Modern Vespa

The latest 2010 GTS at my local dealer.

They have the 300s in Gold & Blue, the 300 Super in flat Silver, white & black.

He told me that they rebadged the 250s to 300s but Im sure he mistaken.

Great deals in the Seattle area, too:
http://tinyurl.com/24nvx9y

Probably, but it's not like it hasn't happened before!

I guess we can take some small comfort in knowing that as bad as things may or may not be, they're still better off at the moment than SYM-USA is.

Isn't the model designation identified in the VIN? So are you saying that the 300 is just a 250 with a new model designation for the new model year? Would be a bit difficult to take what was produced and VINed in a previous model year as a 250 and just change the badges, wouldn't it? The model year (US) is tied irrevocably to the production date.

Or am I missing something?

Al

I think that depends on who gets blamed for the arson. If they can avoid getting pinned for that, they might be in a pretty good place for themselves. I wish I could say as much for the dealers and bike owners.

True. I'm not going to wade into the dangerous waters of even suggesting who may have been behind the arson. Regardless, it puts their US operations in limbo until this is resolved or some other change is made, leaving owners and dealers standing around with the SYMbas in their hands (so to speak). At the very least,we know Piaggio Americas is trudging forward and that we'll still be able to buy new models, parts and get warranty service for the foreseeable future. (Unless you're one of those "Piaggio is going to pull out again!" doom and gloomers but I don't subscribe to that.)

What's a Symba?! We've been waiting years for those.

The vin number is mounted to the glove box isnt it. I thought it was odd that the 2010s didnt have the vents like the S, I honestly dont think he ment they rebadged the 250 to the 300. They did have the 300 in blue which is a GT color, doubt they rebadged a GT. The tags on the on the Glove box had a
5-2010 date on it.

Plus the exhaust tips were newer chrome tips not the earlier ones like mine, plus they all had the newer speedos, so imo I think he was incorrect.

Add, the engine case color is not the flat gray like mine.

That gold GTS 300 is beautiful. I've never seen one that color.

Good grief those scoots look great in matte grey and the gold!
No wonder we're suckers for these bikes. Just look at them!

And this is why, no matter how good other brands may be, I will always want to ride Vespa.

p.s. that grey one needs the seat piping to be red not white to complete the look.

Carter Bros just got the signoff from CARB for the Symba today. Bad timing.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/hmc/2010/carterbrothers_m1140008_101_1d0_h.pdf

Irony so sharp you can cut yourself with it. Hope there's some way of getting these to NoHo and other dealers.

Maybe, just maybe, if Piaggio U.S.A acted as if they gave a damn about their customers they wouldn't be in the sales slide they are in. After writing a courteous letter about a definite manufacturing defect, including a picture, and not getting a reply for going on 2 months, then writing an e-mail follow up with a copy of the letter over 2 weeks ago, I still have not had the courtesy of a reply. Any business that thinks it is a wise course to ignore their customers isn't going to be around long

I don't know the specifics of your situation, but if there's a defect and your scooter's under warranty, you need to address this via your local dealer. even if it's not under warranty, the dealers are the primary go-betweens with customers and Piaggio.

Customer service has little to do with the current slump. They haven't changed their service policies at all. It's not as if you'd have received a response from them in '08 when scoots were selling like hotcakes.

As has been said, the entire industry is in a slump but for many reasons the numbers show that it's hitting Piaggio especially hard. One reason is the way they report sales. Others may be as simple as having the most expensive product offerings during tough times. Their strategy recently has been discounting scoots (as most manufacturers are doing). Piaggio may also be feeling the sting more than others as dealers due to dealer closures and repos. This is a lot of stock that winds up back in their hands that was reported "sold" last year or the year before.

I don't think Piaggio USA will pull out. I however do think the market is ridding itself of defunct dealers who can't sell or turn a profit and ones that are geographically located in areas that can't support a Vespa shop. I also think the stand alone, Vespa/Piaggio only dealer or boutique store is a thing of the past. In order to survive I think 2 or more product lines will be completely necessary.

I talked to a large Motorcycle dealer in Ohio this past weekend who sells Vespa along with 5 other brands of motorcycles. He said he only sells 50-60 Vespas a year but the other bike sales keep his dealership rolling along (bread and butter)and because of this he is able to keep Vespa at his dealer and servicing those in his city without worry about closing.

Certain markets can certainly still support Vespa "boutiques." They just may not be able to support several. Outside of LA, SF, NYC, Seattle and maybe a few other cities, though, it's proven very hard to survive selling only Piaggio product.

Many Piaggio/Vespa dealers have either taken on other lines or are looking to do so. At the same time, some dealers such as Motorsports and Scoot Richmond have added Vespa.

Unfortunately for Piaggio having Vespa franchises recently added to a few multi-line dealerships (keeping their doors open doing their core business with other makes and services), won't make up for what they've lost in 2010.
Not a compelling business scenario for them here.

Their future here depends on how much cash the mother ship is willing to bleed and for how long in this market....

My belief is that Piaggio, as well as other scooter brands, are going to be just fine. All they need is the return of $5 per gallon petrol. The best I can tell from reading and watching different markets is that we are 12-18 months away from that. (you heard it here first ) That is what is going to sell scooters in the U.S., it's already been proven.

But this time it'll be $5 gas within a recessionary economy. I don't think people who are worried about putting food on the table will splurge on a Vespa to save gas.

We won't see $5 a gallon while in recovery mode. 12 -18 months out we'll be back on track. Not back to the way things were, but definitely better. And you can count on oil skyrocketing as soon as everyone goes back to work.

I did read an article today that says the recession is over....missed that one!

This is assuming Piaggio USA is bleeding at all. They have a pretty small staff considering the magnitude of what they do. With sales in the tank they still sell 1000's of scooters every year and the parts / accessories are a huge piece of their business model. They have made every correct move so far to stay in it for the long run so far. I hope I haven't missed something.

Best,
SDG

By the strict definition the recession has been over for about a year. The problem is that it's been a jobless recovery, and a lot of the structural issues in the economy(housing prices) haven't resolved themselves.

I'm sure sales are down for all of the reasons folks have discussed, but I've experienced something no one else has mentioned yet. I've literally tried to buy a BV 250 or 500 but cannot get anyone to call me back. I've emailed a dealer out of town about available inventory and never heard anything. I was to test drive a 250 at another dealer but the shop at first lost my phone number , then said that Piaggio sent them the 'wrong key' and they couldn't start the scooter . They said they'd call me when they corrected the problem but never did. This past weekend I drove over 70 miles one way to test drive a BV 500 and asked for one in a different color (black) than the one on the floor (white). Been three days and still haven't heard back.

Yes, the economy is down and yes, Piaggio may not treat it's dealers well by pushing stock, and yes Piaggio may not be attentive to its customers. But when someone wants to buy a bike despite all of this and can't even get three different dealers to seem interested in making a sale, then there is another ingredient in the cake. It almost seems as though they don't want to sell bikes -- like it's too much of a hassle or something.

All their inventory must be paid for free and clear....?

Objectively, you do provide an insider's view out, but you're neither a part of Piaggio Corporate, nor disinterested in their public persona as your living is derived from their products. So you have to look at it through rose colored glasses.

You are a "company man" David, and I applaud you for that, but thats not to say that their "correct moves" (downsizing you mean) can replace revenue, or pay letters of credit for warehouses full of parts and product.

Again, I'd be very surprised if PUSA is lately profitable, and with that I still wonder if the mother ship will want to support it until provides a return on investment. I'm not in "the business", but I've been "in business" long enough to see the plug pulled on un-profitable divisions.

And frankly, the magnitude of what they do in terms of revenue in the US is a matter perspective.

I don't think Piaggio USA will pull out of the market. Things are different this time around. First of all none of the previous Vespa importers were owned by Piaggio in Italy. This is a huge difference since PUSA can take a loss for awhile, and Piaggio can keep them going until scooter sales return. Piaggio also has more brands this time. Its not just Vespa, but they now import Piaggio, Aprilia, and Moto Guzzi. It's important to these brands to have a presence in North America.

Vespa sales slowed to a trickle in the late sixties and early seventies. This was due to the Japanese taking over the small bike/scooter market. It was not until the oil crisis of 1973 that Vespa sales took off again. The second oil crisis in 1979 made sales take off again. I think something similar to what happened in 2009 happened in 1980/1981, since I used to find alot of P series Vespas from those years that were not sold until 1983/1984. Im sure just about every distributor will have 2009 models into 2011. Vespa was forced out of the market after 1985 due to emissions regulations. There were not many Vespas imported between 1981 and 1985.

Piaggio pulling out would be bad for the scooter industry here. We need all their brands and other quality scooter brands (Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Genuine, Kymco, and SYM), which complement each other in the market. Right now the scooter consumer in the USA has an awesome selection of scooters to chose from. In the nineties if you wanted a new scooter here you had to buy a dated eighties design from Honda or Yamaha. No wonder scooter sales were dead.

Good post, Mike. Thanks for the perspective, esp the all-important distinction that the import biz is owned by Piaggio this time, which makes it less vulnerable to market swings. I still have to wonder wonder when sales are going to return. A friend who works in a not-entirely-unrelated market, real estate, tells me that their industry experts are beginning to quietly say that 2017 is when they expect that market to come back. You have to hope that's a pessimistic prognostication!

Im new around here so as a scooter-less driver I can say after going to an actual Vespa dealer (Long Beach plug!) ... i think part of the problem is, is that there's a stigma with the term scooter. its like people have the mindset that a scooter is associated with toy and is associated with something that isnt actually safe or durable..

after going to a dealer and sitting on the various models i can say that those vespas are anything from some dinky scooter... they're like rock hard! hahah idk how else to describe them... but the thing is like a tank i would go as far to say its borderline as close to a car in the sense that the structure of the scooter itself is pretty strong (at least thats the impression i got)

unfortunately it is looked at as a recreational and third or fourth option to transport people in most minds... maybe they just need more viewpoints from actual riders who use them to commute daily... i mean if anything i have heard more about riders here who seldom ride in their cars unless they truly need to, i guess you guys find any excuse just to get on the scoot and ride because it TRULY is really fun and enjoyable yet economical

idk thats just me but yeah haha

+1... Exactly, and I'm 58.

You're not wrong, but again that's always been true so it doesn't explain a sudden dramatic drop in sales. Historically, scooter sales in the US have been subject to these kinds of boom/bust cycles. It's not because people's attitudes about scooters change radically.

At best, changing general perceptions about scootering might help stabilize things and lessen the effects of the busts.

Even those who were anticipating a drop in sales after 2008 were caught off guard by the severity and duration of this downturn.

I use my scooter on weekends- My commute is 34 miles each way. Since I live by the beach and commute to Silicon Valley, it's not real practical to ride my scoot to work, but on the weekends it's all I use.

I think two things determine use for daily transportation:

The cost of the scooter- Vespas are not cheap to buy or maintain

Reliability- bad fuel pumps and other issues that can leave you stranded
will not make people use Vespas as a commute vehicle.

Piaggio has created a high end product that makes selling in numbers very hard to do. Unless someone like Lady Ga GA or some reality "star" starts riding a Vespa I think Piaggio is not going to increase volume enough to support wide distribution or service beyond major cities.

Lady Ga Ga and use by reality stars have proven to be poor ways of selling just about anything. Case in point: Designers were apparently sending mysteriously popular Jersey Shore start Snooki their competitors purses in hopes she would be photographed with them and drag the brands down. Ha.

Lots of celebrities ride Vespas. The only people who seem to care are scooterists.

I think you may be selling your Vespa short.
I've commuted on my Vespa since new, and taken it on two hundred mile plus round trips without a second thought. While the Vespa isn't cheap, it's cheaper than most cars. Just look to the UK posters to see examples of scooters (many second or third hand) being bought exclusively for commuting.

Fuel pumps-Here's a Google search of the NHTSA site for defective fuel pumps: And that's just the first page!
Anybody given up commuting in their Volvo, Jag or Lambo?
I agree that the fuel pumps are failing, and that's unacceptable, but let's not lose perspective here!

Well for the fear of getting another thumbs down response (huh?) let me reiterate I was just throwing it out there. My point is I don't actually know if they are making money or not so there is no way anyone else around here could. I certainly hope it isn't as awful as some project as I do want to remain a Vespa dealer for the rest of my career.

I am unsure how the letters of credit and such work, we get some free interest on scooters and such from PUSA, maybe they get the same or more from Italy, I just don't know.

They have downsized their staff, moved inside of NYC to cheaper real estate and such. My glasses aren't that rose colored, we are all concerned on a daily basis of the fragility of these smaller companies, but then again we just don't get enough information to know if that concern is justified.

Hey, they pull out and I'm looking for a new gig so obviously I wouldn't want that to happen to me or the many Vespa owners out there.

I think we are good but only time will tell. Mike from Noho puts out a good historical timeline of the scooter scene, we are in another historical moment right now.

Best,
SDG

Can someone please explain why SDG is getting flagged Negative on this post when he is one of Piaggio USAs biggest dealers who is simply commenting from a In-the-know position about a topic he is very qualified to answer? I'm getting sick of people flagging stuff like this negative. There is nothing whatsoever negative in this post whatsoever. We got a simple follow-up comment to the post from a respected dealer and MV sponsor.

Thanks bud, I was thinking the same thing. I did put at the end "I hope I haven't missed something", I mean of course I want Piaggio USA to make it but I didn't bring in some b.s. report of flying kitties or anything.

We are concerned, but remain positive about this nasty economy. Honestly for us after a barn burner August, this month is very slow again so you just don't know.

Best,
SDG

For the record, I didn't tag SDG for his commentary...he's a great jouster here, I enjoy agreeing to disagree with him.

But simply put, your discussing other people's decisions to use the KARMA system as it were, offends me. It's like criticizing others people's right to vote.

The fact that you think there is nothing negative about his post is your right, but the fact that someone else took exception with is their's.

Kvetching about someone's karma use won't accomplish a thing...let's talk about scooters!

I just like to understand the way people think. I simply asked a question. I never infringed on anyone's right to say anything or vote etc...... I just wanted to know if I was missing something I didn't see, especially when everything seemed so black and white.

It's OK, I got flagged Negative for it.

Have they passed CARB? Made it through customs? Can I put down a deposit?

Seriously - thanks for the info & perspective. Thumbs up for you (and Vezpa).

Inevitable