Modern Vespa

I was totally unaware!
That will definitely slow the sales volume of 50cc's. Vespa and others...

Shame, I know someone who was going to get one. I will tell him about this new law.

Yet another regulation put into effect to harm business while the economy is in recession.
I think all politicians should take a vacation for the next few decades...

Many of them already are...oh, you mean without pay?

I know! I can't tell you how aggravated I am by it. Having already had a 50cc stolen I'm displeased with the prospect of being forced to park my ET2 unsecured on the street.

You friend should be aware than an unnamed Genuine Scooter dealer and an unnamed Piaggio dealer have both persisted in advertising on craigslist that the 50s don't need a license or plates. Dunno what they would tell you in person, but I'm very clear on the new law (It's been thoroughly hashed out on ScootMA) and advertisements like this are blatantly misleading. Kinda negates the point of the 50s, which might be why dealers are loathe to change their sales pitch on them

I would think that my local dealers here are typical even though it is a small sample. They both still have '09 models on the floor and are discounting agressively to sell them. That has to put a damper on sales of '10 and '11 model scooters. One of the local dealers is knocking over $1000 off msrp on '09 LX150s and GTS 250s. Right in the middle of summer that still hasn't cleared them all out. That tells me that the high spring '09 US sales figures and low spring '10 figures are mostly an anomoly of shipments vs. true sales.

This is not just a phenomenon with scooters however. Motorcycle sales have gone through the same kind of bottleneck. Harley-Davidson is talking major reorganization and relocation of production facilities. Little IMZ-Ural USA can count its current year sales in 3 digits. I'm more worried about Ural going away than Piaggio/Vespa when you get right down to it.

It's not a lack of acceptance. It's concern. We're all aware of the situation with the economy.

OUCH!

Who is this from?

"Ouch"
That's what the dealers say since these discounts typically come outta their hides.

PM sent

My first scooter was a Kymco Cobra 50cc. great fun. I had 2 big motorcycles as well at the time. It was my first introduction into scooter-dom and I remember looking at Vespas and being stunned as to how expensive they were. "But it's only a scooter" was my thought.

And that's a huge problem. If I, already a motosport enthusiast, felt that way, then imagine how genuine moto rookies must react.

Now I have Vespas because I've become more educated in the ways of scooters, and quite frankly, because I make more $.

That's the emphasis intended, I hate to see dealers having to do this, but the ad implied it was a Piaggio discount!

"The fantastic Vespa incentives we hoped for have now come thru!"

Vespa is advertising in the US. I am constantly getting emails from Vespa regarding available rebates.

Maybe Piaggio is discounting the returns from some it's failed dealers...but those are likely to be scratch-n-dents as they generally don't get re-crated when returned to the warehouse. In which case that would (should) be disclosed in the ad.

Otherwise, it's a dealer dumping at cost to get out from under the flooring or re-coup his investment. Even the discounts and promos offered directly "from the manufacturer" often impact the dealers as well, including even special financing rates.

Being a dealer is tough....everyone please try to patronize their favorites to ensure they make some profit even if it's on DIY items like oil filters, belts, etc.

The dealer community IS our support mechanism for Scooterholism....it's really not the manufacturers.

I don't think mass generation of emails to a mailing list really counts as advertising. Most of those are dismissed as Spam.

I agree hence the smiley face.

Agreed....SPAM.

Many of those rebates I've seen are on discontinued models...but then again, somewhere...there is a warehouse chock full of un-loved vespas.

Gotcha!

I really expected SDG to chime in here since he is probably one of the top sellers of Vespas. I believe he said that his sales were still pretty strong in 2010.

Yep, I got that one in my in-box, too. It's tempting to think about...until I remember that there are like-new (read: Hiluxxe) GTSes out there on Craigs and such for even less. If I'm going to buy new, I want *new*, meaning not just 12 months of warranty, but perhaps a new color and a 300cc 278cc engine!

I don't know if these discounts are coming (entirely) out of dealers' cut. These seem to be company wide; other dealers are advertising them.

I believe on the $500 discount on the LX and other 150s, half of it comes from dealer and the other half is reimbursed from Piaggio in the form of some kind of credit. +1 I've long believed that the economic and practicality arguments do promote scootering in general but are the wrong message for selling Vespas. (See: Ad Age: Vespa Marketing, Timoni Interview.) The people who this appeals to are also the ones who are going to comparison shop and may ultimately go with a more practical, less-expensive scooter. (One reason, again, that I think Piaggio should do a better job of pushing the less-expensive Aprilia and Piaggio scoots.)

That's not to say that Piaggio shouldn't invest in promoting the scootering lifestyle in the US-that's a large part of what they should be doing. But it should be the more glamorous and emotional aspects than the mundane ones.

Honestly, when I think of most of my non-scooterist friends, there are few I can envision becoming riders. I would actually dissuade some from scootering (only partially because their spouses would blame me when they get injured in a crash).

So SO true... There's a few folks I hang out with that would be awesome to ride with, but in the end, I know it's a pipe dream. Even though I know some of them would get hooked after their first ride, they're too hung up on the whole...ahem...(incorrect assumption that riding a scooter makes you less heterosexual)...appearance thing. Others would be total jackwads on a scooter, and I'd probably not enjoy the ride as much in their proximity.

Eric and Dani,

This is what I meant. A joint effort between the first tier scooter brands. I know some of them will not buy a premiere scooter like a Vespa but they may get into scooting as a whole. If this happens, there are more scoots on the road and more people consider them as transportation and practical (and less of as toys). I would also hope that it changes the preconceived notions and prejudices about riding a scoot as a whole.

I suspect there's a back story here that, perhaps thankfully, won't make it to MV. Then again if not here, where??

Did anyone else notice that the $1200 off of the GTV 250 is actually $1000?



Can someone explain what "all units are subject to prior sale" means? Are these trade-ins?

They are probably new units which are also being advertised elsewhere, or they have already been sold [or never existed] and are just being used as bait. That's a common game with auto dealers who advertise a loss leader in a weekend paper, but when you show up to look it over it has been sold. They then push the MSRP machinery at you.

Yup..
"Oh we sold that one just prior to you showing up... all we have left are full MSRP bikes"..

Vespa's marketing in Australia seems equally non-existent - unless you're looking for, or own, a scooter or bike already. Here's my take as a long-time observer, recent convert. I'll happily admit a preference for premium products - my road bikes have all been BMWs (since 1985).

Australia seemed to go through a 'rush' in scooter visibility / growth in 2000-2005. Two (QLD and WA - or was it three?) states allowed 50cc machines on car licence, and this seemed to provide a huge push - but numbers and visibility seemed to blossom in NSW where you still need a motorcycle licence for any scoot.

The ET4 and the GT200 arrived in this phase and seemed to be everywhere (even allowing for confirmation bias, since I thought they looked great .. I only had BMW road bikes then). I had the impression that plenty of cashed-up first-time scooter riders bought Vespas - but bear in mind I lived in inner city Sydney (a very high income area). I test-rode the ET4 and the GT in 2003 - and I recall having about 4 dealers to choose from within 5-7km of me.

The scooter profile around Sydney kept rising, albeit not as fast, after 2005 or so - and the higher-profile dealerships seemed to need the Vespa brand to be "serious". I wasn't a scooter rider then, but I noticed the Piaggio branded scooters start to appear as well, and you couldn't ride a major road near the city without seeing a Vespa-Piaggio dealer. There were quite a few cheaper scooters dealesr opening, too - and Honda / Yamaha scooters were for sale at those bike dealers. Vespa seemed to be a 'first scoot' btrand as well as a premium scoot brand

Now, it seems Vespas sell LX etc as a premium first scoot, but I get the distinct impression that the 250 & 300 are second scooter offerings - i.e. a premium offering to people who are already in the scooter or bike world. I don't see the two-wheel press all that often (tend to get all my info via the web) but I think Vespa here sell on image and brand strength, principally to people already looking. So no "cold" advertising.

BMW bikes have long sold as word of mouth - and BMW advertising was for years primarily directed at making existing owners feel good about their purchase - their pride of ownership sold the brand to new owners. The ads also reinforced a "premium" brand positioning. A BMW exec told me some ads were designed to spark conversation between non-BMW and BMW owners (dunno if it worked).

Piaggio Australia don't seem to have grasped this in their Vespa positioning. I can't discern a pattern or target in their marketing ... it seems to be largely invisble until you're in a dealership or otherwise looking for Vespa. Piaggio also don't seem to "get" that if Vespa is a premium buy, the buyer experience has to refect this. The two shops nearest me are cramped, dirty, customer service is non-existent (so bad they juts ignore walk-ins) - I went 25km away to buy my GTS250 from Scooter Central. If I wasn't committed to a Vespa purchase I'd have given up altogether.

We're losing scooter dealerships here, but this seems to be as much a result of predatory pricing - the local guy I bought my Piaggio Fly from (as my "entry" scoot) was out of business before I could buy my GTS250. That was a great place - but it had real main road exposure with $$$ in rent yet had to sell its scoots (mainly Piaggio / Vespa / Aprilia) at rock-bottom prices to compete with the cut-price guy nearest (one of the tiny, cramped, shops- as is the "city" dealership).

My 2 cenets is Vespa needs a better brand strategy and needs to reinforce its brand value to existing owners ... as you've all noted, we sell the brand!!

Note - we did not have a recession in Australia. While there was a lot of Aussie $$ in junk US investments (the junk CDOs marketed as investment grade), thanks to or better regulation our financial institutions survived .. though credit did get very tight, as everywhere.

What you are describing in the years 2000 to date relflects the market world wide.

United States:



Japan:


Europe:



Yahama sales performance: The company last year (2009) posted its first loss since the year ended April 1984 as sales tumbled 45 percent in North America and 25 percent in Europe.

It's a bit presumptuous to lay blame on a singe manufacturer when the entire market is down.

And, on Nov 2007, the Fredonia Group, a fairly well respected market analysis organization, made this prediction that was overturned by the recession:

Global motorcycle demand will grow six percent annually through 2011. Gains will be led by developing markets based on rising incomes and the introduction of higher quality machines with newer technologies. In developed markets, fuel prices and car restrictions will make motorcycles more attractive as transportation.

This study analyzes the 44.3 million unit world motorcycle industry. It presents historical demand data for 1996, 2001 and 2006 and forecasts for 2011 and 2016 by type (e.g., scooters and mopeds, light motorcycles, medium/heavy motorcycles); world region (e.g., Asia/Pacific, Western Europe, North America); and for 18 countries.

The study also considers market environment factors, details industry structure, evaluates company market share and profiles 18 major players including Honda, Yamaha, Harley-Davidson, Suzuki, and Kawasaki.

So, is it any surprise manufacturers overproduced for 2008 and 2009?

Sorry Ive never owned anything but Vespas.

Looks almost like the ad from Motoretta last year.

Ha. I owned a Vespa and then bought two Japanese scooters and a Japanese motorcycle.

the whole World is in a down cycle whats so hard to undersatnd about it? plan B is drop the price and I see it coming 1200 off a scooter is a huge incentive for anyone on the fence.

That is what happen in the 80's

Because your cool like that OZ 8)

Regarding the Japanese scooter question. I had Piaggios (still have the bv) THEN bought a Honda. The only reason is because I don't have a local Piaggio dealer. I'd buy another Piaggio in a heartbeat if I had a dealer. Maybe in time- if and when the economy turns around- a Piaggio franchise will come to my area. Even our very large multi manufacturer dealer is rumored to be in trouble. The economy is really taking its toll on our hobby/sport.

Bob

Here's some info about a local dealer that might shed a little light. Today's LA Times Image section had a nice little puff piece on Vespa of Los Angeles, which opened last November in Little Tokyo in downtown LA. It's a nice-looking but small shop (though it's unusual, they carry only Vespa and a couple Piaggio models) in an up-and-coming part of downtown, though some of the development and gentrification has been slowed by the recession. So VLA is the #11 dealer in the country, #2 in the region, and they're selling an average of approx. 12 scooters/month. I'm glad the shop is doing well; in a couple years that location could be really hot.

Still, less than 12 scoots/mo. doesn't seem like a lot for every dealer in the US lower than #11.

I'm not sure that's a sustainable sales volume for even a small shop. VLA (and many others) have been discounting scooters and offering big incentives since the spring, so that 12/mo. may not be at full price.

I've also heard VLA has started carrying Lance. What does it mean when the #11 dealer in the country adds a line of Chinese scoots to pump sales? I suppose you could look at it that way, but when compared to how many shops there were a year ago "burgeoning" probably isn't the right word.

The $2000 dollar scooters the article refers to must be the Lance scooters, which clearly did not get distinguished from a Vespa in the write-up.

Nonetheless, that alone will likely drive people into the store looking for a "$2000 dollar Vespa"!

So lets see the rank of sales list

It's a pretty sobering thought. Our Piaggio dealer friend on Naxos sells 300-350 Piaggio Group scooters/year on an island with a working class population of maybe 10,000 permanent residents. Now, he does sell about 50 Liberties and Typhoons/year to rental shops, so his straight retail sales are about 250-300. And, he also runs a car/scooter rental business as well to help pay the bills. I'm sure his cost of doing business is significantly lower than LA.

Well, the $1000 off MSRP on '09 LX150s and GTS250s at one of my local dealers is real enough. I have seen the machines on their floor. They have sold several. Several more just waiting for someone to come in and write a check. No bait and switch as far as I can see. In fact, my impression is that they would far rather sell the rest of their '09s than take an order for a '11 that they don't have and are hesitant to stock.