Modern Vespa

Hi all,

For those of you with kick-only engines (or the ones who chooses to kick anyway), how many kicks does it typically take to get running, when starting up cold?

I generally need three kicks when cold (well, not really cold, more like summer garage temperature), but only one when warm. What affects this? Is it reasonable to hope for a first-kicker? Or is three kicks pretty much par for the course?

Thanks!

I really wouldn't worry about 1 to 3 its all basically the same... I mean mine is 3 kicks with the choke on and boom it starts take the choke off and I'm on my way... As long as its not 10 or 15+ kicks I feel that you have nothing to worry about!!!

Two kicks the first start of the day w/choke . One kick no choke the rest of the day.(1980 p200 og)

it depends on if you let your scooter run itself out of gas when you are done with your ride. unless i'm jumping right back on (15 minutes or less) i let it run its self out. If I'm coming right back, it's not even a full kick to get it started. IF i look at my kickstart and wink at it, it's enough to turn over.

If i run it out of gas, then start it up (after sitting from 20 minutes, to a few days) it's like this.

One slow soft kick to fill the cylinder with gas, then one good kick and it's running.

Same here more or less.

3rd kick + choke for the first of the day start, 1st kick, no choke when its warm....

Your scoot is fine. Timing and tuning are everything.

Sounds like things are pretty much in order then. Thanks!

This might be dull and technical, but what happens on that third kick that doesn't happen on the first two? Good spark? Combustion chamber free of crud from sitting? Fuel moving along through the carb?

it primes the cylinder mines about 4 or 5 but i got a huge open carb

Try never to let your'e scoot run out of gas you are making a hot spot . Fuel as you know is what lubes the cylinder . As for my Allstate first kick cold or hot . It's kinda more half a kick . Sorry I have nobody to show of to living on this island . Any less than four kicks I would be happy . Four or more kicks you should first check timing thats all it is most of the time .

This is just based on my understanding of how the engine works, not any "authoritative" source, but consider that the fuel air mixture first passes into the crankcase before getting to the combustion chamber. The volume of the crankcase is considerably greater than the volume of the combustion chamber.

The first two or three cycles of the engine. the combustion chamber is going to be fed a fuel/air mixture that is a combination of what was in the crankcase (unknown fuel/air ratio) and what is fed from the carb (metered fuel/air ratio), with the volume of the "unknown" considerably exceeding the volume of the "metered". Obviously, this will not be as "precise" a mixture at first. Until you get a mixture that is sufficiently "rich" to ignite, the engine will not start.

Does that sound reasonable?

At the risk of sounding argumentative, it's the oil that lubes the cylinder. On a pre-mix engine, fuel and oil are delivered together. On an auto lube engine, oil is delivered independent of fuel.

That said, however, you are spot on, and I have seen mechanics recommend revving the engine as you turn off the ignition to ensure a good shot of lubricant at shut down. I am not sure that such a practice is as important as it sounds, but I do agree that allowing the engine to turn over without any lubricant, even if just a few revolutions following fuel/oil starvation, is not an optimal practice. Especially since the odds are of a hotter combustion temperature in the leaning that fuel starvation can cause.

I run a cooler plug. So choke out 3 kicks..once it's warmed up...1 kick.

all of my vintage guru friends and certified tech's all run their motors out of gas at the end of a ride. I see the arguements on both sides, but since they're the ones I go to for help, i do it their way. Too each his own.

it all depends on the day ..... some mornings i give it w weak 1/4 kick and it fires up .... others i have to bump it down the street

my smallstate usually starts on the first kick. choked when cold. my V90 takes a few kicks when cold, then starts up in one kick once warm. my wife's starts on the first kick almost invariably when cold. it is harder to start when hot. weird, right?

If it's a "first kick contest" then I give it priming kicks with the key off to get the air/fuel into all parts.

If everything is set to go 1/4 kick is plenty

A kick is a kick, Patrick, they should all count! My T5 starts with one or two kicks when cold. One easy kick when hot. Except when I forget to put the spark plug cap on after a plug chop, then it takes about ten before I remember!

Cheers,

Bob

really makes you feel like an ass doesn't it....er, not that I've done that.

I found that this works for me too. A couple of lazy kicks without the ignition on, and then one with it on gets it running.
Somehow it's more satisfying to do it that way. You don't want to waste earnest kicks!
So I guess the first kicks primes the engine. Mostly gets some fresh fuel in there, I suspect.

key?

My P starts on 2-3 kicks when cold but has a hard time starting if I run a short errand. Any idea why it would do this?

kick it without choke or any gas either from the tap or twist grip. usually if you can get it the first time it will start right up. but if you try to prime it or half heart kick then you gotta give it more than just a few times.

0 kicks since I removed the kick start lever since on my set up I grind it when I kick it and I hate having to put it on the center stand, otherwise I have to lean it way the hell over the opposite side to kick it. I got about 140 psi Compression or so.

But a nice two-three step push and pop of the clutch in 2d works every time.


I guess it goes without saying that people should be following proper starting procedures:

1: any electrical switches on
2: Fuel tap on
3: choke on
4: Kick it without the throttle. Never use the throttle and choke at the same time. You can do what some do and use a small light "primer" kick at this time and then the real kick.

Repeat step 4, again, without giving it any gas, until it starts.

If it floods:

Turn off the gas and choke, open the throttle wide open, hold it wide open, and then kick and kick and kick. It will start. Then turn the gas back on.

Nice walkthrough

take the clip out of your choke knob then youll never be able to throttle it when choke is on or forget to push it back in .... as to keep choke on youll have to keep hold of it

just an idea .. it worked on mine

well in my cases its depend on the bike

my p series only need one kick with choke on while my vbb maybe need 3 kick as for my sprint i need to lean it right if i want to get first kick start if not 3 kick with choke in morning after that the whole 1/4 kick will do the trick

first kick with choke first start of the day
and the first kick w/o choke the rest of the day,
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