Modern Vespa

This is not meant to be a jab against any one person or some screed, but it was important enough for me to feel the need to post. Also, this is not a hate for larger displacement engines. I utterly respect them and agree they are wild fun! I truly hope people get their dream of an MP3 800. I truly do. So here I go.

It makes me sad that even some fellow fans/owners of MP3s treat the MP3 250 like they are training-wheeled tricycles. I personally have pushed my 250 to 130kmh and there's a video of another who made 140/145kmh. There are no Canadian or American highways where those speeds are legal, to my knowledge. You don't need to go that fast. Then the argument usually turns to, "But you can't pass somebody on a 250! They don't have enough power!" If you're trying to pass someone and 130kmh is not fast enough to be able to overtake them, have you considered they're likely going the legal speed limit, then, and you have no need to pass them? What, so you can be one car-length more ahead than you were five minutes ago? I have yet to find myself in a situation where I thought, "Boy, it sure would've been helpful to be able to wildly exceed the speed limit! How terrible it was that I couldn't! Curse my oversized e-bike!"

Others will say, "Oh well they're great for city driving but you can't tour on them or take the highway on one." Before the 400s and 500s hit the US, two gentlemen went across America on a pair of 250s, from one side all the way across to the other, and apparently had a fulfilling, enjoyable, and reasonable time doing it. They weren't crying about how very disabled they felt on the things, or how once they left the "stomping grounds" of a 250, the city, all its usefulness fell off the back at the city limit sign and was left behind. They had a hoot and a safe ride at the same time. I'm sure they traveled straight and twisty roads, flat and hilly roads, highways and back roads, and all successfully.

The, "It can't really do hills well!" argument only really works if you live in an area where your highways are on hills. In short, if you don't have very many hills or the roads don't follow your hills and are mostly flat, that argument is null and void. Yes, if you live in a hilly area, travelling uuuUUP and DOOown a lot, maybe you want to feel you can go eleventykabillion kmh on your hills, or even just above the speed limit a bit. I can accept and understand this. Most people don't live in terribly hilly areas, though.

Another argument. "You can't really get off the line quickly enough like a 400/500." Hello OEM "Fuzzy washer" and Dr. Pulley sliders! When a 400/500 rider can look me straight in the face and swear they haven't even considered modding their bike, let alone actually done any mods to it, I'll take that argument seriously and agree completely with them. I believe Maksor(?) has modded his 250 so much it no longer resembles Earth technology and can likely chew up and spit out any road it rides on. I'm going to get Dr. Pulleys and an OEM washer, too. Not for topline gains, as that's not what they do, but for low speed agility and pulling from a stop quicker. I'm still not interested in going above 130kmh, mods or no, for the record.

Treating 250s like they're Model T jallopies  or "training bikes" is a shame. I can go the same places as 400/500s can and so long as they are not exceeding the speed limit, get there the same time they do. No one I've ever ridden with had to radio/shout to the others, "Oh wait up, guys. We gotta let the 250 catch up." One thing for sure when we all get there, though. Invariably, even if we all have topcases and sidecases, someone's going to ask me, "Hey, you got more room on your bike? This thing I got's too big to fit in mine." And what can I proudly say? "Sure! Let me open up my seat/trunk(boot)."

If you want to give people advice about which model of MP3 to ride, please be my guest. If you want to suggest the 400 or 500, be my guest. But please don't do it by making the 250 sound like a road hazard, a jallopy, a "beginner's MP3", or, "Fine for city but really poor/no good once you leave the city limits." I'll bet that guy who video'd himself going 145kmh has no trouble getting where he's going in great time. I know I don't. I also know the only time I've been in fear for my safety on the highway due to speed was because the guy was easily clocking far in excess of the legal speed limit and you will never convince me that's okay or that it's in any way my fault for being "too slow".

Tell people the 400/500 is fast. They are! Tell them the 400/500 is exhilirating. They are! Tell them you can really get where you want to be in amazing time. You can! But don't tell them they need one. I need to go over 130/145kmh like I need to become a long, red smear and trail of little metal and plastic bits along the highway. Love your MP3 400s/500s and talk proudly about them, but not at the expense of 250s.

I apologize if this ruffles anyone. That was never my point. I just love my 250 for all he's worth and wouldn't trade him for the world.  

I'm not sure who is making the remarks in question; but if you're referring to people on this forum I think you need to know that even those of us with the totally superior 500cc version are only joking when we denigrate those lesser machines. Actually most people here seem to respect the 250. If it's people not on the forum just ignore them as they aren't worthy of having an opinion.

For all the poeple that are dreaming about it, the 800 version won't be build, the frontlegs aren't strong enough to support the power of the 800 engine

Maybe that the spy photo of the Beverly with 2 frontwheels posted here some where, have different frontlegs then it could work, otherwise no way you have to change the stearingbearing every 2 or 3000miles then with a 800 engine

and the have to redesign the brakes the ones used now, are the same as the Vespa GTS 250/300 and LX50, so lets hope they aren't designed for the LX 50

I have over 1000 posts here on enjoying my 250 and the 21,000+ miles across 9 states I put on it in a year. Last I knew the guy who bought it was still enyoying it and has put thousands more miles on it as his primary transportation.

I did up grade to a 400 for power and it now has over 33,000 miles. On a two lane road on the 250 it was difficult to find room to pass someone doinng 50 mph and on some hills in central Georgia I could not maintain 55 mph speed limit. The most fun I have is going 150 miles north to the mountains and there it struggled to get to 45 on the hills. I weigh 210# and often had another 100# of gear with me for camping and travel.

There is always the thrill of more acceleration which is why so many motorcycles have 3 times the engine of my 400. Necessary? No, but for thrill or ego reasons many go there. A local dealer has been unable to sell their first Honda NT700 and the salesman tells me because people think it is underpowered for a sport / touring machine. It will out accelerate a Mana.

Oh, Maxi_Rose, your post made me so sad. I think you have forgotten one very important fact. That is that this whole MP3 gig is just a GIGGLE. When I look at my MP3 out in my drive way, I GIGGLE. When some clown comes up to me and asks me when I'm getting my training wheels off, I just GIGGLE and tell them "90 mph and 60 mpg." When I park it in a parking lot and walk over to the sidewalk and turn around to look back at it and see some little kid looking at it with his mouth hanging open, I GIGGLE. When my ridin' buddy and I stop at Sheet's (not many Tim Horton's around here) and he brags to people that I keep up with his Gold Wing at 90 mph, I GIGGLE. In fact, when I imagine the picture of his Gold Wing and my MP3 riding along together, I GIGGLE. When some timid soul comes up to me and says "Excuse me, Sir, can I take a picture of you and your, ah ah, motor scooter," like I just stepped out of Air Force One, honest, I GIGGLE.

I don't always GIGGLE out loud, but it bubbles up inside.

Don't you sometimes just look at your pretty MP3 250 and GIGGLE?

Maxi_Rose, DON'T loose your GIGGLE!!

Speed limits in CA are more like averages to me. When I am going 85 mph (which is often), I am making up for all the backup I was in due to the poorly designed freeways and roads and lack of planning due to all the taxes collected from fuel sales going into the general fund instead of the highways like it was supposed to.
Not to mention, that going just the speed limit in CA is likely a dangerous proposition.

My 500 cents
Mike

To each person "their own"!, but I am thinking some postings are taken out of context intended. New people riding, scooter, motorcycles, etc., do have a learning curve ahead. Time wise, no limit to learn them. Believe most people who may state, "buy a 400/500cc", are speaking from past experience. Riding a two wheeler below 300cc size, becomes a fast "time line", or restating it; after about 6 months to a year, it is slow to them and ready to move up in size. Odds are, people are only trying to help people avoid this "gap". (and loosing money doing an upgrade) The MP3 adds a handicap factor, for less experienced people to learn on, or again, easier handling then an equal two wheeler. If you are "happy", at any certian level, I am happy for you too! Take any posting for what it is worth, and move on! We are all people riding !

I don't post much on the MP Discussion, but own 2 of them. a 250 and a 400.
I LOVE my 250... and frankly bought the 400 because it was custom painted Dragon Red to match my GTS 250... (a bit frivolous, I know)... but I thought it would be better on the freeways here in Los Angeles.

And I think my favorite of all 3 of my steeds is the 250 MP3. The 400 is a bit safer on the high speed freeways. The 250 pegs out at 86 mph and in the Carpool lane, that's not enough to keep up with traffic... in lots of instances. So for the longer highway trips, the 400 may be my first choice, but other than that. The 250 is often my favorite.

When people ask me which MP3 to get, I usually tell them to get the 250! I think the 400 is too heavy, too rough, not enough storage..... I still love it, but if it hadn't been custom painted red, I don't think I would have even considered it. My 2- 250's would have been perfect.

I learned early here on this forum not to take everything you ready too seriously, or you'll get offended often. Take what you like and leave the rest.
Peace!
~Robyn

I agree with most of this. I had a 400 and hated it. Yes it was more powerful and had overtaking grunt but it was heavy and shuddery at low speed. The 250 is very sweet and smooth, especially with Dr Pulley 12g sliders and has a perfect weight/power/sweetness ratio. It isn't much good at overtaking or going up hills at above 60mph where it bogs down as has been hinted at before.

But for around the urban area it's perfect. It was also perfect for touring in Italy, and marshalling the others on LX125s!

I prefer the 250 MP3 to any other rig I have(7) for in town, but for long distances, yeah, if I had no choice I could do them on the 250, but from 65 mph on it's acceleration is marginal at best. I want to have a little more oomph when and in case I need it, so I take a bigger rig. The right rig for the job is my motto. Most my long distance riding is done on a 750 or 800cc MC. To each their own happiness.

I dunno, the only time the Betel ever has any problems is two-up in the smokies. Otherwise, it is a whole lot of fun. Other than the seat and rider position, it is fine for touring, I think.

One observation I have to make though, is that with the smaller "scooter-esque" wheels, it is at a bit of a disadvantage with grooved pavement that is often on the freeway. Tends to cause a very nasty lateral shimmy. I know most riders don't like the stuff, but it is quite pronounced.

LOL a 250 will beat anyone's ass in the right venue. Can't wait to put mine up against my brothers with larger displacement in September....thinking the climbs will be a challenge but try to keep up on the mostly level twisties. catch me if you can

It seems some folks may have gotten bent out of shape over my post. It was never my intent to take anyone on MV "too seriously", whatever that means. But as the old saying goes about articles/posts not written about any single person or group of people, if it offended you, then I guess it was written about you.

Someone posted that the only reason people will say, "Get a 400/500!" instead of 250 is because someone might enjoy the 250 for awhile but then "outgrow" it after awhile and have to sell it at a likely loss so they can "upgrade" to a bigger, more satisfying displacement and he was saving them the wasted time and money. I have no problem with people enjoying speed in the same way I have no problem with people enjoying alcohol. Enjoy both responsibly, and preferably, seperate of each other! What I meant by my post is be accurate and honest when telling people to skip the 250 and go straight to the higher displacements. The biggest reason people want bigger displacement bikes is they want the thrill of going faster. This is only mildly related to passing people or keeping up with traffic. I just took a 30 min trip down the Allen Expressway all the way to Steeles Avenue. What that translates to is I rode an expressway with posted speed limits of 80kmh for 30 minutes. It has a few hills and sweeping turns along the way, BTW. I got up to 120kmh to see if the new tire and fresh brake pads I had gotten were really solid and if my new mechanic was a keeper. (Yes to all of those, BTW.) I was well and truly beyond the posted speed limit and there were one or two people whizzing by me. If you're going up to 60kmh above the posted speed limit, you are not the kind of traffic I should want or need to keep up with. Back to my original point. I kept up fine with the proper flow of traffic, ignoring the dangerous knobs going, as I said, up to 60kmh above the posted speed limit. I got to the Shriner Circus in plenty of time to get great seats.

Stickyfrog and others have made it clear that 250 is not a handicap for them! I agree. All I'm asking is that when selling the merits of the 400s/500s, do so without using the 250. Tell people how fun they are, how fast they are, how stable they are. They're all great machines. But don't make it sound like getting a 250 is a mistake they'll regret. Without knowing what they're looking for in a bike, in the back of their minds, the best way to go is to ask them what kind of ride do they want today, tomorrow, next week, next year, 5 years from now. If they really need a "learning bike", try a 50/150cc. If they say they want to enjoy raw power and speed, definately suggest the 400/500. If they say they just want a really cool, stable, exotic, fun ride, any of the MP3s are exactly what they're looking for. =D

Many of the people who are on this forum have ridden the 'bigger' bikes for many years and they seriously find the 250 underpowered. It is not a matter of speed but the extra grunt when you need to move fast out of danger etc.

I test rode a 250 when I was first looking at the MP3's and found it wanting - this is my personal experience and I do think if you are looking for a new bike you need to test ride as many bikes as you can in your preferred marque. Everyone has their own wants and needs and I certainly would not consider a 250 an interim bike but would encourage people to try the 400/500 before they paid their money.

Hi Maxi,

Been reading this posting and have found it very interesting. I thoroughly enjoy my 250 and it meets all of my needs...from the first day I bought it until today and hopefully beyond. Have modified a few things on it like putting in Polini rollers and removing the OEM exhaust to lighten the bike (personal preference), which has translated to a faster take off from the line and keeping up with most of the traffic on the Interstate

I ride on the Interstate (I-5) everyday and I'm very comfortable riding in just about any lane, but I know the limitations of the bike so I'm usually in the far right lanes...that's the key, know the limitations of what you are riding and go from there 8)

When asked about my MP3 250, I tell folks that I ride on any type of surface (city streets, highways, country roads, etc.) and they are amazed at the flexibility of the bike. I also tell them the MP3 has three bikes in the product line and explain the merits of each one. So to me at least, I'm advertising and talking about every MP3 bike

spartan

My -discontinued- 250 LT puts a smile on my face, every day!

I knew exactly what my needs were, when I placed the order although my dealer told me that I should get the 400 LT. I really enjoy the ride and storage space this Scooter provides. You can't imagine what I stuffed under the seat during my vacations. Let me tell you that a full loaded mp3 250 with a rear case two side bags a tunnel bag all full of stuff and two riders got me over this hill:

(10% uphill) with ease! It can cruise with 130kph on open road and can reach 140kph in some cases.

For me the most important thing is one to consider what he or she really needs while not forgetting to enjoy the ride. Try going slower and notice all the little details you have never knew they existed due to your eyes being overwhelmed by your speedo.

psou:

I'm impressed, here are a few more views.

Bravo, psou! Yasou!!