Modern Vespa

If you greased your 500s steering bearings after reading the thread a while back on how to do so, I am curious if you find the bike now handles a bit "loose"?
Not a huge difference, but certainly noticeable on mine, mostly I sense it at stops and starts, and slower speeds, but also noticed it in the canyons today.
It can be a bit disconcerting at times, or maybe I have just not gotten used to the change ( but maybe 600 miles ago now).

Not anything really I can't live with, but wondering if there might need to be a readjustment of bearings now that I have done the deed? Or as Ron suggested here, I could put shoe-goo into it next time!

Well that's interesting to read... I just greased mine this morning, and have yet to ride. But I had noticed some 'squirreliness' on a long ride into the western slope last weekend, trying not to think notch as she felt a little waffley on long sweeping left curves, and a little on the right curves too. Easy for one to imagine feeling "the notch" after reading so much about it and be hypersensitive... For now, as you say, the deed is done so I will proceed to ride and see how it shakes out.

Ain't that the truth - mine has acted squirrely in long sweepers just about from day one. But I don't have any notch in the steering. I do have something that makes the front feel "loose" like something clunking when making tight low speed turns. I dunno what the hell it is but I almost wonder if it's normal and I'm hypersensitive.

Regarding the squirrels in turns, that went away for me when I went to reverse stearing in all my turns. For some reason it made all my turns more solid a predictable. It also seems to make my scoot lean more in the turns.

what do you mean by "reverse steering"?

I am glad someone else asked about "reverse steering". I was afraid of appearing dumb!.

Also BubbaJon, I get a noise on slow turns going around small/tight round-a-bouts. Might be same as you are getting.
Sounds almost like a brake pad scraping but there is no untoward movement anywhere that I can find. Also, it is not getting any worse.

For all I know it could also be on high speed turns that can't be heard because of general noise.

Anyone have any ideas? (Still only low mileage.)

Guess I did spell steering wrong.
When I turn left, I don't push forward with my right hand to turn left, I push DOWN with my left hand to turn left. The opposite when turning right. I got this from an earlier post on this forum, tried it and was impressed. So much so that I have taught it to some of my friends. It makes turning amazingly smooth.

Sounds like counter steering. You push forward opposite direction to turn. To turn left you push forward on left bar - or pull right bar towards you. Same thing?

I'm working and replying at the same time. Words escape me today. I should be riding.

Yeah, reverse stearing. When you ride a cow backwards!

push left go left, push right go right , that is what is taught in MSF classes. And has been that way for 20+ years since I took my first class. don't get caught up in the pull back on the right bar to go left, while this method is the same only in reverse and does work it is by far easyier to just remember push left go left. If you feel the push with the center of your palm you will find it real easy to go thru a corner. And the harder you push the MORE the bike / scoot will want to lean thru the corner. this can be very useful when going thru a decreasing radius corner ( the corner gets tighter the more you go thru it) Also don't forget to look thru the turn , where you want to go and to continue looking ahead as your in the turn.

So, no one has felt the front seeming a bit looser after the grease?? Maybe just me.

Haven't had opportunity to ride yet... Summer headcold has me balance-challenged enough to skip it today. Will report soon as I can.

Or we could just chat about 'cownter stearing'...

Pssshhhht - been doing it so long I don't even remember how I was taught/learned it. Literally a "no-brainer" in that higher level cognitive functions not needed.

Always curious how anyone controls a bike "before" they learn to countersteer?

As the back ordered bolts are 'now in stock' we can expect in a very short time lotsa feedback from actual real live experiences.

Can't wait......

PS Mine is looser too and love it.




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I was able to get some riding in today, although not the kind I would prefer. Nonetheless, I'd like to say the steering felt better, a bit less effort to handle, more fluid and responsive. Possibly I may be imagining it given the focus but I don't think so. I certainly did get plenty of grease in the tubes though because after I got home I saw some more had squeezed out. You that have done this had any issue with grease perhaps continuing to ooze out? Not like it's a sealed housing that just got packed with grease...

Perhaps just a tad. I'd think in hotter weather to be seeing a bit more. It'll be interesting in about 3-4 months time to see how many strokes of the grease gun it takes before it starts oozing again.
Very worth while improvement, and thanks again to Simon for bringing this up.


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Most people seem to find it an improvement it seems. Mine might be different who knows?
I am reminded of when there was the thread about changing to a 150 size rear tire. With two 500s to ride it was interesting==mine just felt weird, like I was riding on a big beachball and I had it taken off. On the other 500, I really did not notice it at all. You would think they would be exactly the same of course. Never did figure that one out.

I am feeling a little less confident in the turns at this point, but will need to get used to it. I can hardly imagine that it would not be helping the bearing issue, so it is a good thing no doubt to do to your bike....

It bears checking for oozed grease frequently. If enough grease were to ooze out that it could blob down onto the front tire, it could be very unpleasant. This third sentence in this paragraph is just so I can use the word 'ooze' again...

In a couple weeks we'll be scooting across the coast range for a day trip of 250 miles. Plenty of twisties and hills so that will probably be the first opportunity to really see net effect of the additional grease. But so far it feels better in handling and I feel better about having the grease in place, and that's good!

Amen! Something to be said for knowing that load bearing surfaces have that protective film. I finally found my big needle for a syringe and will be putting lithium grease in the upper steering bearing and fabricating a cover for it. As much dust is flying around it gives me the willies having an exposed bearing.

Stated it before, believe we want only to "lubricate the roller bearings", not "Pack them". Grease is nothing but oil, with a solidifier added, to make it thicker. (quick description) A couple shots of grease every few months, or belt change, is possibly enough? Pump in "wheel bearing grease", and even better! My 2 cents.

BubbaJon.[/quote]
I finally found my big needle for a syringe and will be putting lithium grease in the upper steering bearing and fabricating a cover for it. As much dust is flying around it gives me the willies having an exposed bearing.[/quote]

Now a few pics if possible showing the details would be appreciated




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Just look under the cover under your handlebars - you can see the exposed bearing clear as day. I will detail any fixes I come up with for it.

Just occured to me, there is no data base for our approach! When I do mine, will take a fish scale and attach it to the front wheels. Jack up the front, and pull sideways on the scale to measure the "pulling force", before and after greasing. Goldwings use this technic for setting the steering bearing also. If we see a big differance, we will at least have a "data base", started. Then take it from there!

Sorry, but the memory card was not in camera. Using a Harbor freight fish scale #94569, measured the left and right pull on the front wheels. Put a tape measure on the ground, pointing out sideways, from front of wheel. (90 degrees) Put a bungee cord around front of tire/rim. Left wheel, (position/ # lb-oz. )start/ 6 oz .5"/1-14 1.0"/2-2 1.5"/2-6 2.0"/2-10 2.5"/2-10 3.0"/2-12 3.0"/3-0 3.5"/3-8 . Right wheel start/2-0 .5"/2-10 1.0"/2-15 1.5"/3-2 2.0"/3-8 2.5"/3-2 3.0"/4-0 3.5"/4-6 . Now this scooter was dropped by prior owner, so could be an unknown factor why left and right pulls are not close? Installed grease bolts, and started greasing upper/lower, 10 pumps, 18 pumps, 20 pumps, and final 30 & 35 pumps to top bearing. (total counts) Each time rechecking the fish scale pulls for any differances. Lower bearing showed some grease after 20 min., and stopped at 20 pumps of grease. Top bearings showed a few oz. differance on the far 2.5" and further pull. Mid range a possible 3-6 oz. change. Consistent measuring, was usually within 2-4 oz. of same readings. Will let this sit for a week or two, and test ride, but did not Pack the bearing, just added to what might have been in there. Had no problems reaching all bolts from scoot on stand position. Zerk fittings easy reach on the 500 model.

Wow, GO3, sounds fairly scientific, though I do not know what the findings mean really--do you think those readings show a lot of movement? No dpoubt it would vary a bit bike to bike.
In the meantime, I have either gotten used to the new feeling or it has settled down. Probably the prior.
I do not note the squirrelly feeling so much now.

If anything, it starts off with a base model of pulling force of 1-2 lbs up to about the first 2 inch movement, then doubles the next 2 inches. Waking up and sleeping on it, the top nut likely needs to be adjusted on one of them to increase/decrease the pressure? Idea is, the pulling force gives some relationship to the bearings "pressure state", or tightness on them already. Goldwings look for a drag of 2-3 lbs of pull. only halfa$$ data I can compare to. If someone else does theirs, then we could be onto something!

Inspired by BubbaJons comments, as well as others I decided to 'get at the bearings proper for a good cleaning and inspection.

I was quite surprised at the amount of crud and grit in amongst the bearings top & bottom. After flushing out and re-packing I finished off by taping up top and bottom. It always was a surprise to see ball bearings exposed to the elements like here. Even with the surrounding covers, shielding etc. the crap was still getting home.


Worth doing IMHO, but probably not critical.......

Re: I also get a noise like the one described and I also feel that it is coming from the brake pad(s). But I can't explain why that should happen as everything appears to be tight. So unless it gets worse, I refuse to worry about it.

I also greased my steering bearings and have now found the steering to be lighter and more pleasant without any ill effects.

Watch that front end tho - I've been having a lot of grease oozing out since the weather got warm and I've been going on longer trips (300 miles this weekend).

Yup, have that too. I have now gone to a more sticky marine trailer bearing grease than before.

That is what I've recommended and used from the begining. Available everywhere, cheap, and it being designed for water submersion makes it the perfect choice for these bearings.