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Some shocking and saddening news from Guido Ebert's blog (from an official Piaggio statement):
Quote:
In the Americas, Piaggio's two-wheeler sell-in volume for the recently ended first half totaled 3,100 units, down 76.7 percent compared to 13,200 units sold during the first half of 2009.
That's a much bigger drop than even a lot of pessimists may have predicted. Those numbers are for units sold, not revenue, and many dealers have been selling well below MSRP. (Though Piaggio probably gets their full cut on dealer discounted scoots.)

Worldwide profits are up, though the big sales gains have been in commercial vehicles.

Still, I can't help but wonder how this effects the future of Piaggio/Vespa in the US. I've never subscribed to the idea that they're going to bolt at the first sign of trouble, but this is a big ass sign.

Hopefully, for the sake of owners and dealers, it will prod them to make drastic changes to their various US strategies and business practices-whatever it takes to ensure their longevity here.

Two LA-area dealers (downtown, Long Beach) gave started selling Lance. Hopefully, others won't have to resort to such drastic measures.

Edited subject title to "Americas," which is more accurate than "USA."
⚠️ Last edited by ericalm on UTC; edited 4 times
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Unfortunately, more stores are closing every day. Case in point, I just got a call. No more Vespa Gainesvile. Crying or Very sad emoticon
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I've just been told Piaggio USA counts shipping a scoot to a dealer as a sale. So I guess one way to see the numbers is that dealers took on a lot of inventory in the first half of '09 and very little in the same period of '10. Actual sales, who knows? News isn't good either way.
Baudler wrote:
Unfortunately, more stores are closing every day. Case in point, I just got a call. No more Vespa Gainesvile. Crying or Very sad emoticon
Never good to hear about shops closing.

Considering that many more may shutter in the future or others may be holding on by a string, I have to wonder what sort of changes Piaggio USA would be willing to make to improve sales and help build dealerships with a better chance of survival. It's possible that a lot of medium-sized markets may not be able to support a dealership for more than a few years. Even in big scooter markets like SoCal, we've seen a very fast 2-3 year cycle of openings, expansion, closings.

On the other hand, Vespa Motorsport, FTW!
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Something seems very wrong with the Piaggio US business model and its marketing. I'm not saying that the UK business model is better, but at least London dealers seem to be doing good business. My local dealer has sold about ten new high value scooters(read GTS and MP3) in the last couple of weeks. Which is pretty good in a supposed recession. They tell me that they have not been badly hit. Probably people moving away from public transport.

Unfortunately in the US the market seems to be most leisure and not commuting so something has to give.
⚠️ Last edited by DougL on UTC; edited 1 time
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I would guess that those numbers have less to do with actual sales to customers than to Piaggio's habit of stuffing the channel, forcing dealers to take on more inventory than they can handle. I suspect dealers are finally wising up to this while selling off their back inventory, making Piaggio's numbers look dire.
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Where we used to be a 2 motorcycle dealer and 2 bike salvage yard town, we are down to one of each in the past year. The Kawasaki dealer I work at hasn't been doing that great. We're now the only real 2-wheel dealer in town, and we service and order parts for absolutely everything that comes in the door. There's no Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, or anything else here anymore (unless you count the Lance dealer that doesn't even do parts or service on their own stuff).

But there's techs and sales guys they weren't able to call back into work for the summer season because the business simply isn't there. The only reason I got hired as the cashier is so the other people who are working there can focus more on the customers we do get, rather than just the phone and the cash register. I'm certainly not complaining, but I can definately see that our sales aren't where they should be. And don't even get me started on the Schwinns we have. Most of them are '08 models we just can't even give away. We might sell one a month, if we're lucky.
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The dealer we got one of our scooters from said he hadn't ordered anything new from Piaggio in a year. He was sitting on a lot of inventory that he was desperate to sell.
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I think Eric was correct about the numbers representing the amount of bikes purchased by dealers. Almost every dealer and manufacturer spent the entirety of 2008 without enough bikes to sell. When the manufacturers caught up with demand in the end of 2008 and beginning of 2009, dealers had huge orders for bikes in preparation of what they thought was going to be another epic year. Once gas prices plummeted, dealers were sitting on enough stock to last them the whole year and into this year. I know we just sold our last 2008 model and still have plenty of 2009 models.

So, I think the early 2009 number were hugely inflated and probably represented the largest purchases by dealers in a 10 year span. The high of 2008 to the low of 2009 was such a severe change and very difficult to deal with.
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DougL wrote:
Something seems very wrong with the Piaggio US business model and its marketing.
It's laughable, and apparently it's not helping them fight for market-share in this recession wracked economy. Prognosis...not so good until something changes....
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ericalm wrote:
On the other hand, Vespa Motorsport, FTW!
A rarefied business in the industry to be sure...one of a kind. Motorsports doesn't need Piaggio to survive, they've demonstrated that.

Unfortunately Piaggio needs more places like Motorsports to.
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It's not limited to scooters, bike sales have plummeted too.

I'll bet the numbers from Genuine aren't much better, and they've virtually missed the entire riding season with their QC snafu on the four stroke Stella. That's got to hurt.

I know some dealers who can't sell their remaining Buddy stock even offering them at cost, with no shipping or PDI.

The economy has hit all the powersports dealers hard. Here's hoping 2011 will be the beginning of a better market for all of them.
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Len Smith wrote:
It's not limited to scooters, bike sales have plummeted too.

I'll bet the numbers from Genuine aren't much better, and they've virtually missed the entire riding season with their QC snafu on the four stroke Stella. That's got to hurt.

I know some dealers who can't sell their remaining Buddy stock even offering them at cost, with no shipping or PDI.

The economy has hit all the powersports dealers hard. Here's hoping 2011 will be the beginning of a better market for all of them.
A backlog (albeit a shrinking one as some people cancel 4T orders) is still better than some manufacturers can hope for right now...

Perhaps Piaggio could've shored up the decline with the Hybrid Mp3 they dangled in front of us some time back, or some other marketing or product offerings.
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jess wrote:
I would guess that those numbers have less to do with actual sales to customers than to Piaggio's habit of stuffing the channel, forcing dealers to take on more inventory than they can handle. I suspect dealers are finally wising up to this while selling off their back inventory, making Piaggio's numbers look dire.
Mos def. At the same time, actual sales (from dealers) numbers for 2009 and 2010 may still be dire in the end if the low volume of orders from Piaggio keeps up for the rest of the year. We're in peak riding/buying season. Unless dealers are moving massive amounts of inventory, I don't think they're going to be restocking their floors anytime soon. (I even know of dealers rejecting shipments when they arrived at their shops!)

Most dealers also have to pay flooring costs for everything sitting in their shop; sitting on a lot of inventory can be very expensive. Some of the drop in sales may be because some dealers can't restock due to credit problems. Flooring and credit have been the cause of death of many of the dealers that have closed.
Len Smith wrote:
It's not limited to scooters, bike sales have plummeted too.
Indeed. The numbers are for Piaggio group USA sales (including Aprilia and Moto Guzzi); not just scooters.

It is without a doubt a difficult time for all manufacturers and dealers.
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gogogordy wrote:
Perhaps Piaggio could've shored up the decline with the Hybrid Mp3 they dangled in front of us some time back, or some other marketing or product offerings.
I neglected to link to the original blog post in my OP (entered on iPhone):
http://blog.guidoebert.com/2010/08/01/piaggio-1h-profit-up-28-on-3-sales-growth.aspx

But, they do say:
Quote:
Piaggio also has a plan to renew its motorcycle, scooter and commercial vehicles product range, "with particular attention to development of energy efficient engines with little or zero environmental impact," the company announced in a prepared statement.
Note that they do not mention a shifting version of an LX. Goofy emoticon
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I really think much of this has to do with the two wheeled climate in the US versus that in much of the rest of the world. In Europe and elsewhere many two wheeled vehicles are purchased primarily for transportation, though they happen to be fun as well! In the US bikes are more often than not bought for recreation, meaning they are very discretional in terms of purchasing.

Sooo... when things get tight often the nice little fun things get lopped off the buying list, things that aren't necessities. In the US bikes can fall in that category for many, whereas the rest of the world might have a bit of a different picture and still see strong sales.

There are little things we can do over time to help promote the scooter, like posting to social media sites espousing the fun and efficiency off our rides to non-scooterists. Over time maybe more of them will decide to have a look and maybe open their wallets.

PS- By the way, I'm not saying that nobody uses 2 wheelers for primary transportation in this country, just that it's not as popular as in Europe.
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Maybe they are including the Canadian sales or losses as well.
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gogogordy wrote:
A backlog (albeit a shrinking one as some people cancel 4T orders) is still better than some manufacturers can hope for right now...

Perhaps Piaggio could've shored up the decline with the Hybrid Mp3 they dangled in front of us some time back, or some other marketing or product offerings.
Agreed.

I'm not sure how many remain backlogged, but I don't want to talk out of school.

I think the MP3 Hybrid would have been a total flop here. I've read some reviews from folks who have test rode them in Europe, and I can't really see a demand for a heavier, slower MP3 (until the electric kicks in) with a limited range, for more money. The reviewers I've read had been optimistic, but were not so after having had them to test.
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On the bright side the company is still profitable. If it was in the red I think we'd be seeing the Sh** hitting the fan regarding the situation in the Americas. Hopefully the profit derived from other markets will allow for time for the Americas to make a nice comeback.
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Until 2 wheels are considered transportation and not a pass time, this will not change.
This leads to the primary reasons why banks won't finance Powersports easily!
I could have sold easily another 30 scoots last year if it had not been for all the loans declined!!
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Here's the actual release from Piaggio. It's funny but they don't even mention the America's in this release.

http://www.piaggiogroup.com/investor_relations/comunicati_stampa/comunicati_stampa_2010/piaggio_group_first_half_2010_en.htm
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I won't comment about Piaggio's US marketing. But the comparison between the UK and the US needs to take into consideration the price of gasoline/petrol an the domestic attitude towards two-wheel vehicles. The higher the price of fuel will generally result in higher sales of more fuel efficient vehicles including scooters. The US, and major cities (especially NYC) are unfriendly to two-wheelers. While it is easier in terms of space to park a scoot or motorcycle, it is easier in practice to park a car in a the central business districts than two-wheelers. Generally, we are looked upon as a nuisance.
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from: http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/2/7533/Motorcycle-Article/2010-Motorcycle-Sales-Still-Down-in-Q2.aspx


1st 6 mos:....2010..........2009
Scooter:.....14,122.......16,079......-12.2


My assumption is that the above is retail sales, not sales to shops, as it is difficult to imagine 13,900 of 16,079 scooter sales being Piaggio last year.

The US scooter market is small and fragile. You can question Piaggio's marketing strategy all you want, but considering that what they sell is high end, they probably hold about 20% of the market, which isn't bad for the US, where scooters are primarily recreational vehicles. In a down economy, however, recreational sales will suffer.
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kdemas wrote:
Here's the actual release from Piaggio. It's funny but they don't even mention the America's in this release.
Considering that 3,100 scooters is less than one month of Italy sales for their top three models, why would they mention the Americas?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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As many have mentioned already, one of the main issues is that scooters in the US are looked upon as toys. Sure the sales went up when the gas prices rose, but that was before the economy tanked AND was also a trendy statement for most people.
Piaggio's marketing is horrible too. It pretty much panders to Scooters being toys. The Vespanomics angle is cute but distracting. Showing the majority of people riding around in open face helmets about to go to the beach or a picnic does not push the product as anything but a toy.
Riders should be shown in traffic, in real moto gear (full face helmets, protective suits etc) in rain or shine, beating traffic etc while getting to work.
Make the bike look like it is a serious product that can be playful on the weekends.

The entitled attitude in the US sucks too. By this I mean I know many people that feel insulted that they actually have to bother and get a moto license to ride a scoot. Again this reflects on the notion that scoots are toys, so why would one need a license to play with a toy?

Make the scooter serious. Turn it into the mullet of transportation! Business during the week, party on the weekend! Convince people that it is not just an alternative, but a solution.
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It is scary in the "here we go again" sense. I bought my GTS at a place that also (primarily) sells Chevrolet, Subaru, Toyota, Scion, and Corvette. Hopefully, they will keep supporting Vespa as my next nearest dealer is, I think, Raleigh, NC, a good two and a half hours away.
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DougL wrote:
Something seems very wrong with the Piaggio US business model and its marketing.
What marketing? There is none.

This is a sad commentary on our society, but the US economy is based on status as it relates to items owned.

I cannot recall one piece of recent advertising to suggest that owning a Vespa will make me rich, give me a full head of hair or a 19 year old underwear model for a girlfriend. And we all know it does nothing to enhance penis size.

If you want to sell a non-essential item in this country, it needs to do one of those things.
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Desmolicious wrote:
Riders should be shown in traffic, in real moto gear (full face helmets, protective suits etc) in rain or shine, beating traffic etc while getting to work.
They don't take that approach where scooters are daily riders. What makes you think that suiting people up like "Power Rangers" is going to make an American attorney or dentist see a Vespa as a daily rider?
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Aviator47 wrote:
Desmolicious wrote:
Riders should be shown in traffic, in real moto gear (full face helmets, protective suits etc) in rain or shine, beating traffic etc while getting to work.
They don't take that approach where scooters are daily riders. What makes you think that suiting people up like "Power Rangers" is going to make an American attorney or dentist see a Vespa as a daily rider?
That's because they don't need to in places where scooters are already daily riders.
In the US, they need to come up with an angle to promote scooters as serious daily riders. And obviously nothing that they have done so far has worked...
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I saw an interesting show on Honda and how motorcycles were not selling in the 60's. The common thought in the US was that motorcycles were for dirtbags (no offense) and Hells Angels, and that's about it.

So Mr. Honda himself bet the entire years advertising budget on a series of commercials culminating with an early Super Bowl ad. In these ads people, "ordinary people", were shown out riding together and having fun. Seriously, picnic baskets, you name it.

The impact? The week after the game sales surged, and stayed there. The mindset had been changed and bike sales went up from there.

Someday a creative marketer will be able (I hope) to expose the joy and efficiency of scooter riding in a compelling way, one that is fresh and appealing to a much wider audience than today. The US/North American market is too big with too much financial clout to ignore, to the creative will go the spoils.

I speak from some experience here, having run parts of marketing for major European firms in the US. Piaggio, and the wider group of two wheeled manufacturers, have to put on their creative thinking caps again and start targeting more effectively.

Sell the sizzle, not the beef
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The Harley Sales reps are saying the numbers are back normal levels. they are saying people want a bike but they just can't get the credit.
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kdemas wrote:
I saw an interesting show on Honda and how motorcycles were not selloing in the 60's. The common thought in the US was that motorcycles were for dirtbags (no offense) and Hells Angels, and that's about it.

So Mr. Honda himself bet the entire years advertising budget on a series of commercials culminating with an early Super Bowl ad.
That was the "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1959establishingamericanhonda/text08/

It targeted their 50cc moped, and along with the clever campaign sold in huge amounts as it was incredibly cheap.

Vespa has a tougher go at it as not only does it need a clever campaign, their bikes are not cheap.
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Aviator47 wrote:
Desmolicious wrote:
Riders should be shown in traffic, in real moto gear (full face helmets, protective suits etc) in rain or shine, beating traffic etc while getting to work.
They don't take that approach where scooters are daily riders. What makes you think that suiting people up like "Power Rangers" is going to make an American attorney or dentist see a Vespa as a daily rider?
I agree bike sales dropped when a state passes a helmet law.
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Desmolicious wrote:
As many have mentioned already, one of the main issues is that scooters in the US are looked upon as toys. Sure the sales went up when the gas prices rose, but that was before the economy tanked AND was also a trendy statement for most people.
Piaggio's marketing is horrible too. It pretty much panders to Scooters being toys. The Vespanomics angle is cute but distracting. Showing the majority of people riding around in open face helmets about to go to the beach or a picnic does not push the product as anything but a toy.
Riders should be shown in traffic, in real moto gear (full face helmets, protective suits etc) in rain or shine, beating traffic etc while getting to work.
Make the bike look like it is a serious product that can be playful on the weekends.

The entitled attitude in the US sucks too. By this I mean I know many people that feel insulted that they actually have to bother and get a moto license to ride a scoot. Again this reflects on the notion that scoots are toys, so why would one need a license to play with a toy?

Make the scooter serious. Turn it into the mullet of transportation! Business during the week, party on the weekend! Convince people that it is not just an alternative, but a solution.
Bull's-eye !
@aviator47 avatar
UTC

Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
Joined: UTC
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Location: Paros Island, Greece
UTC quote
175mws wrote:
The Harley Sales reps are saying the numbers are back normal levels. they are saying people want a bike but they just can't get the credit.
Harley's second quarter report:

During the second quarter of 2010, dealer retail sales of new Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 5.5 percent worldwide, 8.4 percent in the U.S. and 0.2 percent in international markets, compared to the prior-year quarter.

and

Through six months, worldwide retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 10.7 percent compared to the prior-year period. U.S. retail sales of Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 15.3 percent for the first half of the year while the U.S. heavyweight market segment was down 14.7 percent for the same period, compared to the year-ago period. In international markets, retail sales of new Harley-Davidson motorcycles decreased 1.1 percent for the first six months of 2010 compared to 2009.

As with Piaggio, Harley's US market is down considerably as compared to the rest of the world. It's all PTWs in the US that are suffering.
@luna_bay avatar
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Fly 150 dragon red
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@luna_bay avatar
Fly 150 dragon red
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UTC quote
I agree with many posters, what marketing?

Scooters are not on peoples radar. Its viewed as an extravagance not a useful piece of transportation. While many people in the Bay Area commute round trip over 80 miles per day and for whatever reason may not want to ride a scooter to work, showing how a scooter could be used on the weekends for grocery shopping, trips to Farmers markets, and regular errands around the community would be a great alternative to getting in the SUV.

Market and promote the usefulness not just the fun.
@kdemas avatar
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Aprilia Mojito Custom 150, Aprilia SR50
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@kdemas avatar
Aprilia Mojito Custom 150, Aprilia SR50
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UTC quote
Desmolicious wrote:
kdemas wrote:
I saw an interesting show on Honda and how motorcycles were not selloing in the 60's. The common thought in the US was that motorcycles were for dirtbags (no offense) and Hells Angels, and that's about it.

So Mr. Honda himself bet the entire years advertising budget on a series of commercials culminating with an early Super Bowl ad.
That was the "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign
http://world.honda.com/history/challenge/1959establishingamericanhonda/text08/

It targeted their 50cc moped, and along with the clever campaign sold in huge amounts as it was incredibly cheap.

Vespa has a tougher go at it as not only does it need a clever campaign, their bikes are not cheap.
Desmolicious- Nice snag, that's it. And you're right, there are even more challenges today.

The largest in the US, I believe, was mentioned a few posts ago....credit. Credit for things like cars/bikes is still VERY tight, making it hard for the average Joe to jump in and make a purchase. Unlike Europe credit purchases are a major driver of all big ticket sales and right now the cash is just not flowing through the system.

All very interesting, good thread.
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 300 Super
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Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 300 Super
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Location: Puerto Rico / Texas / Barcelona
UTC quote
AlexBv200 wrote:
Until 2 wheels are considered transportation and not a pass time, this will not change.
This leads to the primary reasons why banks won't finance Powersports easily!
I could have sold easily another 30 scoots last year if it had not been for all the loans declined!!
The car culture in the US is not helping !!
@mmsd avatar
UTC

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Piaggio BV500, Sym HD200
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Location: San Diego
 
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@mmsd avatar
Piaggio BV500, Sym HD200
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Location: San Diego
UTC quote
Ok, I'm new to the forum and to scooting in this part of life anyway. Aging my self a bit I had a Puch moped in the late late seventies (now am 45). I had the time of my life living the southern California beach lifestyle in Del Mar CA. It was stolen after two years and I always have wanted another scooter/moped. I did more "beachy" things with Puch than all the years after without it.

So, at 45 I'm now riding my Sym HD200 and the Piaggio BV500 and having the time of my life again IT'S ALL ABOUT LIFESTYLE/FUN and enjoying the beautiful world where I live.

For me and I hope a smart "non-save the planet" (yawn...) marketing campaign might use - It's about doing the things you wanted to do but don't seem to in your car. I get itchy late at night finding myself in front of a stupid television and ask myself "why?!?" so I ride up the coast to a local beach harbor where the families have left their fires in the fire rings burning and under the stars kick back by the beach fires I'd always meant to have, but just never got around to it in my car. I cruise the coast line of La Jolla at sunset (just minutes away) several times a week now - but as before, just never seemed to get to in the car. I ride up the mountain roads to Julian at least once a week - it goes by so quickly I now go over the mountain down the other side before I turn around. Beautiful pastoral scenes unfold with cows, horses, sheep and even camels! Not to mention the forest and twisty roads.

I have never been more happy and alive in my life!! As un-popular as it will sound - I never gave the fuel costs and any other factor a second thought. It's about me out in the beautiful world, the road and my soul.

If I could only bottle my scooter smile and the uplift to my soul while engaging in my beautiful environment - only a dried ol' poop of an individual wouldn't do whatever it took to go scooting.

Just my thoughts on the subject and hope it wasn't a bore.
@gogogordy avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Location: Winchester, California
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@gogogordy avatar
Reprehensible Misinformant
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Location: Winchester, California
UTC quote
MMSD wrote:
Ok, I'm new to the forum and to scooting in this part of life anyway. Aging my self a bit I had a Puch moped in the late late seventies (now am 45). I had the time of my life living the southern California beach lifestyle in Del Mar CA. It was stolen after two years and I always have wanted another scooter/moped. I did more "beachy" things with Puch than all the years after without it.

So, at 45 I'm now riding my Sym HD200 and the Piaggio BV500 and having the time of my life again IT'S ALL ABOUT LIFESTYLE/FUN and enjoying the beautiful world where I live.

For me and I hope a smart "non-save the planet" (yawn...) marketing campaign might use - It's about doing the things you wanted to do but don't seem to in your car. I get itchy late at night finding myself in front of a stupid television and ask myself "why?!?" so I ride up the coast to a local beach harbor where the families have left their fires in the fire rings burning and under the stars kick back by the beach fires I'd always meant to have, but just never got around to it in my car. I cruise the coast line of La Jolla at sunset (just minutes away) several times a week now - but as before, just never seemed to get to in the car. I ride up the mountain roads to Julian at least once a week - it goes by so quickly I now go over the mountain down the other side before I turn around. Beautiful pastoral scenes unfold with cows, horses, sheep and even camels! Not to mention the forest and twisty roads.

I have never been more happy and alive in my life!! As un-popular as it will sound - I never gave the fuel costs and any other factor a second thought. It's about me out in the beautiful world, the road and my soul.

If I could only bottle my scooter smile and the uplift to my soul while engaging in my beautiful environment - only a dried ol' poop of an individual wouldn't do whatever it took to go scooting.

Just my thoughts on the subject and hope it wasn't a bore.
Not a boring reply at all to me, I understand where you are coming from....I kind of think this type of leisure-lifestyle thing HAS been their marketing focus but unfortunately it's not a strong enough message to make for sustainable business transactions.

These have to go from leisure-luxury-toy to viable, real world transportation in the American public's eye in order to make things more European and viable.
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