Modern Vespa

My friends and I are getting very excited about our upcoming trip to Italy. I will be riding and they will be driving.

Anyone who has been to northern Italy, I'd love to hear about those places (and things to do) that you personally thought were the best part of your trip.

We will be leaving Toronto on September 7th, arriving in Rome on September 8th. We come back (again from Rome) on October 1st or 2nd. Once we have seen Rome, we will head up to Pisa, pick up the scooter and then head out on our journey to see Tuscany and the Dolomites.

Any suggestions and photos you may have are most welcome. We all like "off the beaten path" type of places, small towns, fishing villages, anywhere with lakes or rivers and beaches ... small, intimate restaurants, affordable places to stay, gardens, castles, churches, museums, wineries, good picnic areas, etc.

We are all pretty quiet types who love peace and quiet. Not really into the "fast pace" of big cities ... as we have all chosen to live in the Caribbean. We like to take our time to roam about, explore and find cool little places. I love photography but will not be taking my big Nikon. It's just too heavy to lug around. I'll probably end up buying a small pocket camera with a 10X zoom lens. So good photo ops are appreciated as well.

If there was somewhere (between Rome and the Dolomites) that you just loved and would highly recommend, please tell me a little about it. I'll be sure to add it to our list! We are trying to map out some sort of route ... so any and all help is appreciated!

My wife and I have been to Italy several times in the last few years, and we love it. I thought Bologna was a great place for a few days, with a side trip to Ravenna. We camped on Elba and in Siena in October of 2008. The ferries don't run as often in the fall, but the service is good on the ones in operation. As far as finding places, we always asked the folks at the b and b or hotel for recommendations, and were never disappointed. Lago Maggiore and Como are relaxing and interesting, we were in Stresa in the middle of speed boat races last October, but there was plenty to do and the crowds were relatively benign. The islands are fascinating, and the boat ride between them is reasonable. We ate at a great restaurant right by the boat dock at Baveno, the owner was an ex-pat Brit with an Italian wife, they had Fuller's London Pride on tap, as well as a wonderful menu. Since my first time in Milan in 1973, I have never had a bad meal in Italy. Except for some gnocchi in a self-serve at Pompeii, but that was on a student tour, and I knew better. Have a great time, and post pix upon your return.

The Cinque Terre is just north of Pisa. I also really like Assisi; it's very peaceful. Lucca was nice too; the best pastries that I had in Italy. The church in Orvieto is very beautiful. I had some of the best ragu that I have ever had there (no not the canned spaghetti sauce ). I don't really consider any of these off the beaten path. I really wonder if you can get off the beaten path in Italy anymore. Have fun.

The time period you have chosen is good, because you do not need to worry about hotel reservations once you leave Rome. Pick a general route of travel and take it one day at a time. If you set a timetable or too exhaustive a list of things to see, you could end up short changing yourselves.

Believe me, you will discover wonderful things on your own. The Dolomite region is magnificent. Cinque Terre, Lucca, Pisa, Firenze, Lago de Como, Milano, Bologna, Venice, Siena are all worth seeing. The secondary roads are great to drive/ride on.

Kalo Taxidi!

Make sure you ride from Lucca via Borgo, Barga and Aulla to La Spezzia. Stunning mountain roads. Likewise Cortona to Poppi then Fiesole. Or in reverse. The roads between Volterra and San Gimignano are also stunning.

Places to avoid. Avoid the coastal roads. La Spezzia (Liguria) to Viareggio is boring. Anywhere in the Arno valley. Pisa is worth half a day. Florence for the museums - one day or so. Traffic is mad.

Cortona is also worth a visit. Ignore what Peter Moore says. Regardless of the praise heaped on him by some on MV he is a whinging Aussie FW who sometimes doesn't get it. Enjoy and just lap up the atmosphere.

I suggest you read and digest these, if you haven't already:

Bella Italia - The Hornet (GT200) goes to Italy and back

http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/bisr/report.htm

As always, it depend upon what you're into. If you're a history or art buff the answer is completely different than if you're a nature and water fan.

I scooted in the Cinque Terre and it's an amazing place to ride. There are, as in all of Italy, many small towns along the winding sea side roads so there's no lack of hang out places between rides.

You really can't go too wrong. The worst case would be going through some of the flat, grain areas of Lombardi on your way, but even then, improvise, and it could still be exciting.

I'm going to Cinque Terre with my boyfriend in 2 weeks' time, and neither of us have an international driving licence (he has an expired US motorcycle/car driving licence, I have a Malaysian driving licence, and a Swiss motorcycle learner's licence), but I'm dying to rent a scooter there! It looks like an awesome place to scoot around (albeit a bit hilly??) I won't be staying in the Cinque Terre itself because hotels there are SO expensive (high season this month) so I will actually be in Levanto, and the hotel is 6km from the Levanto train station.... a scooter would be really really useful. Wondering if they will accept my Malaysian car licence, and I can attempt to scoot with my bf riding pillion (he called my Vespa a moped today and doesn't believe it goes 60mph! He had Harleys, BMWs and Yamahas). He hasn't ridden with me on my new Vespa yet since my learner's licence doesn't allow me to ride with a passenger without a licence himself.

I'm sure Tuscany has some awesome rides to be had, but I've only been to Florence and Pisa by train. It's my dream to one day drive around Italy with my Vespa and see all the countryside. Bergamo and Verona near Milan are really sweet towns, but not sure if you're going to head that far up north. Rome is just absolutely awesome, but probably crazy for driving. Sorry I can't be of any better help right now but hopefully after coming back from Cinque Terre I might know more!!!

Ahhh-I'm so jealous. Check out Rick Steves and his guidebooks for Italy http://travelstore.ricksteves.com/catalog/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog&parent_id=155

I think you'll find his guidebooks easy to understand and I can vouch for all his suggestions through Rome, Tuscany and Venice. if you like it quiet, we stayed at a convent he recommended in Siena, bed and breakfast spots all over and have never been disappointed with any restaurants he has endorsed.

Siena is amazing. Cinque Terra is an adventure. We loved Santa Margarieta as well as Camogli and any of the small towns along the Mediterranean.You sort of have to experience Rome, but don't take on driving there. Florence is great for art and museums, but if that doesn't interest you, stay away-crazy city to get around and a little expensive.

We didn't reallly like Pisa-too touristy, but Venice is amazing and Milan is okay for a day or two.

You really can't go wrong. Find small, family owned places to eat and order what's fresh, locally. The food is amazing and the people warm and friendly.

Good luck and check out Rick Steves. We use his books a lot when traveling and have never been disappointed. Have an amazing time and enjoy all the tastes. Ciao

chia. Someone will need a valid m/c licence to hire a Vespa in Italy. You also need an IDP unless you have an EU m/c licence.

Yeah I guess they might ask for an international licence.... but I won't be able to sort one out by 2 weeks! But... sometimes in certain countries they might be a bit relaxed with their rules? I'm hoping!!!!! Wouldn't mind just a 50cc scooter even thought that might be a struggle with the hills and passenger!

DON'T miss Siena. It is sublime. My favorite city in Italy, I think. I also recommend Volterra, while you're in the area. The views from the hilltops are phenomenal, and the little shops and restaurants are great.

Florence is big and busy but worth going, as someone said above, for the museums alone. Lots to see there.

I don't have any advice for areas north of Tuscany since I haven't been there in at least 20 years. Wish I was going, too!

Have fun!

Once you get out of Rome make sure you go visit Siena. I've been all over Italy and in my opinion it is the most beautiful city I've ever been to. Lucca is really cool as well, you can rent bikes and ride the walls of the city, very relaxing. I don't know how far North you're planning on going, but avoid Milan (nothing to see, rude people, super crowded, etc). Bologna is nice and has great food but there isn't much to see as a tourist. I would recommend trying to chat up some Italians (especially if you speak Italian) and see if they can recommend any places off the beaten path. There are some really nice places even just outside of Rome (tivoli, villa Adriana, frascati, etc).

I agree with the poster about Pisa -- exit quickly. From Pisa you are very close to Pontedera and the Piaggio museum -- well worth the trip. We stayed in Montespertoli, a small hill town about 30-40 miles from Florence and about 25 mins from Empoli -- a rail junction.

While touristy, San Gimignano is worth the trip, its one of the UNESCO World Heritage sites.

The secondary roads throughout Tuscany are great for scooters and other 2 wheeled vehicles.

You don't need an international drivers license but you do need a motorcycle endorsement. There's a good rental place in Levanto, about a block from the beach. Phone Number 0187-802005

There are two faces to Italy ... the daytime and the night-time. My most memorable adventures were after dark when the tourists returned to their hotels and the locals came out. Italians are proud of their history. They don't tear old stuff down like we do ... they put floodlight on them and show them off. You can get some wonderful photographs (without people in the foreground) at night-time. Bring extra memory cards for your camera.

On my list of things to do when I return ... take in an opera at La Scala in Milan and a play at the Arena in Verona. If time, and opportunity allow, a trip to the Trebbia River and Lake Trasimene. Probably nothing to see today, but maybe I can get a sense of what happened between Hannibal and the Legions from the topography and historical accounts of the battles.

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edited to correct a misspelled word

Last time in Italy, we did all the tourist spots. Had a great time in Rome and loved Florence, Tuscany and Venice. The big surprise, however, was Vicenza, a place tourists don't often visit.

It was great to be in a beautiful, walkable, historic city full of interesting things to see, shopping, good food, etc., and not feel like just another sheep being led to the shearing.



Lovely Vicenza!

Several motorcycle touring magazines have had articles recently about the NEED for non-EU licensed riders to have a proper IDP (International Driving Permit) when renting/riding in Italy. Enforcement has been stepped up.

The IDP arises from an international treaty, to which Italy is a signator. It's not a "local law", and the requirement and the legal ramifications of non-compliance remain in place.

Some shops will rent without an IDP. However, insurance companies and the police do expect them. No problem if you experience no incidents. However, if you do have a mishap and do not possess an IDP, the police can, for example, detain you until your consulate can provide, translated into Italian, a proper certification of your Malaysian driver license.

Shops will rent 50 through 125 cc scooters to someone holding a "normal" driver license, without motorcycle endorsement.

Be advised that scooter rental shops in Italy tend to place high damage and theft liability on the renter. Typically 1,000 euro or more - even with "optional" insurance coverage. Without an IDP, expect the liability to be 100%, as the insurer can legally refuse to recognize your Malaysian license. Your damage/theft liability is typically paid in advance by either a full cash deposit or credit card imprint.

Al

Excuse my being...ehm...a bit partial...
(I swear I get no royalties from our Tourist Board)

http://travel.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/travel/22tuscany.html

I respectfully step aside to your deeper and more recent knowledge. The lady just asked to see my MC endorsement and rented me a Honda 125.

Pictures from Italy

Lots of good information has been posted so far, but there has been little discussion of the "Northern" portion of your trip. Other than Venice there is a lot of "off the beaten path" stuff up there. I lived in Milan/Monza for a year, and go back at least annually for work. Central and Southern Italy is stunning and everyone's suggestions are spot on (especially Ellebubi's about Le Marche).

Up North (above Bologna) is a whole different world - both good and bad (traffic and pollution). You mentioned that your going to the Dolomites - that is one of my favorite places in the world. It is just stunning! Check out the Kastelruth/Casterotto area - it would be a great base of operation for a few days. You could do the "4 passi" on your scoot, hang out in the Val di Suisi (largest alpine meadow in Europe). The entire Alto Adige area is really very interesting - it is Italy in name only, culturally it is Austria and was only ceded to Italy after WWI. If you've read "A Farewell to Arms", seeing all of the old fortifications on the mountain tops will give you the chills.

Think about Lago di Como, Lago Maggiore (both very close to Milan). Lago Iseo is interesting too (also close to Milan) - the western shore has one of the most harrowing roads I have ever driven...if you are a thrill seeker - it might be fun on a scoot!

Since you are going to be seeing some amazing hill towns in Tuscany, I suggest going to Bergamo (45 min NE of Milan)... it is on of the few "hill towns" in the north. From there you could take one of the mountain passes into Trentino and Alto Adige instead of the somewhat boring autostrada route to Verona and then north into the Dolomites.

Lots of cool stuff in the North, stay flexible and follow the good weather (the mountains and lakes are pointless if it raining). Drop me a PM if you want specific info on the Milan area. Heck, there is even a good chance that I am going to be over there quite a bit this fall (keeping my fingers crossed).

Thanks Al for the info about licence requirements! I guess the scooter will have to wait then... shame!! Especially since my hotel is 6km from the nearest train station, it would be nice not to have to rely on their shuttle and get around by scooter :p

Thanks all! I have printed this thread out and have collated a lot of other info from various past posts and a few messages sent to my inbox as well. Now all I have to do is try to put it all into some semblance of order regarding our routes.

I can't wait! I hope the weather holds up for us!

Well, since I am actually Italian I try to make a little resumè of all the good advice collected until now and add a little bit of my own:

- Wherever you go (north or centre) avoid motorways and main roads and be sure to stick to secondary roads (strade statali, provinciali e comunali), unless you are in a real hurry (but it is no good to be in a hurry while in holiday).
- Do not take directions from GPS devices; the slowest and complicated road is often the more interesting; get a good map, ask people and get lost, sometimes, to enjoy some little surprise and adventure. Worth trying some hidden Italy.
- Avoid city centres while on 2 wheels. Better go for a walk, taxi or public transportation.
- As to the food, it is always good advice to eat where locals eat. Food culture is an important part of the Italian life. My favourite guide is 'Osterie d'Italia' edited by Slow Food Italy - Never had less than good experiences.
http://www.slowfood.com/
http://www.bol.it/libri/Osterie-d-Italia-2010./na/ea978888499183/

What else...enjoy yourselves!

Pietra Santa is a nice little semi walled town that you might want to see,
It's just north of Pisa, I went to school there for a year in 1979 to 1980 with the Ontario College of Art.

There is an artist community there of sculptors working in marble and bronze,
From there you can head to the hills of Carrara

You "guys" gotta stop this! You've got me checking real estate listings in Italy in anticipation of my retirement in a few years. Small flats in the hinterlands appear to be quite affordable, (by U.S. standards). Am really going to have to downsize however. Most residential apartments/condos/houses are about half the size of what you can find around here.

(Even saw one listing for under $10,000 ... but it was described as "ruins" and the pictures showed it to be in pretty bad shape.)

Thanks - I'm visiting northern Italy in late September (revisiting, in fact) and this was very helpful, especially the stuff about the passes.

Italy on a scooter is on my "todo" list. Last time I was there was when I was still at university and transport was public or on foot. Next time it will be different!!!

I should insert a disclaimer here - I'm not sure I'd do either of those on a scooter. The two routes over the passes into Trentino are the Passo Tonale and The (in)famous Passo Stelvio. The Passo Tonale via Ponte di Legno is really not bad - but the Stelvio is another story. I'd love to do it someday on a moto - or maybe a 500cc Scarabeo at least. In a car it is was still a drive to remember (Top Gear agrees - give me Hammond's lime green GT2 and I'll drive it again and again).

I have to warn you, Italy is notorious for strikes,
They get Banks, Transit buses, Garbage collection and Railway strikes in an endless cycle.

Also getting a telephone installed can mean being on a waiting list for quite some time.

We lived in a house that was only recently restored, It had been bombed
out during WWII and previously to our renting it it had no floors,
Concrete floors were installed just months before we arrived.

Even then we had no stairs, We used a ladder to get to the second floor,
Although the rent was cheap, Just $100. for the five of us a month.

After the first two months, We finally got electricity installed,
It was a relief to put the candles away and finally plug in an electric stove,
Having to cook my dinner on a butane camp stove was no fun every night.

Never mind the fact we didn't have indoor plumbing,
We had to use an outhouse in the backyard that emptied into the river.
(It was an old Roman system that was still in use)

Also, Water condensation would flow down my bedroom wall on a daily
basis and the dampness was almost unbearable until I got a gas heater.

Almost forgot, Don't buy a bicycle,
I made that mistake when I arrived, Later I bought a more practical scooter.

Are you sure you still want to buy a "Ruin"

I highly suggest you don't watch the TV show "House Hunters International" on HGTV (I think). They have done many shows in Italy, as well as other places in Europe. Spain and Portugal are probably the most affordable now. You might look there too

Passo Tonale is a piece of cake, and a beautiful ride. We did it on my PX and the wife's Yesterday. Which reminds us, if you have time, swing up to Chiavenna.





Al

I remember you posting about that last year now that you mention it... I have to admit - I've only seen that pass from a car, in winter, on the way to a ski resort. No two wheelers on that road at that time of the year...

Thanks for all this! I should mention that I'll be on my GP800, which has a bit more whack than the GT. (Now you've said that, though...I smell a challenge )

So many great suggestions. In Rome do not miss:

http://www.giolitti.it/english/home.html

The best Gelatto in the world! I know - big statement. Really the best!

Have a great time!

G

Ooooh a GP800!... you just might have to take the Stelvio instead

Two years ago, my boyfriend's bike broke down RIGHT BEFORE the start of the Stelvio...we're gonna have to go back and do it!

(And both our bikes broke down in Germany before a visit to the Nurburgring, so we haven't done that either - it's kind of a recurring theme )

That's one awesome picture! Never saw it from that angle before. Now I know why the peleton cringes in fear whenever the Stelvio is scheduled in the Giro,

I am very late to the party here, but I have been to Northern Italy several times and my son lived there for a couple of years.

First tip: EVERY THING SHUTS DOWN FOR LUNCH!!!! If you are not in a tourist center or on their version of a freeway, 1100-1400 is shut down.

Second tip: Lane markings are optional - Italians drift as they drive.

Milan: Wonderful city. Duomo is worth the trip. St Bartholomew's church has a grotto of human bones (couple of blocks from the Duomo). The fort and museum about a mile from the Duomo is worth the time. Metro is great and user friendly. Hotels can be pricey. Ask about options on breakfast (sometimes it's a great deal, usually it is very expensive for very little).

Pisa: The leaning tower made me laugh. A monument to mediocrity! The baptistery leans the other way, and the church sinks in the middle. It's like you got caught in a Dali painting in real life.

Florence: Daughter studied art there for a semester. Museums are great. The David made my Jaw drop. The hands are slightly out of proportion, but the statue has captured the instant of time and tension between battle and realized victory. Simply amazing!

Genoa: It's a port city, and not much to recommend it, but I love it there. We went a couple of times. Enjoyed walking around the city. There is a great aquarium there with some type of Rays that you can pet.

Cinque terra(sp): My wife loved it, I've never been. She did complain some about how steep the hills were in the villages. The drive is supposed to be incredible.

Como: It's a lake. Sorry, this one did nothing for me, although it puts you right on the Swiss border - GO FOR IT!!! Find a mountain pass or two and ride them, you will never see mountains the same way again!

Venice: Tourist trap at this point, but you have to go anyway. It would be like driving through S. Dakota and not stopping at Wall Drug for chrissakes! The engineering is fascinating, and the buildings are interesting architecturally.

Both coasts (East and West) are beautiful drives. Roads are narrow, but for the most part decent. You will go through the little towns, but that adds to the charm of the trip.

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