki, and look at the transmission covers you may find your answer...

Yes noticed that but i shall hopefully be able to transplant my gearbox internals and swap the casing if not maybe just run with the alternative casing, im determined to make it work,

It arrived today so with anyluck my bike will be running again tonight, will change the oil next week as im waiting on an oil filter, the rollers and belt from my engine will be swapped as there only a few hundred miles old,

I would be happy for you if you proved me wrong. Let us know how you get on.

get the wonder wheels on it first, its discusting, may even drop a few bits off for powdercoating,

*jus remembered need some gearbox oil, oops perhaps i'll just stick the renault stuff in ive already got*

the italjet is the same engine but the casing is 2 inches longer to allow for the big wheels and the rear drum is bigger, well im gona go fetch a 52 zip whole ike just shy of 100 quid swap the lcdi and mate the looms together and 190 kit it to cheer me up!

I did try to warn you. But good luck with the Zip bits. There are plenty of pre-leaders around. Seriously...

yea doug if you'd of spelled it out i may of listened but sadly im one of them smart arse types, and now its bit me in the bum.

I dont want to pay 200 quid for a pre leader engine if the crank bearings are going to fail again, and the leader cranks seems better, but its all a weigh up between price/time/reliability if a whole et4 was 200 quid then id consider it,

Your scoot looks great. I'm not sure your pre-leader fears are founded on substance. Genie had a couple, running strong at 30k miles if I remember correctly.

in honesty i need a gts 200 i do 25 miles on thing in one trip somedays which is what killed it, all the pre leader 125's on ebay seem to be 275 quid, i can get a whole 2002 zip for 120 quid....... and then spend the saving on a 190 kit then id be happy....

xmanhoe on this forum has a pre-leader ET4 that he sold with a stupid amount of miles on it - 50,000 or something - and apparently it's still going, years later. one of mine is nearing the 30,000 mile mark with no issues, and believe me, its new owner is 'not gentle' with it. i used to commute 40km a day on them, last summer we took one of them to cornwall and back ... they're built like little tanks, i suspect your crank bearing failure was an exception rather than a rule.

basically i was pooed on then

Are the main bearings on the pre-leader plane or ball bearings? I thought that was one advantage to the pre-leader is that they are far more rebuildable.

Just answered my own question. ball bearings everywhere.

http://www.vespaspares.co.uk/spares/epc2.asp?ModelID=1067&pageID=T3

i just wouldnt know where to start with timing the thing back up, bearings are cheap at 27 quid,

bought a zip125 for 41 quid now,

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130416503893&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

got this on friday, had it running with the help of sum fresh fuel and some easy start, engine fits my mount swapped the shock over trying it on my loom tonight only issues are adjusting the wiring to suit the altenator but should be a problem the starter wiring is fine,

pics later or tomorrow,

well the engines in but i need to mate the new and old woring together theres only the wiring to the altenator which is the issue does anyone have any idea where i can get a wiring diagram of both a 1997 et4 pre leader and a leader zip125?

Much appreciated
lee

here's the pre-leader wiring diagram - if you need it in a larger file size i can email you a copy.

cheers genie, found some good stuff jim posted too, looks like im gonna run the engine end of the zip loom with just an AC output to the lights etc.
as the altenator charging system is very differnet between the 2 models, and they wont mate together with ease, so engine loom of the zip with the immobiliser from the et4 still, went in quite well tho, lil bit of trmming to get the head to clear the frame tho, im quite happy and excited to have it all done,

thanks again!

8)

ive put the whole zip engine and loom in and made what wont fit the et4 fit, few extended wires relocated the horn, but all in all fairly easy im just sussing out the dash wiring now its trial and error tho, oh and wiring a fuel gauge manally, thank Jim for your post with wiring diagrams,

PS can i subscribe to the site in any way to say thanks?

site subscription service is not up and running yet but deliveries of liquid refreshment to my home address will suffice in the meantime

glad you are up and (almost) running. people are always asking about swapping ET4 engines for some reason so if you're feeling up to writing a more detailed description of your experience with pics that would be helpful.

all running except the main lights, i need to have the bike running to test this but as the exhaust isnt fitted ive not really ran the bike, the head is massive on the zip engine but is it still 2 valve?
Manged the wire the orginal tank sender to the et4 clocks but on a 2 wire zip loom, the tech manuals are a gift from god i would of been lost without them, genie i'll try get a better write up but im off to NZ in 2 weeks for 4 months and have nothing prepared getting the bike finished is one job before i leave,

AND it is still going , bumped into it's owner a few weeks ago and it has 61k on the clock !!!!