Modern Vespa

You know when you've been spending the last 1000 years trying to kill each other and conquering other bits of the globe, you stop caring nearly as much about that.

Oh no, a continent destroyed and all I have to get around with is this apparently limp wristed transport. At least I'm still alive! Hooray! Who wants to wear tight clothing, drink heavily, get a bad haircut and dance?

Europe - we made all the mistakes so the rest of the world doesn't have to.

Maybe I missed an important point here....

Gasoline prices in NYC area are under $3 per gallon. In NJ the price for gasoline is $2.50/Gallon!

I still get angry when I see a Chevy Suburban Beast at a Gas Station that needs 30+ gallons of gas fill-up.

The US market will become more scooter friendly when Gas prices go above $4 -5 per gallon.

We are a spoiled nation of Gas Guzzlers!

Sorry for my vent here....

G

After reading all the posts in this thread I agree with nearly all of them but much hasnt been made on the cost of a new vespa.

I've been trying to scoop up a Piaggio BV500 (not even a fancy VESPA) recently and the price is absurd when compared to reliable mc (ie Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki ...)

In a recession luxury products suffer the most. I can easily get commute on my Kymco P250 at much cheaper then my Vespa brethren can. And until things pick up (if they ever do), I intend to!

It's probably true that while the middle aged person will buy something they see advertised for younger people, the reverse is not as likely. The Honda Element (car) was aimed directly at the 20-something market but they ended up selling more of them to people in their 40s and 50s. And once the 20-somethings saw mom and dad driving the Element it was no longer considered cool.

You really get angry? I find that statement hilarious btw. Just picturing a self righteous, helmeted scooterist standing by a fuel pump glaring at SUV's and shaking a fist at them.


I am thinking sales will get back to normal lows in north america when (if) the economy improves. On the bright side my Piaggio stock is up.

Modern Vespas have been in the North American marketplace for almost ten years now. To me the crucial parameter of their continued success will be the number of repeat customers they attract. Without that core group of dedicated owners, I don't think Piaggio will be able to survive in the cyclical North American market.

It has already been noted that the motor culture in the states is different from Europe (and we should not forget Asia, it is not unusual to see a whole family on a scooter). America because of its size and scale will never be just like Europe or other parts of the world and vice versa.

America is the iconic automobile culture and it has many positive aspects. Suburbia and the great distance between cities makes the automobile an intrinsic element of American life. This can be noted in the absence of well integrated public transportation systems (yes, I know there are exceptions).

I doubt we are going to make a significant change in this aspect of American culture. Our infrastructure and attitudes toward PTWs is not as supportive of scooters and motorcycles as I would like it to be.

Personally, I bought a scooter for the fun factor. I'm also slap happy that it is a functional and efficient means of transportation.

Well, at least if they (collective "they"...not exclusive to Vespa, or Piaggio but all PTW manufacturers) advertised the functional/practical side of PTW riding in markets that have a demonstrated viable use of them that way, a paradigm shift in the US may begin to take hold.

Metro NY, Seattle, Portland, SF and some other cities are known among the scooterists community as "scooter-friendly" cities, no doubt with a much higher number of practical users here, than in say LA where the riders tend to be more recreational.

If advertising where regionalized a bit, focusing on creating more of this behavior where it already exists, it could help exploit the transportation, vs recreation side of the market. Maybe even use some real-world scooter warriors as subject in the cities they actually live/work/ride in.
Advertising by example.

I understand the recreational aspect of the PTW market in the US, but as recent events in the economy have proven, that market is fickle and there are other vertical markets largely un-catered to in this country by the PTW industry.

Why the rage? I'm just glad I don't have to pay the petrol bill. If someone wants to drive an SUV and another wants to drive a a 50cc Chinese scooter then I know I'm in America. More power to them!

Save your rage for the time when you can no longer drive a Porsche Cayenne because it is too luxurious--by someone else's standard--and you are legally bound to drive a Trabant (if you don't know what that is Google it) or a hybrid. Then you know you are in the twilight zone of neo-socialism.

Save the whales, save the planet and rage against those who drive SUVs? Try a little kindness

Agreed. Well said IMHO. It will indeed take a paradigm shift in order for their to be cultural shift. I'm glad it is happening in some US cities. I'd dig it. 8)

To add to what the other posters have written, the suburban is one of the few SUVs on the market that takes Flex Fuel. You can go 240 miles on 3 gallons of petrol gas if you know which stations have flex fuel pumps.

This.

IMO, the way to improve upon the situation in North America is to market where scooters can really be helpful. Larger cities where transportation is either in two distinct flavors - public or autos - is a place to direct more effort. This not only includes advertising but also a shift in product development. Make an affordable and stylish scoot that you can use to get around a city and you'll have a lot more people visiting your dealerships.

Unfortunately, the current economy doesn't support "fun," only "functional."

Yea, for what they are Suburbans are really not that bad on gas, especially compared to many other offerings in their class.

A few years back my parents had a 5.3 V8 4x4 Yukon that got way better gas mileage than their 2.5 v6 4x4 Grand Vitara which was literally 1/2 the size.

Yes. Because the late models all convert from eight cylinders down to four cylinders when the car is traveling at a constant speed.

While it's true that the entire powersports industry is suffering in this recession, I don't think other major companies have seen anything close to a 76.7% decline in sales volume. It sucks that other companies are doing poorly, other locally-owned dealerships closing, but my primary concern is scooter shops, manufacturers and distributors.

Piaggio Americas' 76.7% drop is a reduction in deliveries to dealers (not scooters sold to buyers), which is pretty much indicative that their practice of requiring them to take on massive amounts of stock works only for the company. This would mean that their volume for the first half of 2009 (13,200 units vs. 3,100 in 2010) was grossly over-reported. (Volume for all of 2009 was off the mark; the second half of 2009, the volume was only 5,000 units.)

While volume in 2009 was 41.2% less than the previous year (consistent with much of the powersports industry), Piaggio is going to show huge declines in 2010 that aren't consistent with the industry. Compare their 76.7% drop to an industry-wide decline of only 18% (according to MIC) for first half of 2010. Scooter sales are down 12%. (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, and Piaggio are the only companies that report to MIC, btw.)

Effective marketing isn't going to solve Piaggio Americas' problems and make up for such a drastic reduction. How much scooter marketing do you see for Honda and Yamaha, which still lead the industry in scooter sales in the US?

There are internal Piaggio business practices that contribute to the decline and which are not in the interest of building a long-term sustainable presence in the US. Dumping stock on dealers in the interest of reporting higher-than-actual sales volume is one. The group product lineup is confusing to first time buyers and competes with itself. The company over-expanded in the past few years, allowing dealerships in markets that can't support them or overcrowding some regions (e.g., SoCal).

Fixing these things and improving the company's viability and success in the market doesn't require a huge shift in American attitudes about transportation. They have nothing to do with gas prices or the recession, which has just served to exacerbate and expose existing problems.

Maybe the "Suburban Beast" always drives with a family of 8 making an implied 160MPG. And can tow Gianni when he gets a flat without a problem.

Or just maybe it's none of our fucking business

Live And Let Live

Suzuki did worse. A 100% drop.
They did not import any street bikes for 2010.

I agree, its sad to see Vespa sales drop. I think there are probably several
factors that contribute to this condition. Vespa's are expensive. My new
LX150ie was close to $5000.00 out the door including tax, set up, license etc.
This creates a wall for a lot of buyers. Our economy is slow and a lot of
people are very uncertain of their future and are reluctant to spend the extra
dollars for a quality machine. We are flooded with cheap bikes from
China and they are becoming more the norm then not. I see a lot more
of the cheapies then I do Honda's or Yamaha's on the road. And, I think
the perception of quality has changed and just isn't as important in general
as it was before. If the price is right, so is the machine. Its too bad, but
a fact of life here in the good ole USA. And like many have mentioned, gas
is still fairly cheap.

I hate to say it, but some of the Chinese bikes are getting a little better in quality. They're still not very good, but I worry they might get better.

+1 Though marketing won't solve Piaggio's issues, it can certainly help.

Piaggio USA's market has consistently been demographically off-target. They're not communicating the right messages, too.

They continue to push Vespanomics, which wasn't feasible when gas was $5 a gallon and, for most buyers, is much less so now. At this point, they're basically making an argument for reliable but less-expensive scooters. Some of the Vespanomics messaging is good (reduce consumption, decrease congestion, promote two-wheel parking) but they've failed to connect these aspects to the product.

As gogogordy mentioned, the vertical aspect is largely ignored. Honda doesn't try to sell a Rebel and a Gold Wing the same way, to the same people with the same messaging. The Piaggio and Aprilia scooters, in particular, suffer from a lack of attention and consumer confusion about their differences (and pricing).

That Honda commercial made me want a Honda!

Eric-

The motive you ascribe to Piaggio here is pure speculation. Also, the info being tossed around is a mixture of apples and oranges. Is MIC reporting retail sales or sales to dealers?

The scooter market is minuscule, and always has been. Being "tops" in a minuscule market is even more minuscule.

The situation is further compounded in the North American market by the imposition of "model years" on a product that is not subject to same anywhere else in the world that actually purchases 95+% of that product. So less than 5% of the world's production is burdened with an arbitrary "shelf life" in terms of being new stock. Makes production planning a rather difficult task.

Since NA market Piaggio products must come from discreet production runs, over and under production is always a danger. Can't just grab a couple of Euro spec scooters, mod them, change the VIN and ship them to the States to meet a "demand". Someone has to "warehouse" overproduction, should that occur, and having last year's models in a warehouse in Secaucus ain't gonna sell them, even if they are "sale priced". The key in finite life retail operations (and model years do create a form of finite life) is to have as much stock out front as possible.

Wow! Just took a look at this thread...Amazed at the reactions....

I guess it is safer to take it out on a fellow MV'er than on the road....

Ride Safe,

G

It wasn't that long ago that "Made in Taiwan" got the same reaction as "Made in China" does now. Taiwanese manufacturers learned a lot through partnerships with European and American companies. We're seeing the same process in China (and Vietnam) now. Ironically, some of it is due to Taiwanese companies producing there. What comes around...

Unfortunately, it probably doesn't mean the end of the awful budget probably illegally-imported $1K scooter anytime soon.

Not to worry, I'm sure some emerging country will eventually fill the "need" for absurdly cheap, low-quality manufacturing.

+1
Too bad for Aprilia because they arguably are some of the best bang for your buck scoots made.

Effective marketing isn't going to make up for such a drastic reduction....but effective marketing is going to be...more effective, and that would have a positive effect on their sales numbers.

IMO, some of the business practices you've described above (which I agree with 100%) as problematic also fall into the "marketing" category....as how they market to (and treat) their dealer body, their direct customers.

The manufacturers can either be seen as a partner to, or an adversary of the dealer and that is where some other manufacturers differ.

They've been on the ropes for awhile....but have several new 2011's in the pipeline. Maybe they were smart by sitting 2010 out and watching from the sidelines?

This thread is approaching "thread-tastic"....thought-provoking and interesting from all corners of the globe!

The GY6 motor is turning out to a decent motor per the Ruckus builders. They use them for the 50cc engine swaps.

It's not just Vespa that can't find the youth market. It seems that today's youth doesn't care about scooters at all. Motorcycle-usa.com had a really interesting write up on the Yamaha Zuma 125 scoot, and that bike's styling appeals to kids more so than Vespa's more matured/classic styling:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/281/5564/Motorcycle-Article/2010-Yamaha-Zuma-125-First-Ride.aspx Maybe Vespa should market their bikes at the older crowd. It seems that nowadays kids do not care or cannot afford, scooters. Think about it. A must have item is an IPhone with all the plans. That can run into several hundred $$$ a month. Which is the payment on a scooter, easily.
It's sad that a scooter loses out to a phone...

Yup, in the US the drop in scooter sales seems to not be a Vespa issue but a market issue. But Vespa needs to realize where its market is.

The Zuma has nice options like this, this scoot is owned by older guy and not a kid.

I had one of the first 125 Zumas in the USA tricked out. GREAT BIKE.

These are really custom, they are lowered and stretched.

I know the people who own those from Zumaforums.

I had all the performance goodies on mine, but in the end with all the work done to it, was still a Zuma, a very expensive Zuma.

A few days after returning from Amerivespa 2009 I walked into my dealer and bought the 300. I simply had to have one.

The motive may be my interpretation, but it's commonly discussed that Piaggio pushes a lot of stock on its dealers (some of whom have told me this firsthand, often using stronger language than "pushes"). In the end, the result was the same: 2009 sales to dealers were drastically higher than consumer demand. As a result dealers were sitting on so much stock that the volumes for 2010 have fallen precipitously.

There could be other reasons. Dealers may have over-ordered after 2008's run. Maybe Piaggio grossly overestimated demand for 2009, produced way too many scoots for the US. But the 2010 decrease in the Americas is much higher than in any of Piaggio's other units. So something, somewhere seems to have gone very awry and I find it hard to attribute that entirely to miscalculation.

The Piaggio USA sales reported by MIC are sales to dealers. I'm unsure whether this is the case with other companies (I'm scanning annual reports that cite MIC figures but don't specify if they're dealer or consumer sales). I'll try contacting the MIC and see if they'll tell me.

I say this only partially joking . . .

I guarantee that Vespa sales would jump if there were an integrated iPhone port and a Vespa specific app (that perhaps pulled fuel consumption and travel data, etc.).

LOVE the FOP Badge

Marketing? What marketing?

This is the only TV ad I can remeber featuring a Vespa -- it's for BMWs and the pitch is people riding Vespas, buses and bicycles will admire you as you whiz by them getting 28 miles per gallon. Watch and weep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rZNBmXMuqQ

Keep in mind, as I stated above, NA is the only market where Piaggio has to deal with "model years", and that, coupled with the requirement for making NA market machines in discreet production runs is very significant. Sort of like dealing with quantum numbers.

If a miscalculation over stocks the channels of distribution, manufacturing several quanta of the next model year is fool hearty. As someone mentioned, Sukuki appears to have skipped the 2010 model year. It's a real planning nightmare when you are dealing in relatively small numbers, as compared to all other markets. If Piaggio sent too many Vespas to Greece, they can be redistributed to many other EU markets. If they send too few to Greece, Italy market machines can be diverted to Greece. N.A. market Vespas can only be sold in N.A. Yes, but as I stated, keeping 2009s in a warehouse creates its own problems. Especially when the model year is finished. Having stock on the floor of a showroom is more likely to move it than it being available "on order", especially once it is last year's stuff. I'm not saying it's an optimal situation, just an understandable one. Someone over estimated 2009 demand. Could have been Piaggio all by themselves, and they could have had help from their dealer network. Neither of us knows. What we do know is that if was made for N.A., that's the only place where it can be sold.

Add to the above that Vespa is a higher end scooter, in a market that is immature and poorly defined in North America, and it gets even squirrelier.

Piaggio may not be doing what is pleasing to us on MV, but most of us have already bought our machines. The expansion of the market needs people other than "us". If the "us" is saturated, then they need to stimulate new markets, and the image of PTWs and economics may be stifling the emergence of that new market segment. Take a look at consumer spending in the US. People are cutting back on groceries, and we are expecting Piaggio to be able to stimulate PTW sales?

It's time to get realistic about how the general population is willing to spend its discretionary dollars, and how much money a $14 million sales operation can spend to make scooters seem non-discretionary.

flanman- have you ever considered how many Vespas Piaggio would have to sell to pay for a $100,000, 30 second one time, non-prime time national TV commercial? There's a reason you haven't seen one.

What, you haven't seen the "come in and get your picture taken on a Vespa-for free!" campaign?

The Cobra Snake Adventure Team?

The Organic Coffee Vespa Tour With Clay Enos?

I hate to say it, but Vespa Oceanside/San Diego spent a boatload on advertising. I'm not trying to be harsh, but I can't say it helped them much.