@birdsnest avatar
UTC

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vmb vse
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8866
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
@birdsnest avatar
VNB VSC VMA VSX - o9c vmb vse
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8866
Location: Hustletown, TX
UTC quote
ScootChef wrote:
cheetohh wrote:
Are there any reputable Dealers in the Retro business ? What about retrovespa ? They got a write up a while back in Scoot that wasn't entirely negative.
While we are on the subject, I'm curious about Greentree in Iowa. They have some beautiful pics on their site. They sell and service new mods too. Anyone here buy from them? I like what I see but I'm a vintage wanna/hope to be so I need help.
Yes, I bought a rally from Adam.

Regrettably, I can't recommend them with a ton of confidence. Maybe my issues are an aberration though. A statistical sample of 1 is pretty dubious, yeah?

That said, my rally 180 has/had multiple problems. Some of them pretty silly.
@els29 avatar
UTC

Enthusiast
2006 Vespa LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 50
Location: Portland, OR
 
Enthusiast
@els29 avatar
2006 Vespa LX150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 50
Location: Portland, OR
UTC quote
So I was recently offered this as a trade for my motorcycle I am selling. I have been scrambling to get as much information as I can on anything vespa in the past couple days and MAN am I glad. It is supposed to be a 1966 Vespa Super. (On a side note I looked through our emails and red flags came up. Its restored but he doesnt say by who, he says its listed on craigslist for 2500 but he could get 3500 in spring but in a later email he says he could get 2500 for it in the spring but that we could "talk". He wanted my motorcycle and cash...and he continues to email me.) This looks like a bodge...or am I totally wrong and this is a great restoration? Yellow feet, abundance of chrome front and rear, weird emblems placed on the sides. What do you all think?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@hp avatar
UTC

Addicted
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 837
Location: Seoul
 
Addicted
@hp avatar
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 837
Location: Seoul
UTC quote
els29 wrote:
This looks like a bodge...or am I totally wrong and this is a great restoration? Yellow feet, abundance of chrome front and rear, weird emblems placed on the sides. What do you all think?
Textbook bodge. Steer clear.
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 '72 DanMotor Super150 and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9875
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 '72 DanMotor Super150 and '04 Bajaj LML hybrid
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9875
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
You already suspect...

Have a look a this great collection of 74 pictures that show a lot of specifics of what to look for. For example:

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
@sixstitches avatar
UTC

Hooked
2006 GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 189
Location: SF inner sunset
 
Hooked
@sixstitches avatar
2006 GT 200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 189
Location: SF inner sunset
UTC quote
one on craigslist in SF Bayarea, looks like a dealer is selling

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/mcy/2141757778.html

lots of chrome, 2 tone, no yellow boots though. I am guessing it's one.
@nikos_veteran avatar
UTC

Hooked
VESPA PX 150 2005 MOD.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 189
Location: ATHENS GREECE
 
Hooked
@nikos_veteran avatar
VESPA PX 150 2005 MOD.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 189
Location: ATHENS GREECE
UTC quote
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

[img]http://i674.photobucket.com/albums/vv110/veganels/po
ssbodge.jpg[/img][/quote]

By far its a VIETKONG !!!
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1916
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1916
@kaos avatar
UTC

Hooked
'08 Voodoo Buddy 282cc Turbo, '73 Yamaha RD350, 1978 Honda NC50.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 349
Location: Portland, OR.
 
Hooked
@kaos avatar
'08 Voodoo Buddy 282cc Turbo, '73 Yamaha RD350, 1978 Honda NC50.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 349
Location: Portland, OR.
UTC quote
els29 wrote:
So I was recently offered this as a trade for my motorcycle I am selling. I have been scrambling to get as much information as I can on anything vespa in the past couple days and MAN am I glad. It is supposed to be a 1966 Vespa Super. (On a side note I looked through our emails and red flags came up. Its restored but he doesnt say by who, he says its listed on craigslist for 2500 but he could get 3500 in spring but in a later email he says he could get 2500 for it in the spring but that we could "talk". He wanted my motorcycle and cash...and he continues to email me.) This looks like a bodge...or am I totally wrong and this is a great restoration? Yellow feet, abundance of chrome front and rear, weird emblems placed on the sides. What do you all think?

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
I've seen that bike in person. The owner is a SLEAZE! He CLAIMS it was restored here in the states and that it runs great and whatnot, however he gets dodgy when you start asking questions about it. Its supposedly a Super 150, but when you ask why it has 10" wheels and a glove box, he clams up and says "Ohh some of them came that way stock". It makes funny noises while running. Sounds like bad bearings. Its bondo'd and bodged all over. Sure it LOOKS ok, but a lot of bodges do at first. Don't touch it!
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1916
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1916
@gaseous_clay avatar
UTC

Addicted
1978 P200E, 1963 GS 160
Joined: UTC
Posts: 663
Location: Decatur, GA
 
Addicted
@gaseous_clay avatar
1978 P200E, 1963 GS 160
Joined: UTC
Posts: 663
Location: Decatur, GA
@peterc avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2009 Vespa GTS 250, TBA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2272
Location: Green Valley, AZ
 
Ossessionato
@peterc avatar
2009 Vespa GTS 250, TBA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2272
Location: Green Valley, AZ
UTC quote
Re: Glue
thestigjjj wrote:
http://scootissimo.blogspot.com/2009/01/another-asian-scooter-saved.html
...and so, having spent countless hours and much cash on bringing the bodged engine up to running condition, James set out on his merry way, when he hit a pothole at 45 mph and the bodged body broke in half.
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
yea i read that too. looks like he did about $10k worth of machining, welding, parts, etc. still a bodge.
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1916
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1916
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
just a link is worthless to this thread. those things go useless in a matter of weeks. please re-post the pic and info.
@thewasp avatar
UTC

Hooked
Yes, I am a scooter model
Joined: UTC
Posts: 459
Location: Southwest United States
 
Hooked
@thewasp avatar
Yes, I am a scooter model
Joined: UTC
Posts: 459
Location: Southwest United States
UTC quote
Gaseous_Clay wrote:
http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=26059

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Lol that thing is hideous.
@kaos avatar
UTC

Hooked
'08 Voodoo Buddy 282cc Turbo, '73 Yamaha RD350, 1978 Honda NC50.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 349
Location: Portland, OR.
 
Hooked
@kaos avatar
'08 Voodoo Buddy 282cc Turbo, '73 Yamaha RD350, 1978 Honda NC50.
Joined: UTC
Posts: 349
Location: Portland, OR.
UTC quote
TheWasp wrote:
Gaseous_Clay wrote:
http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=26059

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Lol that thing is hideous.
Wow, is that thing even a Super? Its got parts from so many bikes, I can't tell!
UTC

Member
vespa 90
Joined: UTC
Posts: 16
Location: Taiwan
 
Member
vespa 90
Joined: UTC
Posts: 16
Location: Taiwan
UTC quote
Bodge or not a Bodge
Hello everyone...as you are talking about bodges...what to you think to this one. you have got be scared now.... only pic i have : i am just nearly getting my vespa 90 from Taiwan as i am living here. also take alook at the red, white and blue...bodge or not a bodge

[img] http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l638/deanbramley/?action=view&current=vespa_90.jpg [/img]

[img] http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l638/deanbramley/Vespa%20v90/?action=view&current=Vespa_Pic_1.jpg [/img]
⚠️ Last edited by deanbramley on UTC; edited 2 times
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
TL;DR
you messed up the post. just go back and edit a space between the addy and the []



thanks!
⚠️ Last edited by jamesjohn on UTC; edited 1 time
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
A friend spotted this on CL and was intwerested. I'm no good at spotting the intricacies of them. I just get suspicious of any 2 tone Vespa. What say you?

http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/2138832163.html
@jsharpphoto avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@jsharpphoto avatar
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
UTC quote
just viewing on my phone, but i think that super in houston might not be a bodge. the only thing bodgey is the two-toned paint job. It's still 6v, meaning it doesn't have an LML motor, it looks like it's still on 8's, and he mentioned the turn signals.

might be a good scooter.
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
JSharpPhoto wrote:
just viewing on my phone, but i think that super in houston might not be a bodge. the only thing bodgey is the two-toned paint job. It's still 6v, meaning it doesn't have an LML motor, it looks like it's still on 8's, and he mentioned the turn signals.

might be a good scooter.
Hmmm 8s huh? My wife is tiny. She may look good on that.
@hp avatar
UTC

Addicted
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 837
Location: Seoul
 
Addicted
@hp avatar
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 837
Location: Seoul
UTC quote
astromags wrote:
A friend spotted this on CL and was intwerested. I'm no good at spotting the intricacies of them. I just get suspicious of any 2 tone Vespa. What say you?

http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/2138832163.html
Looks kinda Bajaj-y, but sorta hard to tell from the pics. Basing that mostly on the fact that the rear looks rounded in the pic and the weird horn/badging.
@jsharpphoto avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@jsharpphoto avatar
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
UTC quote
hp wrote:
astromags wrote:
A friend spotted this on CL and was intwerested. I'm no good at spotting the intricacies of them. I just get suspicious of any 2 tone Vespa. What say you?

http://houston.craigslist.org/mcy/2138832163.html
Looks kinda Bajaj-y, but sorta hard to tell from the pics. Basing that mostly on the fact that the rear looks rounded in the pic and the weird horn/badging.
GOOD EYES!!!!

i totally missed the horn. Check it out. When I'm running through my bodge checklist, i look for asian things, often forgetting the bajaj possibilities.
@astromags avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@astromags avatar
'80 P200E, '76 Primavera 125 ET3. '59 Vespa 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 6897
Location: GT, Texas
UTC quote
That's why I threw it out there. It seemed like a really good deal. So I figured it was suspect.
UTC

nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
 
nothing at all
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9656
Location: westla
UTC quote
i'm upset at whats going on lately.......with all of this info and easy to find 'go to' reading on what to stay away from, i recently got wind of a nice guy that failed to do the research and found himself with a bodge in his driveway........as i write this there will be those who are not going to read it because of want and impatience to own a italian type scoot......a shame.....not blameing just a little frustrated that i get a call the day after the purchase and not the day before


opt out....rant over
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
jimmyb865 wrote:
just a little frustrated that i get a call the day after the purchase and not the day before


opt out....rant over
.
well put
UTC

Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
 
Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
UTC quote
TAP?
Greetings,
I've been looking at this TAP on ebay Italy and wondering about it's authenticity. Can anyone cast some light on this scooter?

I don't know a lot about Vespas, especially the lesser-known models.

These things are cool as heck; I know I'd love to ride a scooter with a damn cannon mounted on it. But I wouldn't want to pay 8K if it's not real.

"aeroib" on vesparesources.com said this (machine translated:)

"Reference: Vespa tap
is useless to look for differences ... you can not even talk about replication ..... here used a largeframe while the TAP is a wideframe!"


So....real? "Reproduction?"

Thanks for any clues you guys can render.





http://cgi.ebay.it/VESPA-TAP-T-A-P-FRANCESE-MILITARE-1956-FARO-BASSO-/120687880342?pt=Moto_e_Scooter&hash=item1c198ee896#ht_844wt_934

CIAO VENDO STORICA VESPA T.A.P MILITARE USATA NELLA GUERRA DELL'INDOCINA ,
PEZZO DA COLLEZIONE , SOLO 600 ESEMPLARI PRODOTTI .
X INFO MANDATEMI EMAIL VI RISPONDERO' IL PRIMA POSSIBILE .

ACCETTO PERMUTE CON ALTRE VESPE O CON UN FURGONE

LA VESPA E' A REGGIO EMILIA , HA DOCUMENTAZIONI SPAGNOLI IN REGOLA , . SALUTI LUCA
IL CANNONE E' RESTAURATO

EMAIL : mysweetvespa@hotmail.com

PREFERISCO IL RITIRO A REGGIO EMILIA DOVE SI
TROVA LA VESPA , MA CHIARO CHE POSSO ANCHE SPEDIRLA .

SALUTI E GRAZIE
LUCA
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@peterc avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
2009 Vespa GTS 250, TBA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2272
Location: Green Valley, AZ
 
Ossessionato
@peterc avatar
2009 Vespa GTS 250, TBA
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2272
Location: Green Valley, AZ
UTC quote
Definitely needs a custom Pirate Upholstery seat to be a halfway comfortable ride!
@jamesjohn avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
 
Ossessionato
@jamesjohn avatar
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4145
Location: Denton Tx.
UTC quote
that bike is not for riding. i mean, how many times are you gonna pass that same cop before he pulls you over to take a closer look. lol you need two certificates, one for the scoot and one for a concealed weapon.
@jsharpphoto avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Molto Verboso
@jsharpphoto avatar
1974 Vespa Sprint Veloce, 1963 VBB 180 Custom
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1380
Location: Dallas, TX
UTC quote
that thing is not legit, that's for sure.
@saturn avatar
UTC

Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 300
Location: Undisclosed
 
Hooked
@saturn avatar
AmeriBodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 300
Location: Undisclosed
UTC quote
not sure if it's a genuine TAP (I would assume they have some sort of documentation) but it's probably not a bodge at least

at the worst it's a custom mod to make a 150 into a TAP edition vespa

awesome though! one of the coolest things I've ever seen
UTC

Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
 
Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
UTC quote
jamesjohn, PeterC, I hear you. Riding the cannon barrel is insane!

I've included some photos I found of ostensibly real TAPs.

This auctioned one seems like it's a reproduction. A cool one, though. Is a reproduction worth 8K?

I wonder why in every ebay shot the suspension side of the front wheel is hidden? Is that a tell? Or maybe just a coincidence.

I have no idea what a legit one sells for. Anyone ever see a real TAP cross the block?

Thanks, everyone. I'd love to cruise it in Park Slope and Bedford Ave. and watch the yuppies and hipsters totally lose it when I rolled by on my "cute little Vespa"
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
 
Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
UTC quote
Looking close, the way the bumper flows into the front legs of the stand is very different and flimsier looking on the ebay item. Front rack brace, too.
@saturn avatar
UTC

Hooked
AmeriBodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 300
Location: Undisclosed
 
Hooked
@saturn avatar
AmeriBodge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 300
Location: Undisclosed
UTC quote
wheels on the ones I've seen are 8"

ebay one has 10" wheels

upgrade maybe?
@thewasp avatar
UTC

Hooked
Yes, I am a scooter model
Joined: UTC
Posts: 459
Location: Southwest United States
 
Hooked
@thewasp avatar
Yes, I am a scooter model
Joined: UTC
Posts: 459
Location: Southwest United States
UTC quote
Great sale in SoCal don't miss out! Take a plane, train, or even a bus to this one, but get there!



External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text


Spam emoticon
@jimh avatar
UTC

MV Saint
Haud yer wheesh't if ye cannae be nice
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3862
Location: Camden, Maine
 
MV Saint
@jimh avatar
Haud yer wheesh't if ye cannae be nice
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3862
Location: Camden, Maine
UTC quote
Another in NH.

http://nh.craigslist.org/mcy/2165627430.html

Why? Crying or Very sad emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon Crying or Very sad emoticon

Cheers
UTC

Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
 
Lurker
KZ750
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4
Location: Harlem, NYC
UTC quote
Sorry to ask
So, fellas, these previous two here are fakes, likely vietnamese, right?

I'm catching on.
@jimh avatar
UTC

MV Saint
Haud yer wheesh't if ye cannae be nice
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3862
Location: Camden, Maine
 
MV Saint
@jimh avatar
Haud yer wheesh't if ye cannae be nice
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3862
Location: Camden, Maine
UTC quote
Hi Mike, Yes mate, complete bodges

It's war right enough.

Cheers
@bar_italia_classics avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1974 Rally 200, 1977 Rally 200, 1958 LD125 Mk III, 1965 S.S. 180 and on and on
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1308
Location: Van Nuys, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@bar_italia_classics avatar
1974 Rally 200, 1977 Rally 200, 1958 LD125 Mk III, 1965 S.S. 180 and on and on
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1308
Location: Van Nuys, CA
UTC quote
It's misleading to call them fakes. They are not fakes, they are Italian-born scooters that have spent their lifetime being run into the ground in Southeast Asia, then cut into pieces, then pieced back together with extremely shoddy workmanship by people who are being paid a pittance and who don't have access to real scooter parts so they "make do" with the most dangerous homemade solutions. Then, those bikes are painted nice and shiny, adorned with cheap, shiny accoutrement and shipped out of that country (usually Vietnam) to more affluent countries where people are attracted to the shiny but pay no attention to what's really underneath, namely, a death trap in two-tone paint.
@jeremy_w avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
79 P200e, 81 100 Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1443
Location: Iowa
 
Molto Verboso
@jeremy_w avatar
79 P200e, 81 100 Sport
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1443
Location: Iowa
UTC quote
Bar Italia Classics wrote:
...painted nice and shiny, adorned with cheap, shiny accoutrement...
I couldn't resist. (4:05)

Factoid: this was filmed in my hometown of Forest City, Iowa. "Tony" in the video is Tony Dahle, I went to high school with him.

DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2025 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0259s ][ Queries: 4 (0.0074s) ][ live ][ 323 ][ ThingOne ]