Modern Vespa

The funny thing is that all their marketing is aimed solely at the youngest demographic, while the truth is that a large number of buyers are actually just like the poster above, who is rediscovering the joys of riding after their kids have grown. You won't see a single 45 plus year old in a vespa ad.

- An Old guy.

No not an old guy I'm still an immature teenager at heart and in some deeds anyway. I guess it's the rebel in me.

My boys are 8 & 13 not close to out of the nest yet. I'll get them to be scooter-heads before they're out of the house .

From what I can tell looking at their Annual Report, "Americas" is essentially North America, with 88% of that market being the USA.

My take is that Max is right on: in the USA, 2009 was the beginning of the end of the (gas-propelled) scooter bubble, and the market started reacting. Dealers bought less inventory.

Kdemas is also spot on. In the US, PTW are not a necessity but rather a recreational vehicle (in short: toy).

Piaggio offering hybrid PTW (T can mean two or three here) is not the solution for the US. As we see now, with gas prices perceived as bearable, even highly fuel-efficient gasoline scooters don't sell. Why would more expensive hybrids sell better?

Vespa, the brand, is not equal to generic scooters, who could be (and are) a niche solution to low-cost mobility (look at university towns!).
Vespa is equal to nostalgia, to a feeling. That, and its price, limits it to being a toy for the well-heeled or those who could get credit while that was not an issue. In the US, banks are "helping" buyers to be more realistic with their spending, to live within their means. That is not a good climate for expensive toys. Vespa is feeling that.

Glancing at global numbers, it appears that the US are by far not a key market for Piaggio. That's good, because the drop is from a low level, so it doesn't hurt (Piaggio) that much. 76% lower sales for a high-key market would be catastrophic.

The future for piagio or any other two wheeled form of transport in the U.S. will most likely be as a hobby.

As I type we can go out and purchase cars that will get very close to the MPG of a scooter. Soon as battery technology becomes more refined gas powered scooters may well be looked at as "Gas Guzzlers". With climate change being what it already is, and highway crowding getting worse and worse, people running people over on the streets daily to get to Mcdonalds. Its insane and doing nothing but getting worse with more and more gadgets for cagers to play with while driving coming on line everyday.
As much as I love my bikes, I cant for the life of me look at my beloved Nations past, present, and the near future and see the average American using scoots as a viable form of transport in the future.
Maybe Piagio is thinking likewise

Is your scoot your only form of transport? Why? Exactly my point...

I'm proud to be able to say yes to this.

Wouldn't be the case if I lived far outside the city though. I have public transit to fall back on in the VERY cold winter months

I agree with one poster above who commented on the lack of advertising being part of Piaggio's problem here in America...IMO, it's a BIG part of their problem!

At the very least, Vespa's marketing department is guilty of gross incompetence/mismanagement: I have NEVER seen a Vespa commercial on ANY of the number of channels I watch on TV. I see Harely commercials, a rare Honda commercial, some Can-Am commercials...but not one about Vespas...or Piaggio, not even MP3 commercials. They should be buying air time regularly...at least until sales pick up (which I think more TV spots would inspire).

So if there is such a problem with sales here in the US, why isn't Vespa/Piaggio ADVERTISING?

Most people in America don't think about anything unless they see something about it on TV...so get Vespa on TV. If Harley (which is doing fairly well considering the "recession") sees the need to advertise, so all the more should Vespa (which apparently is NOT doing well) if they want to do better here.

It's not their scooters -- they're quality products -- Piaggio's "weakest link" is its very own marketing department!

Purchasing a Vespa 250/300 is quite expensive when compared to the many used bikes and far east scooter. Also, unless you are intown, driving a scooter to work is more dangerous than driving on weekends for pleasure. This absolutely weighs on alot of peoples minds. Vespa has a great line....its just a tough sell for the recreationalist with everyone's businesses struggling to survive.

The scarcity of bikes in 2008 during the gas crisis and scoot selling boom of all scooter brands caused dealers to floorplan way more bikes in 2009 and they are now sitting on them because they ordered way too many and gas prices fell and economy tanked. It is almost always better to be a few short than have way too many in inventory. Harley Davidson used to have the waiting list and they turned BIG profits. Supply wasn't enough for demand and it worked better.

I think once dealers get rid of old inventory by selling what they have at or below cost the smaller numbers of bikes ordered will stabilize in the market. It is a good time for dealers to sell those leftovers at cost and gain loyal followers who will bring their bikes in for service and repairs etc. My local dealer is doing just that. You can buy a new 2009 Piaggio Fly 150 for $1999...talk about a lot of bike for the $

We will see many dealers close but the strong will survive and keep Piaggio here. Vespa stand alone dealers will be a thing of the past. My local dealer here in Chicago just took on the Triumph line. They are Now Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilia Scooters and Triumph. If I was Vespa I would be hitting all the Big motorcycle dealers to take a line like Vespa/Harley, Vespa/Kawasaki, Vespa/Honda etc.. They also need to do a better job advertising and targeting nitch markets.

Also scaling backall models brought here would probably help by not giving so many choices. Most of the Piaggio line can go with the exception of the MP3. We also could do without 3 different Vespa 50cc and 3 different 150cc models.

Piaggio's downfall is the lack of dealer parts, good mechanics and good dealers. Seems it's hit or miss on them all. When i had my Honda Helix i had no problems at all with getting it fixed or with any parts i needed. To say "it's Italian" doesn't fly when you want parts or a good mechanic to work on that expensive vespa scooter you just bought. The USA is huge compared to Europe and we think nothing of driving 100 miles for a job. They don't do that in Europe. Plus most of the US has winter more than half the year with lots of snow,ice etc. Scooters are seen as a luxury especially once you get out of the big cities. That said states could help with giving free tolls on toll roads,free parking and a host of other enticements to scooter owners. That get more people to ride. Plus they need to change their advertising to an older demographic. Not saying young people don't know what vespa's are but most cannot afford them. Plus the younger crowd knows the name Honda and Yamaha because of their ATV's, Jet ski's etc.

Once the scooter market starts recovering, I would like to see Lambretta bring back THEIR classic scooter (upgraded only enough to meet current emmission regs and reliability) rather than the "modern-looking" scooters they're selling now, which look like so many other scooters, even those brand-of-the-month Chinese scooters. What's with the executive suits at Lambretta? Bring back your classic scooter, idiots!

As many of us like the "classic" Vespa design, I think lots of us would also like the "classic" Lambretta styling. If Lambretta wants to compete with Vespa, THAT is the scooter to do it with, not the boring, common-looking plastic stuff they have now.

...sort of like the old Harley vs. Indian rivalry, if you will.

Classic Vespa vs. classic Lambretta...now THAT would be a nice choice to have!

MMSD,
You gave a very prosaic description of the joys of scootering. I am a wee bit older than you (I can't believe 70) and took up scooting after a long hiatus. I have a BV500, my wife has a BV250 and in February, I bought an Aprilia Mana GT (automatic motorcycle). Your description of riding the coast in the San Diego area parallels our experience riding the mountains of Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado. We are having so damn much fun we can hardly stand it!
Thanks for relating your experience on your new ride.

The old Honda commercials were hilarious...Look even priests can do wheelies:

The commercials were really about rebranding bikes. Currently they are seen as fun acessories; which is why you see so many that are sold used with a handful of miles. They are fun, but they are also a viable means of transport. Mine is my primary vehicle, and by having it instead of an extra car I get 300-500$ a month to spend on other things. Vespa runs into the problem where it is a large cash investment with the credit so poor and that they are the most expensive scooters on the market. If I wasn't able to buy a used one for super cheap I would have bought a Genuine. Even with the reliability issues I see more lance's around here than Vespa's because you can get one out the door for under 2k.

MMSD and Desmolicious are both spot-on with their "soul filling" and "mullet machine" marketing theme analogies. The problem? PiaggioUSA spends nothing on U.S. advertising. It's all on the dealers' shoulders. Yup, the same dealers who are sitting on 26 months of inventory and huge flooring bills.

The best Vespa advertising we have in the states is when YOU'RE seen riding YOUR bike to: work, the store, joyriding, etc. When you do, you infect others with the notion that scooters are (surprisingly!) a)viable, b)not likely to kill you, c)fun, d)efficient, e)...insert other benefits here. That's how the non-rider gets the message.

Advertising can't make someone want something they have no interest in. But it can connect the dots. Ride. Evangelize. And ride some more.

And maybe, one day, Piaggio will spend a couple of bucks to connect those dots and drive some traffic to the Vespa dealerships.

Piaggio may disappear but Vespa never will. Just my 2 cents.

Which is unfortunate. Fewer older riders need credit to buy a Vespa than younger riders just getting started in life. They've been in the workforce longer and many have money in the bank.

What about the older motorcycle crowd who are tired of the silly Ricky Racer and Fat Cruiser bikes. Older people tend not to give a shit what other people think of them and wouldn't be intimidated to ditch their motorcycle for a Vespa if they saw the value.

After 45 years on motorcycles, I switched to Vespa in 2007 and haven't looked back. The scoot is far more spontaneous, practical, utilitarian, weather proof, and just plain fun than a straddle bike. Piaggio should consider pushing the real applicatioans of their machines and give the adolescent campaign a rest.

I see more scooters around every year. When I bought my Buddy 3 years ago I rarely saw another scooter in Houston outside of the Heights area of town. Now I rarely go a day without seeing at least one.

In Breckenridge 2 years ago I saw 3 scooters in town besides the occasional Burgman or Silverwing, mostly ridden by folks up from Denver. This summer I've seen 4 Vespas, 1 Stella, 2-3 Buddys and at least 5 other "unknown" brands. That's in addition to the Sports City and BV we have up here.

When I took the BV 500 into Denver for service I was given an ET 2 for a loaner to run errands while they were working on the BV (tracking down why the speedo was off by 50% reading 55 instead of the 79 the GPS said.) I couldn't believe the number of scoots I saw in downtown Denver. Seemed like I saw one or more every half dozen blocks.

There are plenty of folks who would buy scooters but they can't get a loan as mentioned by others in this thread.

I've done my part here by buying two off the showroom floor. I think a little more grass roots visibility with local Vespa clubs would help keep our favorite scoots in the public eye.

I wonder how much of these sales issues are caused by financing or lack thereof.

+1

There is no Lambretta motorsports-type company anymore, really. It is now just a collection of licensees of the name. And getting access to that internationally to produce and distribute scooters is damned near impossible.

little to none

People who want to buy a Vespa don't do so out of necessity. They know what they can afford.

Maybe I'm just goofy, but am I the only one who thinks it's weird that the top 2 scooters on the list aren't even offered in the us? What's a Honda Italia? I'd be all over an injected BV300.

I don't know about you guys, but I see more and more chinese garbage on the streets every day. As well as more sensible folks out there on syms and kymcos.

Vespa is a premium item in the states and are priced as such. Lots more Fords out on the street than audis.

Not even the fly prices right with the deals you can get on Honda mets and yamaha vinos.

Its hard to be a daily rider when you have to wait 2 weeks for a part to come in. AND if the wrong part comes in, its another two weeks. My dealer tells me that Honda will ship the parts directly from Japan if they dont have it available in the US.

Bad Business Practices Indeed. Their behavior has turned me off and I will not buy another new Vespa, at least until they change their policies (which means never).

Im a daily rider and Piaggio sucks when it comes to the Unlimited Mileage Extended Warranty, they dont wanna cover crap, "sorry we cover the clutch up to 4k" and if your have a body claim, well "If you had claimed that with lower mileage, then it wouldnt be a problem", WTF is the "UNLIMITED MILEAGE WARRANTY" good for then. They pick and choose what they want to cover, the poor dealer has to put in a claim, they approve it, then it has to be reviewed by someone else. My dealers a Motorsports dealer (lucky for that) and they tell me how easy Hondas warranty claims process is compared to Piaggios warranty claims process.

Its too bad because I really wanted a 300 aka 278cc some day.

Ride Safe
Manny

+1

With all the cries for more advertising, has anyone estimated how much a comprehensive ad campaign might cost? Has anyone here managed a national advertising campaign?

Advertising runs about 2 to 7% of a company's sales. Let's say Piaggio goes wild and spends 10%, or $4.2 million of it's 2009 gross sales, on an ad campaign. That may soulnd like big bucks, but cheap (other than prime programs) national TV spots run about $100,000 for 30 seconds. That's 42 TV commercials. They could run one a day for 6 weeks, in less than prime time, and the budget would be depleted.

What demographic will you go for? Harley made inroads in the under 35 market, but not as a daily ride, but with lower priced ($8,000) bikes using themes such as "About six bucks a day. Cheaper than your smokes, a six-pack, a lap dance, a bar tab, another tattoo, a parking ticket, a gas station burrito, bail, cheap sunglasses or more black T-shirts." In short, still going for the "rebel" crowd, but at a lower price point. Is there a Piaggio product that can make inroads into this market?

What "sizzle" is Harley selling? Is this indicative of a "practical, daily ride"?


We are preaching to the choir here. Could it be that most of the people with wants and needs like the US members of MV already have a Vespa? How much ad money would it take to stimulate similar wants and needs in the remainder of the US population?

Unfortunately (for the scooter industry), high fuel prices in the US did not last long enough to sustain a shift to scooters as daily rides. Coupled with sufficient discretionary income at the time, it simply fueled a fad. Now you have "reasonable" fuel prices and less willingness or ability to make discretionary purchases.

In the US, the PTW is still seen as a recreational vehicle. Can you use it to go to Costco, take the kids to soccer practice, ride to work in all weather, etc? Can a company with $42 million in sales budget enough marketing dollars to create a culture shift? Harley didn't try to do that. They have just been adjusting their product line to make their more affordable products visible to a wider audience of recreational, "escape" customers. But, when you have products that range from $8,000 to $40,000, you have room to maneuver. And, Harley has not tried to cause a culture shift, but has just made the Harley culture available at lower prices.

My buddy whos an old shifty Vespa rider bought his wife a Met because Vespa is too expensive. He can afford the Vespa but he didnt think it was worth it, so they bought a Met and she rides it daily, hot or cold.

That's probably a good thing considering how irresponsible consumers in the U.S. have been with credit over the last decade or more. Record numbers of irresponsible home owners walking away from their homes because they are upside down. Creditors have also made it too easy to borrow your way to the poor house here. I personally believe making credit harder to get will be a good thing in the long term.

-Craig

Vespa needs to up their marketing. They could start by including a free cheeseburger to anyone who buys a vespa.

If Vespa's plan to stay in the USA is solely done by not spending any advertising $$ here whatsoever then so be it.

I'd rather have them stay here and not spend millions on advertising then have the advertising campaign flop costing them millions and causing them to pull out (again).

That and the fact that when finance companies come looking for default bikes they are so easy to hide.

I used to believe that the advertising is off market, but perhaps it isn't.

I don't believe that showing the middle-age buying public on a Vespa will sell more scooters than depicting a younger crowd on the scooter. Advertising is about selling the dream, not the reality.

I'd be interested in learning from an advertiser what is more persuasive to the middle-aged Vespa buying demographic. Picturing a middle-aged person on the scooter, or the younger person we used to be?

What kind of advertising etc... are they using in Europe to effectively drive scooter sales?

Basically none.

I don't think it is just Piaggio that's hurting. We just lost an all singing and dancing Honda dealer in Windsor, near me.

They sold mowers, a full line of motorcycles and scooters as well as ATV's.

The local Kawasaki - Suzuki dealer is not doing that well either.

The Harley dealer seems to be holding its own.

The downturn is still turning down in my locale.

Doug is correct - there is next to no advertising.

The UK is Vespa's second largest market in the world after Italy. They don't need to advertise much because -

a) The utility of Vespa is well established over the last 50 years
b) In London, the current congestion charge makes them even more practical because you don't have to pay
c) Expensive? Well the utility of them overrides that, and the reputation of quality and longevity ensures that there are more Vespa on the streets here than anywhere else.
d) They are cheap to fix and run

Every day is free advertising for Vespa here. Every time you see an attractive person on one its advertising. Vespa riders here are a younger demographic.

Europe is scooter country for a few good reasons. In the post WW2 era the economies were shattered and that is what they had to have so they are accustomed to the idea. Also have you been to Europe and seen the parking and inner city roads? A scooter is the only practical transport. I love the place but its no place for a car.

This has affected the image factor there. You can be cool and ride a scooter. I think that generally there is less of the tough is better attitude in Europe.

The image factor is very prevalent in the US and Australia. Scooters were laughable and only for poor people and limp wrists who were scared of the power of a real bike. Also the old scooters were not a highway proposition. Of course in Europe the villages are a couple of miles apart.


Small road bikes are a tiny market in Aus. Harley and other big road bikes are the only bikes with street cred. Even if you dont buy this crap yourself other riders try to shove it down your throat by making comments about the scooter. (as if owning a harley or ducati makes you tough or a racer)

A big bike is a pure ego toy. I know I have owned lots of big machines and the GT200 is more fun, way cheaper and much more rideable and practical.

I was doing the same thing buying bigger and heavier each bike. It was ridiculous as the things could do the speed limit in first gear. Total waste and speed cameras and licence points mean all these guys on racetrack capable missiles sitting on the speed limit. It used to make me frustrated and the bike didnt like it either. I found myself riding my wifes scooter as it was easier to get out and more fun. Then one day I just sold my latest big toy and got a GT200. Much happier now.

There would need to be a pretty good advertising campaign to get over the scooter bias in the US and Australia.

Totally totally right.

Then Piaggio/Vespa owes me a few $Million.