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@b_lackey avatar
UTC

Member
1980 Vespa P200E
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Posts: 27
Location: Texas
 
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 27
Location: Texas
UTC quote
Hello! New to this forum but it came highly recommended. My father gave me a 1980 Vespa P200E for my birthday. He's had it for almost 15-20 years and never ran it. It just sat in his shed. A friend got it running and I've putted it around the yard a bit but the engine makes a noise that can only be described as a dry bearing type of sound. Other than that it just needs some minor tweaking here and there, some wiring and some new tires and it should be good to go. But I am concerned about that scritchy "dry" noise its making. Any ideas?
@tommylittlescooter avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
BV200, P200E (2),V90 and now a Big Ruckus
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Posts: 1668
Location: Mims, Florida USA
 
Molto Verboso
@tommylittlescooter avatar
BV200, P200E (2),V90 and now a Big Ruckus
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Posts: 1668
Location: Mims, Florida USA
UTC quote
check gear oil ?
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
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Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
no offense, but if its making a dry metal on metal noise i would not be running it at all. i mean, it has sat for 15 years.

do you know what you have got yourself into?

have any pics?
@smallstate avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1236
Location: Roseville, MI
 
Molto Verboso
@smallstate avatar
'66 Sears Allstate 788.94370 '65 Vespa V9A1T
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Posts: 1236
Location: Roseville, MI
UTC quote
tommylittlescooter wrote:
check gear oil ?
agreed. empty what was in there and fill it with SAE 30 non-detergent. the non-detergent part is important. it is a wet clutch, so you REALLY do not want to run the engine while dry (not that it is ever a good thing).
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
Hey Barry. Welcome to MV. I'm your friend who got it started. Astromags is my profile name.

Hey guys, Barry's scooter is the one I posted about having a "stuck" piston a couple of weeks ago.

Barry, I forgot to tell you, I did drain the old gear oil and replace it with SAE 30non detergent oil. It may be just a hair low, because I ran out. Just fill it until it over flows.
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
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Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
If it is dried out in there, what is the solution to get it lubed up?

Right now it's got a tank of premixed fuel in it. I put that in since we weren't sure if the oil pump is working. Will that oil eventually spread around in there or what?

Obviously we don't want to burn it up.
@xantufrog avatar
UTC

Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
 
Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Posts: 8891
Location: Atlanta, GA
UTC quote
astromags wrote:
If it is dried out in there, what is the solution to get it lubed up?

Right now it's got a tank of premixed fuel in it. I put that in since we weren't sure if the oil pump is working. Will that oil eventually spread around in there or what?

Obviously we don't want to burn it up.
The P200E is set up such that the gearbox bearings get bathed by the motor oil as it runs, so it's unlikely they are dry if you filled it up with oil and let it run.

The 2T oil actually doesn't get back into the gearbox to lube things. It stays in the top end (or is supposed to if the clutchside seal is good). It will lube the piston and the crankshaft bearings.

For the cause of the noise, then, it may be that rather than being dry, the bearings are pitted and/or worn.
UTC

Molto Verboso
px200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1269
Location: london
 
Molto Verboso
px200
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Location: london
UTC quote
Hello

The clutch plates are only splash lubed so may be dry, do you have the noise when the vehicle is on the stand or when moving.

Grumpy
@astromags avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
Grumpy wrote:
Hello

The clutch plates are only splash lubed so may be dry, do you have the noise when the vehicle is on the stand or when moving.

Grumpy
You can hear it while it's on the stand.
OP
@b_lackey avatar
UTC

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1980 Vespa P200E
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
UTC quote
New old Vespa
[size=12][/size]Thanks for all the info. The noise is always there while the engine is running and doesnt change when I engage the clutch.
The noise is a "scritchity-scritchity-scritchity" sound that increases in frequency with the RPM's. I'm beginning to think it is a corroded/pitted bearing. Any further info/suggestions will be appreciated.
@t5bitza69 avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
T5s
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Posts: 17005
Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@t5bitza69 avatar
T5s
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Location: The West Of Yorkshire ... Gods Country
UTC quote
swapsys
before you start pulling it apart go give ya dad a slap for not firing it up now n then ..... than give him a hug as thats one cool prezzy to get
OP
@b_lackey avatar
UTC

Member
1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
 
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
UTC quote
NAh...Not gonna do that. Pop's is in his 80's now(besides, he can probably still kick my tuckus). He picked up that scooter back when he thought his health and his legs would come back 100% so I'm not faulting him for not taking better care of it. He claims it was running whe he got it but I'd suspect he was using a broad definition of the term "running." Who knows, it might have been making that sound when he bought it. And yes it is just about the coolest present you could get.
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
Hey Barry, why don't you post a video of the engine running? Get down there and see if you can figure out exactly where it's coming from, and record a little, so the gurus can comment.
UTC

Molto Verboso
px200
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Location: london
 
Molto Verboso
px200
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Location: london
UTC quote
Hello

Long shot here check (carefully) if the fan is rubbing on the shroud.

Grumpy
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
Grumpy wrote:
Hello

Long shot here check (carefully) if the fan is rubbing on the shroud.

Grumpy
That would be cool.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
SawStop
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Location: Puyallup, WA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@quasi-moto avatar
SawStop
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UTC quote
Grumpy wrote:
Hello

Long shot here check (carefully) if the fan is rubbing on the shroud.

Grumpy
I'd check this first too, flywheel rubbing against the flywheel cover.
@typewritist avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
have had my share of faggy mopeds in my time
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Posts: 1286
Location: Surfhenge, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@typewritist avatar
have had my share of faggy mopeds in my time
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Location: Surfhenge, CA
UTC quote
Len Smith wrote:
I'd check this first too, flywheel rubbing against the flywheel cover.
Yeah that works. Remove the flywheel cover and kick the motor over with the spark plug wire off the plug (so it won't start). Have a friend there with you to try and listen for the noise and see if it can be identified to be in the cylinder or in the cases.

As far as a tank full of premix AND an autolube = bad. It won't run as you'll be super super rich.

Figure out if the autolube is working (hint - they usually are. Autolubes go bad about as often as the bones of wolly mammoths are found.)
OP
@b_lackey avatar
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1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
 
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
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Posts: 27
Location: Texas
UTC quote
Will check the flywheel more closely but I dont think thats it. I fired it up this evening and I did notice a slight noise when I engaged the clutch but it didnt change the scritchy noise. I shot some video of it running but I am functionally computer illiterate so I'll have to get the Mrs. to show me (again) how to post pics and video. Will probably be tomorrow.
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
hey! at least you got her participating! you gotta start somewhere. does she ride?
OP
@b_lackey avatar
UTC

Member
1980 Vespa P200E
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Posts: 27
Location: Texas
 
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
UTC quote
The Mrs. doesnt ride....Yet. She fell in love with a Honda Metropolitan and a hot pink new Vespa last weekend.
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
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Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
good luck...riding with my miss is but a dream. one day....
OP
@b_lackey avatar
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1980 Vespa P200E
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
UTC quote
This is the video of my P200E engine running and the funny sound it's making. Have not had a chance to pull the fan shroud off to see if anything is rubbing. I'm working this weekend and limited to 'before dark'. I'll try to take it apart and troubleshoot next weekend. But give her a listen, see what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDdBIctKb0c
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@astromags avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
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Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
She's looking pretty clean since the last time I saw her.
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@b_lackey avatar
UTC

Member
1980 Vespa P200E
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Posts: 27
Location: Texas
 
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
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Posts: 27
Location: Texas
UTC quote
Seriously, please watch the video of my Vespa's engine making that noise and let me know what you think. Thanks.
@jamesjohn avatar
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Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
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Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
crank bearings. time for a rebuild.
@jsharpphoto avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@jsharpphoto avatar
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
UTC quote
jamesjohn wrote:
crank bearings. time for a rebuild.
+1
@rickyk22 avatar
UTC

Hooked
2002 PX200
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Location: Long Island, NY
 
Hooked
@rickyk22 avatar
2002 PX200
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Location: Long Island, NY
UTC quote
I cant hear it and it seems like it is already diagnosed as crank bearings, but is it possible that the brakes are sticking a little and rubbing? I've had that happen in my car after it sat for a long time.

Again, I cant hear the video.
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@b_lackey avatar
UTC

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1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
 
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
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Location: Texas
UTC quote
Nope, definitely not the brakes. Makes the sound when on the stand with the engine running. Almost positive its the bearings. A machinist friend(a non scooterist) suggested that before tearing the engine apart, that I fill up the lower end with Slick-50 or some other super lube, drain it all out and see if it doesnt improve the sound. That perhaps the bearings are just varnished up instead of corroded from its long term humidity filled storage. Hmmm...I dont know about that. I'd like this scooter to be a dependable, possibly long distance ride. So I'm probably just going to bite the bullet and rebuild the lower end, and since it'll be apart why dont I just........
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
What better way to get to know your engine.

I'm going to getting a little more intimate with mine soon. I'm going to changing out the cruciform soon.
OP
@b_lackey avatar
UTC

Member
1980 Vespa P200E
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Posts: 27
Location: Texas
 
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@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 27
Location: Texas
UTC quote
Since I'm new to Vespas, I need to read up on what needs to be done before I get knee deep in this project and realize that I dont know what the heck I'm doing.
OP
@b_lackey avatar
UTC

Member
1980 Vespa P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 27
Location: Texas
 
Member
@b_lackey avatar
1980 Vespa P200E
Joined: UTC
Posts: 27
Location: Texas
UTC quote
Someone said " If you rebuild a carburetor or a VW engine enought times, the spare parts that you have left over after each rebuild will be enough to build another complete carburetor and VW engine!" I dont want that to be the case with this Vespa. All though another Vespa would be nice.
@ryulrae avatar
UTC

Member
PX208, (2006)
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Posts: 33
Location: Seoul, Korea
 
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@ryulrae avatar
PX208, (2006)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 33
Location: Seoul, Korea
UTC quote
I think you already have aswers and solution

I hope your project goes well
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
B. Lackey wrote:
Someone said " If you rebuild a carburetor or a VW engine enought times, the spare parts that you have left over after each rebuild will be enough to build another complete carburetor and VW engine!" I dont want that to be the case with this Vespa. All though another Vespa would be nice.
Well, after what happened to Paul today, you can see what kind of crazy stuff that can happen.
UTC

Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 140
Location: Up north
 
Hooked
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 140
Location: Up north
UTC quote
Like some others, I'm guessing the flywheel cover is rubbing on the flywheel.

Looks like the cover is slitghtly dented.

Shot bearings wouldn't be that loud.
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